Finish advice needed (staining/dyes + ash)

CTN

CTN

The Drama Dude
So I need to go about replicating this sorta thing, on an ash body, but using nothing but hand-rubbed finishing methods.

m2000-bb-full.jpg


Probably going to go with tru-oil after staining.

But I'm more concerned about the process of dying or filling the grain and sanding back and where in the whole process I should apply the blue stains and sand back or apply wash coats of alcohol or water to pull out some of the dye and create that smooth transition from lighter to darker blue.

Anyone have any advice?


And NO, I WILL NOT REVEAL ANY DETAILS OF THIS BUILD UNTIL I AM GOOD AND READY, DAMMIT!
 
Re: Finish advice needed (staining/dyes + ash)

shatap RALPH, you're gonna spoil the whole thing.
 
Re: Finish advice needed (staining/dyes + ash)

nah bro, i don't have that luxury any more since I don't live in that cushy apartment anymore. I uprooted, moved and downsized and now I have to make do with what I can.

At the moment, that means hand-rubbed stains, and either hand-rubbed poly or self-levelling tru-oil or danish oil or something similar. I've never worked with tru-oil before so I'm kinda interested to try it out seeing as it hardens and builds better than danish oil.
 
Re: Finish advice needed (staining/dyes + ash)

You will need a dark grainfill, maybe blue maybe black. Sand it back so only the grain has the colour.

Handrubbing isn't really going to get awfully close - but if you use a really weak dye for the middle, and concentrated for the edge - perhaps with a bit of black in too - (plus some feathering with a cloth soaked with the dye base) then you could approximate what is there.
 
Re: Finish advice needed (staining/dyes + ash)

Can't help with advise on the finish ( have no experience of my own ) but my oh my that is a beautiful Bass in the OP!

If you achieve that type of finish you must share the pics!

Good luck on your adventure!
 
Re: Finish advice needed (staining/dyes + ash)

There's a video someone posted on here of how to handrub a burst - I'm fairly certain I subscribed to it, so I wouldn't lose it. I'll see if I can find it.
 
Re: Finish advice needed (staining/dyes + ash)

jtougas said:
There's a video someone posted on here of how to handrub a burst - I'm fairly certain I subscribed to it, so I wouldn't lose it. I'll see if I can find it.
Click to expand...
I've seen enough vids on hand rubbing a burst. My question has more to do with the grain filling or dying. On flamed maple it's not an issue because it doesn't require grain filling but Ash does require some more thought since the pores of the grain are so deep.
 
Re: Finish advice needed (staining/dyes + ash)

Ah, okay.

Yeah, I'd choose a grain filler color to complement the finish you're going for - some of which are stainable. For that gorgeous beat you linked to, Iiiiii'd gooo... stainable. I think the black would create more contrast, wereas the grain lines actually blend in instead of popping out. One product recommended to me (just yesterday, actually), was TimberMate - however, I have not used it yet, and can't speak as to the quality of the recommendation (but the guitar that the guy had used it on was freakin' gorgeous).
 
Re: Finish advice needed (staining/dyes + ash)

My experience with tru oil was positive, but it does add a brownish hue. Not sure how well that would go with a blue stain.
 
Re: Finish advice needed (staining/dyes + ash)

jtougas said:
Ah, okay.

Yeah, I'd choose a grain filler color to complement the finish you're going for - some of which are stainable. For that gorgeous beat you linked to, Iiiiii'd gooo... stainable. I think the black would create more contrast, wereas the grain lines actually blend in instead of popping out. One product recommended to me (just yesterday, actually), was TimberMate - however, I have not used it yet, and can't speak as to the quality of the recommendation (but the guitar that the guy had used it on was freakin' gorgeous).
Click to expand...

I've used timbermate before. It isn't any better or worse than any other wood/grain filler that i've used.

At this point i'm trying to figure out gow to make a dark blue grain fill. I might have to use a blue dye base to thin out some grainfiller and see how that goes. I don't want to use black cuz i feel like it'll be too much contrast for the kind of look i'm going for.

dominus said:
My experience with tru oil was positive, but it does add a brownish hue. Not sure how well that would go with a blue stain.
Click to expand...

That's what i've read. Seeing as i'm kinda unsure about this whole process i'm planning on getting some ash planks to practice/experiment on before i committ to anything for the body itself.

Maybe a pastel light blue stain on the body will look darker blue once coated with tru oil.
 
Re: Finish advice needed (staining/dyes + ash)

Step 1) Spray it with nitro clear, Deft will do (so that the light field of the wood will protected during step 2)
Step 2) Rub in a black stained oil based grain filler, and wipe it smooth with a rag soaked in mineral spirits.
Step 3) Wait 24 hours and sand it smooth.
Step 4) Repeat steps 1,2, and 3, twice for alder or maple, and least 4 times or more with ash.
Step 5) prepare a mixture of alcohol based analyne dye of the chosen color.
Step 6) wipe the dye on the bare wood to the darkness chosen for the center. (probably at least twice)
Step 7) wipe it more darker toward the edge to create the burst effect. You can also dry sand it lightly to blend it a bit.
Step 8) Clear coat it using your chosen method. At least 3 coats.
Step 9) Carefully wet it sand from 1000 , 1500, to 2000 grit.
Step 10) Polish it by hand using a polishing compound.
 
