F
Falstaff
Guest
Re: Floyd Rose vs Fender vs Bigsby
Bigsby for me...nothing looks or sounds cooler, IMHO.
Bigsby for me...nothing looks or sounds cooler, IMHO.
Floyd Rose vs Fender vs Bigsby
- Thread starter skh515
- Start date
tone?
New member
Re: Floyd Rose vs Fender vs Bigsby
well i posted a thread on how locking trems should be set up.
i believe that a fender is the best set-up cause it has the right amount of proper contact to the body. NO-one with good tone uses the Floyds in the studio. Van Halen used his fender trem in the studio ALL the time on the early records. and his floyd was flush with the body anyway.
here is what i wrote on the other thread:
Ok i dont want to be a smart-ass here but i would like to point out a something that i think is overlooked in terms of getting better tone from your guitar.
Many people have stated this before but recently i was testing it out on my guitar.
If you have a Floyd-type trem DONT FLOAT IT!
this is the most tone-robbing thing you can do to your guitar as i have seen.
a long time ago while i was messing with my Ibanez Roadstar II and the other day i took a crack at it again. ( cause of all the Van Halen influence) , i was experementing with resting the Ibanez edge on the guitar instead of floating it ( cause of all the Van Halen influence) .
It still didnt sound as good, yes it definately gained more attack but sounded harsh and lost bass response. for some reason the trem probably doesnt come into good contact with the body.
So what i found out was that putting a small piece of wood on both sides of the trem ( behind the pivot points) made a HUGE difference. I MEAN HUGE!!
THE GUITAR HAD A COMPLETLY BETTER SOUND!
just to make sure i took them off again a floated the body and it got some of the bass back but was mushy.
so in a nutshell this is what i found:
Floating Bridge: ok bass but loose , Very little pick attack and sustain
Bridge rested on body: Better attack and sustain but harsh sounding.
Bridge rested on two pieces of wood behind pivots: tight attack, warmer sounding and great sustain. the notes sounded more round without losing dynamics and harmonics( not dampened) .
THE DIFFERENCE IS NIGHT AND DAY!!
well i posted a thread on how locking trems should be set up.
i believe that a fender is the best set-up cause it has the right amount of proper contact to the body. NO-one with good tone uses the Floyds in the studio. Van Halen used his fender trem in the studio ALL the time on the early records. and his floyd was flush with the body anyway.
here is what i wrote on the other thread:
Ok i dont want to be a smart-ass here but i would like to point out a something that i think is overlooked in terms of getting better tone from your guitar.
Many people have stated this before but recently i was testing it out on my guitar.
If you have a Floyd-type trem DONT FLOAT IT!
this is the most tone-robbing thing you can do to your guitar as i have seen.
a long time ago while i was messing with my Ibanez Roadstar II and the other day i took a crack at it again. ( cause of all the Van Halen influence) , i was experementing with resting the Ibanez edge on the guitar instead of floating it ( cause of all the Van Halen influence) .
It still didnt sound as good, yes it definately gained more attack but sounded harsh and lost bass response. for some reason the trem probably doesnt come into good contact with the body.
So what i found out was that putting a small piece of wood on both sides of the trem ( behind the pivot points) made a HUGE difference. I MEAN HUGE!!
THE GUITAR HAD A COMPLETLY BETTER SOUND!
just to make sure i took them off again a floated the body and it got some of the bass back but was mushy.
so in a nutshell this is what i found:
Floating Bridge: ok bass but loose , Very little pick attack and sustain
Bridge rested on body: Better attack and sustain but harsh sounding.
Bridge rested on two pieces of wood behind pivots: tight attack, warmer sounding and great sustain. the notes sounded more round without losing dynamics and harmonics( not dampened) .
THE DIFFERENCE IS NIGHT AND DAY!!
JeffB
Let it B
Re: Floyd Rose vs Fender vs Bigsby
I voted Fender...I prefer the simplicty and sound...don't know how to explain it, but it's not as "extreme" sounding as a Floyd..listen to pre 85 Gary Moore, Jeff Beck, and Yngwie.
But had they been choices I would have voted Wilkinson or PRS....those 2 designs I like best.
Never cared for Bigbys...at all.
I voted Fender...I prefer the simplicty and sound...don't know how to explain it, but it's not as "extreme" sounding as a Floyd..listen to pre 85 Gary Moore, Jeff Beck, and Yngwie.
But had they been choices I would have voted Wilkinson or PRS....those 2 designs I like best.
Never cared for Bigbys...at all.
Re: Floyd Rose vs Fender vs Bigsby
I like Wilkinsons. I use it with locking tuners, and a graphite nut. I can drop it to the body over and over and it remains in tune. Pull it up almost 2 steps, same thing. String changing is super fast.
