Flat out: Does the Phat Cat sound Like a Gibson P-90?

[Sludgenutz]

I have poured through a bunch of Phat Cat threads, and never really found the answer. I apologize if this is "beating a dead horse"

I am assuming "the P-90" sound can be hard to nail because of all the vintage to modern variations Gibson has produced for decades. How does the Phat Cat stand up in tonal range, and to a lesser extent, perceived power output?

I tend to like louder/brasher/punchier over reserved/sweet/"vintage" if that helps. Thanks ALL in advance.

 

[That90'sGuy]

Re: Flat out: Does the Phat Cat sound Like a Gibson P-90?

In plain English: no.

Every single "P90 in a humbucker housing" I've tried doesn't nail the P90 tone. I'm a huge P90 fan (have two PRS McCarty Soapbars, both with Lollar P90s) and you simply won't get the same tone. The closest I've come across are the Gibson P-94s (difficult to find nowadays, but I believe Sweetwater has them).

 

[Aceman]

Re: Flat out: Does the Phat Cat sound Like a Gibson P-90?

+1

Same thing with "hum free" - quiet P-90's. They can come close - on a good day. Gibson P-100's are ok, and I mean that in the most non-commital, apathetic, neutral of "ok's"

The Question is how do P-cats compare to Vintage Duncans...

 

[Benjy_26]

Re: Flat out: Does the Phat Cat sound Like a Gibson P-90?

The PC's are not quite as raw and cutting as a true P90 and have a bit looser low end, IMO.

They don't sound exactly like a traditional P90, but IME, they're about 98% there.

As far as output, I feel that the PC's kick a bit harder than all the Duncan PAF's I've tried.

 

[Stratman]

Re: Flat out: Does the Phat Cat sound Like a Gibson P-90?

+ + on those P-94 and do not foget that they have neck and bridge models.

 

[BachToRock]

Re: Flat out: Does the Phat Cat sound Like a Gibson P-90?

The Phat Cats use Alnico II magnets which will make it looser and smoother than a Gibson P-90...

Under the cover it IS a P-90 with the bobbin edges shaved down... unless some missing bobbin material affects the tone is some unexplainable way, it is just the different magnets and possibly the capacative affect of the cover

 

[frankfalbo]

Re: Flat out: Does the Phat Cat sound Like a Gibson P-90?

I imagine the cover is having an effect on the sound, but probably no different than metal dog ear covers. The AII is the part I never understood. Not that the Phat Cat needs Alnico V, but even the SP90-1 uses A5 and that's Duncan's standard vintage replica. But the Antiquities are A2. So probably in the same way that a 59 is an A5 but a Seth Lover is A2, the SP90-1 is A5 and the Ants AND Phat Cats are A2's. So I think a lot of people are used to an A5 P-90, and when we hear the Phat Cat, we don't associate it with the A2 Antiquities, so we think it's missing some of the rudeness of a P-90 because we're thinking it's supposed to sound like an A5 P-90.

 

[AdmiralB]

Re: Flat out: Does the Phat Cat sound Like a Gibson P-90?

They're not the same. The PC bobbin is taller and narrower. A real P90 (original spec) has 10000 turns of 42 on a single bobbin; a PAF had 5000 on each. Since the PC is wound on a PAF-width bobbin, the only way to get 10000 turns is to go up, not out.

The Gibson P94/Rio Bastard/HD Z90 are pretty much steel-pole Strat pickups in a humbucker case. Take the cover off one, it's a Strat bobbin and a ton of wax. They sound good but not completely like a P90.

 

[jeremy]

Re: Flat out: Does the Phat Cat sound Like a Gibson P-90?

i think the phat cats get alot of the p90 mojo without nailing the tone. i think the bridge pup especially is great, good bite and growl to the mids. p90's use two magnets, im not sure if the phat cat does as well? but i bet putting the a5 in there would make it more "p90"like
personally i like it the way it is and dont think i would like the extra bottom and top as much as i like those big mids

 

[dr.barlo]

Re: Flat out: Does the Phat Cat sound Like a Gibson P-90?

Unless one first tries a real p90 and then route the body to try a PhatCat, there is no way of knowing for sure! I have 2 lollar p90s and 2 phatcats, and because that they are in different guitars, don't think I have enough data to comment on your question.

Nevertheless, generally p90s have a5 magnets, and plastic covers. The a2s inside phatcats and metal covers might make it a little more polite than the regular p90s.

Never tried p94s.

Hope that helps.

B

 

[dr.barlo]

Re: Flat out: Does the Phat Cat sound Like a Gibson P-90?

i think the phat cats get alot of the p90 mojo without nailing the tone. i think the bridge pup especially is great, good bite and growl to the mids. p90's use two magnets, im not sure if the phat cat does as well? but i bet putting the a5 in there would make it more "p90"like
personally i like it the way it is and dont think i would like the extra bottom and top as much as i like those big mids

As far as I could see mine had 2 magnet bars. It's a bridge version.

BTW I fully agree with your comment.

B

 

[BachToRock]

Re: Flat out: Does the Phat Cat sound Like a Gibson P-90?

They're not the same. The PC bobbin is taller and narrower. A real P90 (original spec) has 10000 turns of 42 on a single bobbin; a PAF had 5000 on each. Since the PC is wound on a PAF-width bobbin, the only way to get 10000 turns is to go up, not out.

The Gibson P94/Rio Bastard/HD Z90 are pretty much steel-pole Strat pickups in a humbucker case. Take the cover off one, it's a Strat bobbin and a ton of wax. They sound good but not completely like a P90.

AdmiralB... no offense, but you are entirely incorrect in both you wind specs and the size/shape of a Phat Cats bobbin...

You can plainly see that the Cat is just a P-90 with the bobbin edges shaved down and mounted on a humbucker baseplate... it's plain and simple...

