Fishman Fluence Modern Humbucker -any updates, it's been a couple of years

[GilmourD]

Re: Fishman Fluence Modern Humbucker -any updates, it's been a couple of years

Just think how beautiful that guitar would sound with a set of Seth Lovers or 59s it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1l-sHxFKmWA&feature=related

I only say that because you have a grand total of six posts, all of them in this thread, and four of them have been dogging the Fluence pickups. Yes, this is the Seymour Duncan User Group Forum, but that's no reason to disrespect another company's product unnecessarily. I kinda feel like you came here with the sole intent to dog the Fluence pickups.

 

[stancaster]

Re: Fishman Fluence Modern Humbucker -any updates, it's been a couple of years

I only say that because you have a grand total of six posts, all of them in this thread, and four of them have been dogging the Fluence pickups. Yes, this is the Seymour Duncan User Group Forum, but that's no reason to disrespect another company's product unnecessarily. I kinda feel like you came here with the sole intent to dog the Fluence pickups.

I came here because it is the only forum on the WEB with an active discussion of Fishman Fluence pickups. I was interested in the concept and wanted to find out as much as I could about the pickups because I was considering buying a set if they really were all that they claimed to be. I have not seen or read on the WEB or on this forum any testimonials from "long term" owners regarding how pleased they are with the pickups. The demos I have heard do not have the tonal quality that I expected. I came to a conclusion and posted it on my third post. My forth and fifth posts were responses. My sixth post was probably unnecessary but I was somewhat angered by the "attacks" I received in what I believe was a fair and honest statement of my opinion. I never intended and will not bash Fishman. But I will not be prevented from supporting my opinion if necessary.

 

[frankfalbo]

Re: Fishman Fluence Modern Humbucker -any updates, it's been a couple of years

Hello Stancaster nice to meet you. What we mean by ideal, is that there are physical realities in magnetic pickup design that Fluence coils are not bound to. Obviously your favorite PAF from a Thursday afternoon in June of 1959 might not be my favorite, one from a Monday morning in August.

But the simplest way I can describe it is that many of us like the clarity of an underwound, AND the muscle and output of an overwound or mid-wind. Maybe the sweetness of a degaussed magnet but the crisper low mids of a fully charged, etc.

These are all things that, if you wind a PAF to excel in one area, it tends to detract from another area. More output means less highs and clarity. It's a physical occurrence, you can try to compensate for it but it's a mechanical reality.

So rather than think that Fishman is claiming to have found THE best PAF and cloned it, perhaps it's easier to think of it as a composite of all the salient features of different PAF's that we love for some reason or another.

As for your continued and progressively less subtle accusations of snake oil, I guess we'll have to wait until you've tried them for yourself, rather than assessing YouTube videos, to find out what you really think of these pickups. But I'm a pickup junky, that's why I'm in this business. I'm happy to make my guitars with Antiquities or 36th Anniversary PAF's, Lollars, BKP, whatever is best for the customer.

 

[GilmourD]

Re: Fishman Fluence Modern Humbucker -any updates, it's been a couple of years

I came here because it is the only forum on the WEB with an active discussion of Fishman Fluence pickups. I was interested in the concept and wanted to find out as much as I could about the pickups because I was considering buying a set if they really were all that they claimed to be. I have not seen or read on the WEB or on this forum any testimonials from "long term" owners regarding how pleased they are with the pickups. The demos I have heard do not have the tonal quality that I expected. I came to a conclusion and posted it on my third post. My forth and fifth posts were responses. My sixth post was probably unnecessary but I was somewhat angered by the "attacks" I received in what I believe was a fair and honest statement of my opinion. I never intended and will not bash Fishman. But I will not be prevented from supporting my opinion if necessary.

No, of course you're allowed to support your opinion, but you're an unknown entity posting with some vitriol, so admittedly it threw me off a bit as to your intent.

I just wanted to get that straight, and I'm glad we cleared that up. Unfortunately this forum (and many others) has a history of new users signing up just to stir the pot on certain subjects.

I have to admit, I didn't get to listen to your two clips comparing the two pickups. I will do so shortly. I do wonder, are they apples to apples (same amp, guitar type, etc.)?

Sent from my VK810 4G using Tapatalk

 

[GilmourD]

Re: Fishman Fluence Modern Humbucker -any updates, it's been a couple of years

OK, just watched the two videos and I'm pretty sure if you gave both guys the same pickups they would sound completely different.

If we assume that the Seth Lover set is pretty close to real '59 PAFs, then here ya go.

