I just bought a '86 Mesa/Boogie Mark III and re-tubed the preamp section with Mesa/Boogie 12AX7s. I'm getting some pretty sweet sounds out of it though it sounds pretty ugly when I turn the lead drive up near 10, similar to what a squier 15 watt champ amp sounds on the distortion channel. I want a really tight and focused sound!(I'm using a Ibanez S2170FW with stock Dimarzio design pups.)
flabby distortion?
- Thread starter Psyence88
- Start date
suislidE03
New member
Re: flabby distortion?
EMG 81 or a blackout. I just got a DC-5 head and im experiencing similar sounds, but not as bad as it seems for you.. just a little loose on the lows. Im about to install the blackout bridge in my Jackson to see if that does the trick.
EMG 81 or a blackout. I just got a DC-5 head and im experiencing similar sounds, but not as bad as it seems for you.. just a little loose on the lows. Im about to install the blackout bridge in my Jackson to see if that does the trick.
Re: flabby distortion?
So it is the pickups that might be causing it? I read somewhere before that they can lose focus/clarity under high gain like that... What about just high gain passive pups? Like invaders, custom 5...etc?
I figured the stock pups in my Ibanez were pretty decent... I'll get an overdrive and try increasing the gain via pedal as well!
So it is the pickups that might be causing it? I read somewhere before that they can lose focus/clarity under high gain like that... What about just high gain passive pups? Like invaders, custom 5...etc?
I figured the stock pups in my Ibanez were pretty decent... I'll get an overdrive and try increasing the gain via pedal as well!
Loserchief
SwingingIdiot
Re: flabby distortion?
Stock Ibanez pups are pretty loose imo. You should really look tino stuff like the Full Shred,Distortion, Evolution and so on for more tightness and clarity.
Also meas in general aren't the tightest of amps and taking the gain up to full will result in farting out. Backing the gain and boosting the amp with an OD with the gain low and the volume high will result in a tighter and clrear sound.
Stock Ibanez pups are pretty loose imo. You should really look tino stuff like the Full Shred,Distortion, Evolution and so on for more tightness and clarity.
Also meas in general aren't the tightest of amps and taking the gain up to full will result in farting out. Backing the gain and boosting the amp with an OD with the gain low and the volume high will result in a tighter and clrear sound.
L
Lewguitar
Guest
Re: flabby distortion?
That's right...especially the part about turning the bass down and mids up. "Muddy", IMO, often means to much bass.
Many players are uncomfortable using enough treble to cut through and also use way to much bass in an attempt to sound full and warm - and the result is that their tone is muddy and indistinct.
Turn up the treble and mids and turn the bass down.
Lew
That's right...especially the part about turning the bass down and mids up. "Muddy", IMO, often means to much bass.
Many players are uncomfortable using enough treble to cut through and also use way to much bass in an attempt to sound full and warm - and the result is that their tone is muddy and indistinct.
Turn up the treble and mids and turn the bass down.
Lew
Re: flabby distortion?
I actually have bass turned on zero now, when I dial bass up even like past 2 or 3 it gets really freaken flabby, so I just keep it on zero and let the EQ do it's job.
I'm still fairly new to tube amps(I just sold my solidstates) though I am learning pretty fast. Correct me if I'm wrong, but fronting a amp with a pedal with clean boost will make it louder as well as more distorted right? Is there such a way to drive the amp more without the volume increase and coloration of pedal overdrive/distortion? I don't have a problem with doing it, but I really like the distortion my amp gives me!
So gathering from what everyone is saying, higher gain pups would work much better and be more focused and clear under high gain situations, fronting the amp with a clean boost pedal or distortion will also make it better, turning down bass(Especially on this amp) would make it tighter, hmm, this sounds about good.
I'm using 6L6 and EL34 tubes with 5 mesa boogie preamp tubes(I just bought them, that's all they had at the local guitar store and the tubes were crapping out pretty bad before hand.) Any suggestions on tubes perhaps?
I actually have bass turned on zero now, when I dial bass up even like past 2 or 3 it gets really freaken flabby, so I just keep it on zero and let the EQ do it's job.
