First trip ever to Luthier

[bluezone]

I checked out a local luthier in regards to a fret problem on my Epiphone LP Custom. He's supposed to be of some renown. This was my first trip, ever to a luthier. Everyone claimed he was the best thing since sliced bread. He's even semi famous.
Short version is that the bone nut he made for me, can have a .009 feeler gauge fitted between the G string and the nut and all slots are square bottomed. I'll be kind an say this seems wide to me. The rest of the slots seem fine.
The high frets now seem higher after leveling, crown and polish. Last 3 fret ends in the cutaway were sharp enough to cut skin. I ended up cleaning them up myself.
Half a dozen frets, all over the neck, slightly teeter totter a straight edge. 5 other frets are roughly .003" higher than their nearest neighbors. Of these 5 frets, 3 are in body section of the neck. the other 2 are in the danger zone of the neck transition at the heal. I also suspect another fret is slightly high beside one of the high frets., just being masked. One other fret is in the range of .003" higher, but it is just on the edge of the fret board beside the low E string. so it is not actually interfering.
Ever thing else looks spectacular.
The luthier is calming they must of popped up after leveling.
The action has to be set higher than stock now. :feedback:

 

[AlexR]

Re: First trip ever to Luthier

Get him to fix it properly (on his cost this time).....the thing that should have happened the first time.

 

[bluezone]

Re: First trip ever to Luthier

He suggested i was being picky about the frets (just raise the height) and i hadn't yet discovered the problem with the nut.
I don't think he believes me and has not returned calls after the 1st phone conversation. So this is going to interesting when I show up at his door.

 

[bluezone]

Re: First trip ever to Luthier

By the way is .003" excessive? I just want clarification. Also making sure that the nut slots should only have .002-3" clearance.

 

[AlexR]

Re: First trip ever to Luthier

The job you asked for is wholly about being picky about frets. They should be perfectly level if you have asked for fret levelling, and you should be able to tell if frets have popped up as there will be gaps under them to the wood. They should be well shaped/smooth and well crowned if you have asked for crowning.
The whole purpose of you paying him is to be able to lower the action down theoretically better than what you started with, and the guitar play really well.

If you have paid with some form of card, then you might be able to reverse the charges if he refuses to do the job you paid him for.

 

[bluezone]

Re: First trip ever to Luthier

Cash unfortunately. Strange thing is he is saying that he would of noticed the high frets while leveling. He really sounded like he doesn't make that kind mistake. Though telling me to raise the action kind of counters that.
Thanks

 

[Clint 55]

Re: First trip ever to Luthier

Not all techs do perfect jobs. You're going to have to find someone else who is good at fret levels. Because he doesn't know what he's doing if there's buzzing all over the place at normal action. Not a single note buzzes on any of my guitars after my levels.

 

[bluezone]

Re: First trip ever to Luthier

A couple other quick questions. When measuring action at the 12 fret. The measuring gauge is placed on the fret and behind the string. Measuring from fret to bottom of the string. I work in a machine shop where and how you measure is everything. This should read 6/64 low E, correct.
I've have an old Epip LP junior that has had a lot of massaging. It's 4/64" low E and with out buzzes. Have i done alright?

 

[Clint 55]

Re: First trip ever to Luthier

Yes, that's the ballpark. From there adjust it to your liking.

 

[Jeff_H]

Re: First trip ever to Luthier

The only thing worse than a luthier who doesn't care about the quality of his/her work is a luthier who fails to admit error or blames the client. It's not any easier when the luthier is "highly regarded." Sometimes that can work to your disadvantage in situations just like this. I hope he will make things right. If not, don't hesitate to file a complaint with the BBB or leave an honest review of his work and response to your situation. It won't likely help resolve your situation, but it may help someone in the future or even get this person to correct the work, if he cares about the BBB or his online relationship.

You are not out of line with you expectations.

I hope you can resolve the situation without having to take it to another luthier. Best wishes.

 

[Ayrton]

Re: First trip ever to Luthier

Ugh, I hate reading stuff like this.

A luthier is someone who builds instruments from scratch. You took your guitar to a repair tech and it appears not a very good one.

I have been there and I feel for you. This is precisely why I started doing my own work

 

[Darg1911]

Re: First trip ever to Luthier

You brought an Epiphone to a "famous" cork sniffing "Luthier". He personally works on nothing less than a $2K+ Gibson. He lets his 6 year old do the work on anything less.

In all seriousness, no returned phone calls? Pay him a visit with the guitar. Maybe a polite (but firm) face to face conversation will prompt him to do the right thing.

 

[BriGuy1968]

First trip ever to Luthier

Don’t let the fact that he’s a well-thought-of luthier affect your judgment or your evaluation of the work performed. If he was a plumber and you asked him to fix a leaky faucet, but the faucet still leaked when he was done, you would expect him to complete the job you had asked him to do for the price he had quoted you. There is NO reason in the world why this is any different.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: First trip ever to Luthier

I am so sorry to hear of your experience. I hate to hear of incompetency of trained professionals.

If you wanted your fret and nut job to end up the way it actually did, you could have taken it to your next door neighbor or any kid down the street. But you didn't! You took it to, and paid money to, a "luthier" expecting him (by virtue of his expertise), to do a job much better than any untrained person could do. And you had a very reasonable right to expect that, but you didn't get that.

I do all of my own fret and nut work, have never been formally trained, and have never been paid to do it for anyone else. But the very first time I leveled my frets I had none of the issues you have had. It is not particularly difficult to do a good job. For a "luthier" it is everyday work to do a near-perfection job! There is no excuse for what he has done!