 

[stancaster]

Re: Fishman Fluence Modern Humbucker -any updates, it's been a couple of years

Hello Stancaster nice to meet you. What we mean by ideal, is that there are physical realities in magnetic pickup design that Fluence coils are not bound to. Obviously your favorite PAF from a Thursday afternoon in June of 1959 might not be my favorite, one from a Monday morning in August.

But the simplest way I can describe it is that many of us like the clarity of an underwound, AND the muscle and output of an overwound or mid-wind. Maybe the sweetness of a degaussed magnet but the crisper low mids of a fully charged, etc.

These are all things that, if you wind a PAF to excel in one area, it tends to detract from another area. More output means less highs and clarity. It's a physical occurrence, you can try to compensate for it but it's a mechanical reality.

So rather than think that Fishman is claiming to have found THE best PAF and cloned it, perhaps it's easier to think of it as a composite of all the salient features of different PAF's that we love for some reason or another.

As for your continued and progressively less subtle accusations of snake oil, I guess we'll have to wait until you've tried them for yourself, rather than assessing YouTube videos, to find out what you really think of these pickups. But I'm a pickup junky, that's why I'm in this business. I'm happy to make my guitars with Antiquities or 36th Anniversary PAF's, Lollars, BKP, whatever is best for the customer.

Good to meet you frankfalbo. I guess since it sounds like you are an insider of sorts you can answer my question. How is it possible that Fishman brought this new technology to the point of supposedly creating pickups => existing coil wound pickups so quickly? I guess I should apologize for the fish oil business it was just those posters got me angry. Not replying with logic just jabs. Well, someday I may find a music store that has a set of classics in a Les Paul for me to try out. Until then I will remain a skeptic because the youtube clips sure do make a convincing argument against the Fishman Fluence.

 

[frankfalbo]

Re: Fishman Fluence Modern Humbucker -any updates, it's been a couple of years

I think it depends on your definition of quick. I am in product development, and part of the R&D team for Fluence. Prior to that I was VP of Product Development for Seymour Duncan. But prior to THAT I was already a long time forum member. So my participation here (even though I've moved on from Duncan) is to help people in general which of course gets me involved in all the Fluence threads one way or another since I've got the deepest knowledge of it.

Sorry to digress but what I mean by that is, between myself and others on the Fluence team, there are veterans with 15-40 years of history in the music and pickups business EACH. So is it a 3-year R&D project? Or is it a 30 year R&D project? Really it's a little of both. To say it happened quickly is just to say that these are our first offerings.

If you think a company's first offerings are somehow less refined than subsequent offerings, just take a look at a 1970's butyrate JB, or a 1950's fender or Gibson pickup (or guitar for that matter) Just because it's the first batch of products doesn't mean it's not fully developed. I will say that the R&D process at Fishman has been very efficient, lots of high-powered engineers working magic together, etc. But no, as a product development guy I can say this product is completely and adequately developed.

 

[Luke Duke]

Re: Fishman Fluence Modern Humbucker -any updates, it's been a couple of years

Just think how beautiful that guitar would sound with a set of Seth Lovers or 59s it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1l-sHxFKmWA&feature=related

I too was a skeptic. Fishman's slogan is great "what you hear is true". There is a great clarity that you only get from the best pafs, in voice 1. In voice 2 you get an idealized neck p'up that is somewhere between a t-top and and PAF and in the bridge a JB that can't help but make you smile.

Just for your own context, Frank actually worked for Duncan for a number of years and developed the P-Rail. He left Duncan and started his acoustic company before starting to do somewhere for Fishman.

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: Fishman Fluence Modern Humbucker -any updates, it's been a couple of years

Eggles are 22 or 24 fret, right?

My example is 24-fret, rosewood fingerboard, maple neck set into an alder body. Schaller double locking vibrato.

Good news: Apparently, my pickup order has been despatched. It is due to arrive tomorrow.
Bad news: The pickups weren't due 'til Friday or Monday. The Eggle guitar is not really ready to receive them.

As an interim measure, I do have other guitars with the three-pin Quik Connect wiring harness. I could probably jerry rig something and test drive the pickups in an LTD EC-401W, Ibanez RG321MHBK or a HH Bitsacaster.

I'll be curious to hear what you think. I haven't tried them in a dbl cut solid body yet. I imagine the hot rod bridge tone will sound killer though.

That would be nice.

Rest assured. Much as I respect Frank Falbo and his designs, if I think that any pickup blows chunks, I will not be afraid to say so.

 

[stancaster]

Re: Fishman Fluence Modern Humbucker -any updates, it's been a couple of years

OK, just watched the two videos and I'm pretty sure if you gave both guys the same pickups they would sound completely different.