I'm still fairly new to tube amps(I just sold my solidstates) though I am learning pretty fast. Correct me if I'm wrong, but fronting a amp with a pedal with clean boost will make it louder as well as more distorted right? Is there such a way to drive the amp more without the volume increase and coloration of pedal overdrive/distortion? I don't have a problem with doing it, but I really like the distortion my amp gives me!
So gathering from what everyone is saying, higher gain pups would work much better and be more focused and clear under high gain situations, fronting the amp with a clean boost pedal or distortion will also make it better, turning down bass(Especially on this amp) would make it tighter, hmm, this sounds about good.
I'm using 6L6 and EL34 tubes with 5 mesa boogie preamp tubes(I just bought them, that's all they had at the local guitar store and the tubes were crapping out pretty bad before hand.) Any suggestions on tubes perhaps?
James Rock
New member
Re: flabby distortion?
How much gain are you using on the amp?
It depends on the gain if you are medium gain or higher (I'm talking distortion levels not amount of 'proper' gain which means volume) then a volume boost before will just boost distortion. Alot of metal bands use TS-808/TS-9s or similar before there high gain stacks to tighten it up.
How much gain are you using on the amp?
suislidE03
New member
Re: flabby distortion?
^ that could easily be it also. About the high output pickup/pedal thing, if you really like the sound the amp gives by itself, a really high output pup can almost double as having a pedal for a boost. Thats why I mentioned the EMG 81 or the blackout. Both are high output, but the 81 has a real tight low end, and will guarantee tighter lows from the amp. A pup change from passive to active is pretty intensive though, and costly if you pay someone else to do it. I guess try the pedal route first. I recommend the TS-9 or the MXR ZW44. The MXR will sound more transparent IMO.
^ that could easily be it also. About the high output pickup/pedal thing, if you really like the sound the amp gives by itself, a really high output pup can almost double as having a pedal for a boost. Thats why I mentioned the EMG 81 or the blackout. Both are high output, but the 81 has a real tight low end, and will guarantee tighter lows from the amp. A pup change from passive to active is pretty intensive though, and costly if you pay someone else to do it. I guess try the pedal route first. I recommend the TS-9 or the MXR ZW44. The MXR will sound more transparent IMO.
Re: flabby distortion?
I realize this post is old but I bet many people still come across it in google searches!
Here's my definitive advice on the Mark III (Blue/Red Stripe):
1. Never set the bass above 2 or 3. If you want a bass boost use the far left EQ slider. Also the Presence control is the second strongest control of the amp. It's the last one in the chain. I run mine around 4. If you put it higher you hear more highs, if you take it lower you hear more lows. Now the treble control, the higher it is less bass you will hear. Treble is the strongest control.
2. Run the Master volume and the Lead Master at about the same setting, perhaps the master a hair higher.
3. Pickups. I use Duncan Distortion and JB. I also use EMG81. You might want to adjust the low E string peg down a half a turn. If it's really close to the string it won't be articulate and the bass note will mud and flub. They make note of doing that in the manual.
4. I always use Mesa tubes. I've tried lots of tubes and I stick with Mesa's. Remember the Mesa tube wear guide. These amps are top fuel dragsters and they burn through tubes. If you play a lot you'll need to replace the power tubes every 1 - 1.5 yrs and preamp tubes every 2 - 3 years. Now the preamps tubes you shouldn't replace unless you know they are going microphonic, weak, or problematic. I replace V1 more often than the other tubes as it's most critical. V4 is the reverb driver and can probably hang in there a long time. If the amp looses its luster replacing V1 has helped bring the tone back. If it's not back then keep going and replace V2, v3. Usually V1 and a power tube change bring the amp back to life for me. Especially so on my .50 caliber with EL84s.
Now if you're still experiencing bass / flabby / flubby issues then you may want to send it back to Mesa for an overhaul. And they do overhaul it by checking every stage. Circuit board traces may break over time and cold solder joints may appear as well. It's much more thorough than an authorized tech performs. Plus the original guy who worked on them in the late 80s is still the guy that repairs them today! The amp is over 20 years old. The electrolytic caps should be replaced. If the is noisy and you can hear a bit of 60 cycle hum then that's a sure sign. The amp should be dead quiet. This amp is well worth the time, effort, and repairs in my opinion! It was just the sound I was looking for. Oh and if you use the R2 channel often, have Mesa install the R2 mod. Note you will see other forums that say it is done with 250k pot, it's not, its more like 10k or 20k. The 250k doesn't taper the range well.