Re: Finish advice needed (staining/dyes + ash)

What I do is wipe down the guitar with water to raise the grain then sand flat, do it again and again until adding water doesn't bring up more grain, sand flat once more and Let it dry out.
then add the grain filler (as Alex said use a dark one if you want the grain to stand out) I use an old credit card to scrape the grain filler sideways Into the grain. Let it dry and sand flat again so only the grain has the filler visable.
Do it again untill you think you have filled all the grain, then do it once more to be safe.

For the stain, I would go one shade lighter than you want the finished colour to be as tru oil does darken it some.

Taking time to make sure all the grain is filled is key when using tru oil (or Any finish) as the unfilled grain will soak up a LOT of tru oil resulting in a really dark and thick finish.

With tru oil I just wipe on a thin layer with a lint free cloth, leave for like 30 seconds then wipe it off leaving a very thin sheen of oil, let that dry for a few hours and do the same thing again and repeat untill you have a thick enough finish.
sanding between coats is not needed as tru oil melts with the previous coat and flattens itself out. Maybe a quick wet sand at the end if needed but a good buff usually does the trick.
 
Re: Finish advice needed (staining/dyes + ash)

Lake Placid Blues said:
Step 1) Spray it with nitro clear, Deft will do (so that the light field of the wood will protected during step 2)
Step 2) Rub in a black stained oil based grain filler, and wipe it smooth with a rag soaked in mineral spirits.
Step 3) Wait 24 hours and sand it smooth.
Step 4) Repeat steps 1,2, and 3, twice for alder or maple, and least 4 times or more with ash.
Step 5) prepare a mixture of alcohol based analyne dye of the chosen color.
Step 6) wipe the dye on the bare wood to the darkness chosen for the center. (probably at least twice)
Step 7) wipe it more darker toward the edge to create the burst effect. You can also dry sand it lightly to blend it a bit.
Step 8) Clear coat it using your chosen method. At least 3 coats.
Step 9) Carefully wet it sand from 1000 , 1500, to 2000 grit.
Step 10) Polish it by hand using a polishing compound.
Click to expand...

Dude I know you've been here a long ass time, so I'll try not to be completely rude, but did you not read my original post? I cannot/will not/lack the ability and space to spray ANYTHING. Therefore, I am not using lacquer at all.

jake_xms3_punk said:
What I do is wipe down the guitar with water to raise the grain then sand flat, do it again and again until adding water doesn't bring up more grain, sand flat once more and Let it dry out.
then add the grain filler (as Alex said use a dark one if you want the grain to stand out) I use an old credit card to scrape the grain filler sideways Into the grain. Let it dry and sand flat again so only the grain has the filler visable.
Do it again untill you think you have filled all the grain, then do it once more to be safe.

For the stain, I would go one shade lighter than you want the finished colour to be as tru oil does darken it some.

Taking time to make sure all the grain is filled is key when using tru oil (or Any finish) as the unfilled grain will soak up a LOT of tru oil resulting in a really dark and thick finish.

With tru oil I just wipe on a thin layer with a lint free cloth, leave for like 30 seconds then wipe it off leaving a very thin sheen of oil, let that dry for a few hours and do the same thing again and repeat untill you have a thick enough finish.
sanding between coats is not needed as tru oil melts with the previous coat and flattens itself out. Maybe a quick wet sand at the end if needed but a good buff usually does the trick.
Click to expand...


Cool, thanks. this is useful.
 
Re: Finish advice needed (staining/dyes + ash)

No need to be rude so won't be in reply. Yes, I did read your original post but it does not say that you can not spray anything at all. The only spraying I was referring to was to protect the light colored wood from the dark grain filler which would be a normal and the easy thing to do at that stage. If you can't spray a protective coat then I would suggest you apply a protective coat by some other means then.
 
Re: Finish advice needed (staining/dyes + ash)

Send me a PM.
Your section of Canadia is only about 10 hrs away.

PC
 
Re: Finish advice needed (staining/dyes + ash)

could you line out your bedroom with plastic sheets and spray in there?
 
Re: Finish advice needed (staining/dyes + ash)

You can blend a little black dye in with the blue dye before adding it to the grain filler. I used ColorTone waterbase grain filler and ColorTone concentrated liquid stains from Stew Mac.

I can't tell you how great it works because I've only done one application and didn't add enough black.

My goal is a very subtle burst with the intensity and shades of blues exactly like the bass in the OP.
 
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