By removing metal from your frets and not leave them level, he has actually caused more harm than good. And a sloppy nut with squared slot bottoms??!! Absolutely NO excuse!!!!

Take your guitar back and talk to him face to face and tell and show him your concerns. Tell him you expect these problems to be corrected in a workman-like manner. And if it leaves your frets too low and/or your nut slots too deep (giving you buzzing at your first fret) tell him he needs to replace them and start over.

 

[orpheo]

Re: First trip ever to Luthier

it makes sense that not all frets have the same height; the fretboard might shrink and contort a bit and by leveling the frets you compensate for that.

However...

If the action has to go up so there is no buzz, the leveling job went all wrong. (funny by the way that most folk make such a big deal of crowning and polishing, but of the entire job, that only takes up 1/3 of the ENTIRE job!).

Flat bottoms of the nuts; some nut files out there, even sold by stewmac, aren't rounded at all, so no biggy there. I am a bit more take back by the width of the nut slot. But... and this is the most important thing, does the string buzz in the slot? You actually want the slot to be slightly wider than the string gauge itself so the string doesn't 'bind' in the nut. a .009 feeler gauge in inches, that's like 1/4 of a millimeter: that's really tiny! I wouldn't fret over that little a gap, to be honest (no pun intended).

What I feel went wrong is the tech didn't communicate his actions and set you up for expectations he could not meet. The botched fretjob is of course a big no-no, not to mention sharp frets (wtf?). He should correct that mistake.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: First trip ever to Luthier

Flat bottoms of the nuts; some nut files out there, even sold by stewmac, aren't rounded at all, so no biggy there.

What files are you referring to? I own both sets of nut slotting files for guitars sold by StewMac and all of them have rounded bottoms.

 

[Ben1962]

Re: First trip ever to Luthier

To be blunt you are a nobody to him. He figures he doesnt need you, you need him. I had a similar experience with a guy. I can tell a cork sniffing snob in about 2 seconds. No biggie, I just spend my money with people that want it. Sorry about your ordeal, he aint worth going to jail for tho. Good luck

 

[bluezone]

Re: First trip ever to Luthier

it makes sense that not all frets have the same height; the fretboard might shrink and contort a bit and by leveling the frets you compensate for that.

However...

If the action has to go up so there is no buzz, the leveling job went all wrong. (funny by the way that most folk make such a big deal of crowning and polishing, but of the entire job, that only takes up 1/3 of the ENTIRE job!).

Flat bottoms of the nuts; some nut files out there, even sold by stewmac, aren't rounded at all, so no biggy there. I am a bit more take back by the width of the nut slot. But... and this is the most important thing, does the string buzz in the slot? You actually want the slot to be slightly wider than the string gauge itself so the string doesn't 'bind' in the nut. a .009 feeler gauge in inches, that's like 1/4 of a millimeter: that's really tiny! I wouldn't fret over that little a gap, to be honest (no pun intended).

What I feel went wrong is the tech didn't communicate his actions and set you up for expectations he could not meet. The botched fretjob is of course a big no-no, not to mention sharp frets (wtf?). He should correct that mistake.

Everyone has given great input; thank you all; but i wanted to talk about this post specifically because it sort of hits the nail on the head.

The guitar was playable when it went in, but a touch on the higher than stock to be playable. I have a slightly pinched nerve, so the last two fingers on my fretting hand are bit weak and a bit numb. That is the key reason for having the work done. I don't like talking about my health on line but it is the important part of this. That and it's a lot of extra typing. The luthier was aware this is why the work was required.
I wanted the drop the action, because it makes it easier for me to play. I could of done this work myself, but wanted a really PRO fit and finish to the job and not possible with the tools i have at hand. The guitar is in very nice shape, with a straight neck. The finish part of the equation, I certainly got from this luthier. I took the guitar to guitar tech and he marveled at the finish on the frets and how straight the neck is. The luthier has scratch built guitars for peoples orders.

OK i just talked to the luthier. Apparently he doesn't have a nut file the same size as the strings he chose to use, but he will look at it and the other problems.
To answer the question. G string goes queer sounding sometimes because of the looseness.

 

[Ben1962]

Re: First trip ever to Luthier

"OK i just talked to the luthier. Apparently he doesn't have a nut file the same size as the strings he chose to use, but he will look at it and the other problems."
Hope it all works out for you. Gotta say the nut file stuff is a crock, pretty lame excuse. As long as he makes er right, guess thats all that matters. Sorry bout your hand, good luck to you.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: First trip ever to Luthier

OK i just talked to the luthier. Apparently he doesn't have a nut file the same size as the strings he chose to use, but he will look at it and the other problems.

Are you kidding me?!!! A luthier who builds guitars and repairs guitars for pay and he doesn't have a complete set of nut files?!!! That's one of the first set of tools that a luthier acquires before he begins work-for-hire. He's giving you a bunch of bull for sure!

But even in the unlikely case that he didn't have the exact right-sized file for your particular string size (and if this is so, why did he choose to install those strings?), it is not rocket science to know how to manipulate a file to create a proper sized slot. For example; if you have a .017 G string but he only has a .013 nut file, you can easily rotate the file slightly while filing back and forth to create a perfect .017 slot with a rounded bottom...even with a square file.

But using square files for nut slots is NOT something that a real luthier would do (and I use the term "luthier" very loosely in his case).