My Settings: (I play mostly 80s metal, take it for what it's worth)
Volume (pull) 7-8
Treble (pull) 7
Bass 2.5
Mid 5
Master 2
Lead Drive 7-8
Lead Master 2
Reverb 5-7
Presence 4
EQ V-pattern starting from the middle lines and up (middle slider is actually on the middle line or a hair above. Bass (far left) and treble (far right) up a tinge from the top
I realize this post is old but I bet many people still come across it in google searches!
Here's my definitive advice on the Mark III (Blue/Red Stripe):
1. Never set the bass above 2 or 3. If you want a bass boost use the far left EQ slider. Also the Presence control is the second strongest control of the amp. It's the last one in the chain. I run mine around 4. If you put it higher you hear more highs, if you take it lower you hear more lows. Now the treble control, the higher it is less bass you will hear. Treble is the strongest control.
2. Run the Master volume and the Lead Master at about the same setting, perhaps the master a hair higher.
3. Pickups. I use Duncan Distortion and JB. I also use EMG81. You might want to adjust the low E string peg down a half a turn. If it's really close to the string it won't be articulate and the bass note will mud and flub. They make note of doing that in the manual.
4. I always use Mesa tubes. I've tried lots of tubes and I stick with Mesa's. Remember the Mesa tube wear guide. These amps are top fuel dragsters and they burn through tubes. If you play a lot you'll need to replace the power tubes every 1 - 1.5 yrs and preamp tubes every 2 - 3 years. Now the preamps tubes you shouldn't replace unless you know they are going microphonic, weak, or problematic. I replace V1 more often than the other tubes as it's most critical. V4 is the reverb driver and can probably hang in there a long time. If the amp looses its luster replacing V1 has helped bring the tone back. If it's not back then keep going and replace V2, v3. Usually V1 and a power tube change bring the amp back to life for me. Especially so on my .50 caliber with EL84s.
Now if you're still experiencing bass / flabby / flubby issues then you may want to send it back to Mesa for an overhaul. And they do overhaul it by checking every stage. Circuit board traces may break over time and cold solder joints may appear as well. It's much more thorough than an authorized tech performs. Plus the original guy who worked on them in the late 80s is still the guy that repairs them today! The amp is over 20 years old. The electrolytic caps should be replaced. If the is noisy and you can hear a bit of 60 cycle hum then that's a sure sign. The amp should be dead quiet. This amp is well worth the time, effort, and repairs in my opinion! It was just the sound I was looking for. Oh and if you use the R2 channel often, have Mesa install the R2 mod. Note you will see other forums that say it is done with 250k pot, it's not, its more like 10k or 20k. The 250k doesn't taper the range well.
My Settings: (I play mostly 80s metal, take it for what it's worth)
Volume (pull) 7-8
Treble (pull) 7
Bass 2.5
Mid 5
Master 2
Lead Drive 7-8
Lead Master 2
Reverb 5-7
Presence 4
EQ V-pattern starting from the middle lines and up (middle slider is actually on the middle line or a hair above. Bass (far left) and treble (far right) up a tinge from the top
Chickenwings
Alnico 6/8
King IzzO)))
Ultimate Kitten Puncher
Re: flabby distortion?
First thing you need to do is get the manual for the amp and read the section on settings. I don't know why, but the actual useable range is very small on some of the controls, and they knew that.
On my MarkIII the bass is never over 1 with the shift pulled, and I don't run volume 1 over 7.5 or so, ever. Same with the lead. You might get it to sound the way you want at low volumes with extreme settings, but once you crank it the amp isn't gonna like being set that way and will squeal and flub. That said, Mark III's can get pretty nasty and are really tight, so you *could have a problem with the amp, but I'd guess it's your settings. Get the manual, start with the recommended settings and tweak in very small increments from there, you'll be rewarded, they're awesome amps. A tubescreamer type OD will push it over the top if you still need more drive.
And no, you don't have to use Mesa tubes, just don't run any "early breakup" rated tubes in it. They do really like Sylvanias.
First thing you need to do is get the manual for the amp and read the section on settings. I don't know why, but the actual useable range is very small on some of the controls, and they knew that.