 

[Evan Skopp]

Re: Flat out: Does the Phat Cat sound Like a Gibson P-90?

Flat out... the Phat Cat sounds like a real P-90 because....

IT IS ONE!

Dudes, look at the photos above. They say 1,000 words. Actually, they say 2,000 because there are two of them.

I'm a P-90 player. I have several P-90-loaded guitars. And I include my Phat Cat-loaded guitar in that grouping. The Phat Cat is a P-90. It's just shaved down a bit to fit under a humbucker cover.

The only sonic difference is a marked lack of 60-cycle hum. I believe that's because the cover provide shielding (but I should note that Kevin Beller disagrees with me on this, but I can hear it).

 

[MartinSixStringCustoms]

Re: Flat out: Does the Phat Cat sound Like a Gibson P-90?

In plain English: no.

Every single "P90 in a humbucker housing" I've tried doesn't nail the P90 tone. I'm a huge P90 fan (have two PRS McCarty Soapbars, both with Lollar P90s) and you simply won't get the same tone. The closest I've come across are the Gibson P-94s (difficult to find nowadays, but I believe Sweetwater has them).

+1

Nice pickups and they get "close" but not as good as the real deal IMHO.

 

[frankfalbo]

Re: Flat out: Does the Phat Cat sound Like a Gibson P-90?

Flat out... the Phat Cat sounds like a real P-90 because....

IT IS ONE!

That's what I'm saying, it's just that it IS an A2 P-90, not an A5 P-90, so some guys who only have experience with Korean A5 P-90's, or other typical A5 P-90's think it's the design that's to blame for the difference that they hear, when it's basically the A2 that's making the difference. Would you agree.

 

[AdmiralB]

Re: Flat out: Does the Phat Cat sound Like a Gibson P-90?

AdmiralB... no offense, but you are entirely incorrect in both you wind specs and the size/shape of a Phat Cats bobbin...

You can plainly see that the Cat is just a P-90 with the bobbin edges shaved down and mounted on a humbucker baseplate... it's plain and simple...

Perhaps you should look again - take the side by side and put them one on top of the other - the PC is significantly narrower and a little taller.

There's not enough room in a humbucker case to make a full-size P90; the PC and Steve Kersting's HBP-90 are as close as you can possibly get, I think. The PC is a lot closer than the P-94/Rio/HD, which aren't even close to a P90 bobbin.

As far as the specs...no offense, but maybe you should do a little research. The original Gibson P90 spec was 10000 turns of 42AWG. The original PAF was the same number of turns spread over the two bobbins. Here's a head start:

http://www.ampge.com/SKGS/sk/pickup_specs.htm

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: Flat out: Does the Phat Cat sound Like a Gibson P-90?

They're not the same. The PC bobbin is taller and narrower. A real P90 (original spec) has 10000 turns of 42 on a single bobbin; a PAF had 5000 on each. Since the PC is wound on a PAF-width bobbin, the only way to get 10000 turns is to go up, not out.

Either I'm not understanding you correctly or you've never taken a Phat Cat apart. I have and I can tell you that it's just a P90 bobbin with the ends cut off. It may be a slightly taller than average P90 bobbin to be able to get 8.5k worth of #42 on there -- hey, humbucker bobbins vary in height too depending on the maker -- but it is still a P90 bobbin. You can see on the ends that it's pretty jagged where they band-sawed the ends off.

 

[AdmiralB]

Re: Flat out: Does the Phat Cat sound Like a Gibson P-90?

Did you look at the picture I linked? I'm not talking about the flatwork, I'm talking about the coil. The PC coil is a good 3/8 to 1/2-inch narrower than the P90.

Now, you could ask, how much difference does that 3/8" make, and I would say, "I don't know". But it is not exactly like a P90, it's a little smaller.

There's a guy in the amp forum who claims he can hear the difference between plastic and metal handles on the sides of his Marshall 4x12; it can't be both ways - either the tiniest details matter, or they do not.

 

[BachToRock]

Re: Flat out: Does the Phat Cat sound Like a Gibson P-90?

AdmiralB, the pictures I posted are of a NECK Phat Cat and a Bridge Vintage P-90... the neck coil will be slightly smaller since it has fewer winds... plus, the P-90 has a few wraps of the black paper tape around the actual coil which makes it look larger.

If you can't accept that even EVAN chimed in to help clear things up... I don't know what else to say?

Maybe you should consider that info you have read elsewhere is incorrect, just as the info you stated earlier is incorrect... just because somebody can type it does not mean it is accurate.

The Cat and a Vintage P-90 are both wound with 42 gauge wire to similar specs... the main diffrerence is the A2 and A5 magnets

Speaking of tiniest details... that guy with the golden ears from the amp forum must have lent you his inadequate male measuring tape to come up with a 3/8" to 1/2" difference in coil size... the entire coil is not even 3/8" wide

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: Flat out: Does the Phat Cat sound Like a Gibson P-90?

Perhaps you should look again - take the side by side and put them one on top of the other - the PC is significantly narrower and a little taller.

What pictures are you looking at?

I have P90's, P90 bobbins and I have a Phat Cat so I can verify that Bach's pictures are dead-on. The Phat Cat bobbin is neither narrower nor taller as the pictures clearly show. Width-wise, 10,000 turns (approx. 8.5k) doesn't come anywhere near filling up a P90 or Phat Cat bobbin because I've made 10.1k P90's with room to spare. Therefore, even if the Phat Cat bobbin is 1mm or 2mm narrower, it doesn't matter.

The ends get a little tricky with the Phat Cat because you have to shave down the inside a little where the 1st and 6th string pole pieces without compromising the pole piece holes so you can get more than about 7.6k worth of #42 on it.