If we assume that the Seth Lover set is pretty close to real '59 PAFs, then here ya go.

Actually even in that short little clip I thought the 59s sounded better. I don't know how to explain it they just had a fatter sound that was like more in your face without being in your face. Thanks for posting it was a really good clip.

 

[GilmourD]

Re: Fishman Fluence Modern Humbucker -any updates, it's been a couple of years

Actually even in that short little clip I thought the 59s sounded better. I don't know how to explain it they just had a fatter sound that was like more in your face without being in your face. Thanks for posting it was a really good clip.

But they're surprisingly similar sounding. I've definitely heard traditionally made PAF replicas that sound less like the real '59 and command a higher dollar than the Fluence Classic set.

 

[leevc5]

Re: Fishman Fluence Modern Humbucker -any updates, it's been a couple of years

Received a reply to my inquiry on the Gibson Forum. Senior member with a PRS loves the Fishman Fluence:
http://forum.gibson.com/index.php?/topic/130219-anybody-try-fishman-fluence-humbuckers/page__pid__1766326#entry1766326

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: Fishman Fluence Modern Humbucker -any updates, it's been a couple of years

With respect, that owner's modified PRS guitar is an SE Bernie Marsden. Almost any American-made pickup would be an improvement over the stock MIK offerings.

 

[frankfalbo]

Re: Fishman Fluence Modern Humbucker -any updates, it's been a couple of years

Haha true, those G&B humbuckers in the SE models are not that great. Then again he doesn't say they're better than the stock PRS SE pickups, he says:

They're fantastic. Don't think I've ever been happier with a set of humbuckers, ever.

Which would imply that he has indeed played other humbuckers throughout his lifetime...

 

[Masta' C]

Re: Fishman Fluence Modern Humbucker -any updates, it's been a couple of years

That Greg Koch demo is great. I realize we're dealing with YouTube videos, but I agree that the *real* '59 appeared to have a slightly bigger, more open and more dynamic sound than the Fluence. However, not by much and it wasn't a demo using the same guitar both times, which does make me wonder...if the Fluence pickups were put into the *real* '59, how close would they sound?

I think bang-for-the-buck, those looking for a quality PAF tone with greater flexibility will find the Fluence pickups tough to beat!

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: Fishman Fluence Modern Humbucker -any updates, it's been a couple of years

My Fluence Classic humbuckers arrived this afternoon. I decided to test drive them in my LTD EC401W.

For my tastes, the single most critical feature in the system is the Tilt switching. It takes off that nasty, overly glassy "active" edge that seems to be present in every single Greg Koch Fluence pickup demonstration video. (I used to wonder whether this was a camera mic aberration but, in the Fishman versus vintage piece video further up this page, the edginess ought to afflict both guitars. Clearly, it does not.) Right now, I cannot imagine using the neck/Rhythm pickup without the Tilt engaged.

 

[frankfalbo]

Re: Fishman Fluence Modern Humbucker -any updates, it's been a couple of years

Yeah it's totally a personal preference thing, usually I like it straight up. I like the top end pre-dirt but that's how I play. Greg is the same way as sometimes his Strat demos can sound very crystalline, especially how he combo-picks. Whereas warm vintagey Strat guys like the HF tilt on usually.

 

[B2D]

Re: Fishman Fluence Modern Humbucker -any updates, it's been a couple of years

Frank - will there be any planned ability in the future for players to be able to "tweak" the sounds in their Fluence pickups via mini-pots or terminals or something of that nature?

The new Petrucci wah pedal has that feature inside the pedal casing. I think that'd be amazing if there were options like that. The need to actually change pickups would be so diminished. Need more output and bass and more mid peak? Open up the control cavity and tweak away!

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: Fishman Fluence Modern Humbucker -any updates, it's been a couple of years

For some users of the Classic Humbucker, F-spacing of the polepieces on the bridge/Treble position pickup would be advantageous.

 

[darthphineas]

Re: Fishman Fluence Modern Humbucker -any updates, it's been a couple of years

Tweaking is a cool idea. Trim pots for things like maybe the EQ or the gain, for example.

I did see there is a 6-string version of the Stephen Carpenter model available via places like GC and MF, so it's cool that more options are opening up. It looks like a limited run.

It's one of the pressing question that I have, and I brought it up just a few days ago to one of the guys from Fishman...as I'd be interested in a bridge model with something that begins with the hot-rod (Classic V2) and can go to the Modern Alnico V1. And since the wiring does allow for splitting to either coil, I'd be interested in an option for parallel mode. It's my understanding that they are looking at other voicings and options, which I'm sure depends a lot on market demand.