On my MarkIII the bass is never over 1 with the shift pulled, and I don't run volume 1 over 7.5 or so, ever. Same with the lead. You might get it to sound the way you want at low volumes with extreme settings, but once you crank it the amp isn't gonna like being set that way and will squeal and flub. That said, Mark III's can get pretty nasty and are really tight, so you *could have a problem with the amp, but I'd guess it's your settings. Get the manual, start with the recommended settings and tweak in very small increments from there, you'll be rewarded, they're awesome amps. A tubescreamer type OD will push it over the top if you still need more drive.
And no, you don't have to use Mesa tubes, just don't run any "early breakup" rated tubes in it. They do really like Sylvanias.
Last edited:
King IzzO)))
Ultimate Kitten Puncher
Re: flabby distortion?
The post was in response to the original post.
I doubt the original poster will probably never revisit to read our posts lol (from 2007). I mentioned that I do have a manual. I don't like OD pedals on a boogie because I am very satisfied with the sound I achieved and I like the sound of the boogie tubes. You can't throw in other brands of power tubes without checking the bias, it's fixed (junky tubes that is). Also I never run it above 2, sometimes less. I have a head into a 4x12 cab and it sounds fine, at gigs the PA is responsible for more volume. I found the tone and the volume I was looking for happens to be around 2 or less and that's where it stays. If you're playing a small venue Master at 2 while the lead master is at 2 might actually be too loud. Being that I won't turn it up past that I don't have a bass flabby issue. (Yes I know a 4x12 for a small venue is quite much too). I guess the difference is that mine is a blue stripe versus some of the other stripes that are more aggressive.
I've been a Mesa user for many years and know about making small adjustments. I also know that as the amps age the internal components wear, the PCB wears down and sometimes connections degrade. It's happened to a few guys I know who have boogies older than mine. Mike B at Mesa has been the definitive answer there.
Thank you for augmenting my post. This will be great information to anyone searching information on Mark III's.
The post was in response to the original post.
I doubt the original poster will probably never revisit to read our posts lol (from 2007). I mentioned that I do have a manual. I don't like OD pedals on a boogie because I am very satisfied with the sound I achieved and I like the sound of the boogie tubes. You can't throw in other brands of power tubes without checking the bias, it's fixed (junky tubes that is). Also I never run it above 2, sometimes less. I have a head into a 4x12 cab and it sounds fine, at gigs the PA is responsible for more volume. I found the tone and the volume I was looking for happens to be around 2 or less and that's where it stays. If you're playing a small venue Master at 2 while the lead master is at 2 might actually be too loud. Being that I won't turn it up past that I don't have a bass flabby issue. (Yes I know a 4x12 for a small venue is quite much too). I guess the difference is that mine is a blue stripe versus some of the other stripes that are more aggressive.
I've been a Mesa user for many years and know about making small adjustments. I also know that as the amps age the internal components wear, the PCB wears down and sometimes connections degrade. It's happened to a few guys I know who have boogies older than mine. Mike B at Mesa has been the definitive answer there.
Thank you for augmenting my post. This will be great information to anyone searching information on Mark III's.
King IzzO)))
Ultimate Kitten Puncher
Re: flabby distortion?
Haha, yeah, I typed that before I saw the OP was from five years ago, I just decided to leave it. Great amps to be sure.
Haha, yeah, I typed that before I saw the OP was from five years ago, I just decided to leave it. Great amps to be sure.
Re: flabby distortion?
Thanks guys. I have a Mark III - bought it in 1985 - without graphic or reverb because i couldn't them back then. I get all the same issues with flab. I'm getting a guitar with Blackouts next week. I'll try them out with your ideas, and let you know how it goes.
Thanks guys. I have a Mark III - bought it in 1985 - without graphic or reverb because i couldn't them back then. I get all the same issues with flab. I'm getting a guitar with Blackouts next week. I'll try them out with your ideas, and let you know how it goes.
Re: flabby distortion?
You could always just go with an active preamp....I have one for sale right now....
You could always just go with an active preamp....I have one for sale right now....
Edgecrusher
New member
Re: flabby distortion?
Are you really that desperate to sell that preamp that your pandering to a 6 year old post? FFS just pop it on ebay if you need to move it that fast
Are you really that desperate to sell that preamp that your pandering to a 6 year old post? FFS just pop it on ebay if you need to move it that fast