Fender bridges/saddles cut into my palm, look crude, and don't return in tune as well. They are mostly for the vintage crowd trying to perserve a look/tone. 50 years of innovation is a good thing. Fender doesn't even use them on their top modern guitars.
Bigsbys must all be about the look (which I hate), because functionally they are awful. I must have tried hundreds of them, and even with little 'shimmers' (which is all it can do anyway), they are good for 1 or 2 before it goes out of tune.
I like Wilkinsons. I use it with locking tuners, and a graphite nut. I can drop it to the body over and over and it remains in tune. Pull it up almost 2 steps, same thing. String changing is super fast.
Fender bridges/saddles cut into my palm, look crude, and don't return in tune as well. They are mostly for the vintage crowd trying to perserve a look/tone. 50 years of innovation is a good thing. Fender doesn't even use them on their top modern guitars.
Bigsbys must all be about the look (which I hate), because functionally they are awful. I must have tried hundreds of them, and even with little 'shimmers' (which is all it can do anyway), they are good for 1 or 2 before it goes out of tune.
Boleslaw Gers 666
New member
Re: Floyd Rose vs Fender vs Bigsby
I say Fender only because of the simplicity in restringing. Putting some good tuners on like Sperzels will keep the guitar relatively in tune, not like a Floyd, though. But Floyds are a pain to restring.
I say Fender only because of the simplicity in restringing. Putting some good tuners on like Sperzels will keep the guitar relatively in tune, not like a Floyd, though. But Floyds are a pain to restring.
Davey
Goliath of Tone
Re: Floyd Rose vs Fender vs Bigsby
i dont agree with what you said Tone ... a proper guitar with a proper floyd sustains just as well if not better than a fender flush bridge.
it's a matter of preference. the ibanez edges arent considered to be good trems in the 1st place. if i want to float it i'll float it. the tone will suffer a bit but no the the point where my tone will be horribly sucky.
lynch's tone doesnt suck. vai's tone doesnt suck there are many, many others who's tone doesnt suck just BECAUSE they have a floating floyd.
just because your guitar sounds so much better with a blocked trem and you feel so robbed of tone because of the floating floyd, doesnt mean everybody absolutely HAS to do it, or has it on their album recordings
i dont agree with what you said Tone ... a proper guitar with a proper floyd sustains just as well if not better than a fender flush bridge.
it's a matter of preference. the ibanez edges arent considered to be good trems in the 1st place. if i want to float it i'll float it. the tone will suffer a bit but no the the point where my tone will be horribly sucky.
lynch's tone doesnt suck. vai's tone doesnt suck there are many, many others who's tone doesnt suck just BECAUSE they have a floating floyd.
just because your guitar sounds so much better with a blocked trem and you feel so robbed of tone because of the floating floyd, doesnt mean everybody absolutely HAS to do it, or has it on their album recordings
Gearjoneser
Gear Ho
Re: Floyd Rose vs Fender vs Bigsby
After beating all their competition into the ground, including Kahler, it's pretty unanimous that the Floyd Rose system is the one preferred by most trem users.
I agree with Mincer about the Wilkinson/graphite/Sperzel combination as well.
I've always considered stock Fender trems and Bigsbys to be useless, unless tuning hassles is part of your repertoire. Ha Ha
I've never understood everyone's problem with Floyds. It's too bad, like Seafoamer said, that more non-metal guitarists don't use them more. Since they were born out of the 80's, the association makes Floyds almost synonymous with metal.....but it's too bad because the system works flawlessly. Any tuning problem or setup problem is purely the result of a guitar player's lack of setup skills. Since intonating a Floyd is a bit more painstaking than regular saddles, many players tweak other aspects of the setup, while ignoring the final intonation, probably out of laziness. If a Floyd equipped guitar is setup perfectly, whether floating or blocked, the guitar should be able to be thrashed upon and still remain perfectly in tune. No other trem system can match that level of performance. As far as tone.....welcome to Duncan. Find a pickup that compensates for any tonal problems you seem to hear.
After beating all their competition into the ground, including Kahler, it's pretty unanimous that the Floyd Rose system is the one preferred by most trem users.
I agree with Mincer about the Wilkinson/graphite/Sperzel combination as well.
I've always considered stock Fender trems and Bigsbys to be useless, unless tuning hassles is part of your repertoire. Ha Ha
I've never understood everyone's problem with Floyds. It's too bad, like Seafoamer said, that more non-metal guitarists don't use them more. Since they were born out of the 80's, the association makes Floyds almost synonymous with metal.....but it's too bad because the system works flawlessly. Any tuning problem or setup problem is purely the result of a guitar player's lack of setup skills. Since intonating a Floyd is a bit more painstaking than regular saddles, many players tweak other aspects of the setup, while ignoring the final intonation, probably out of laziness. If a Floyd equipped guitar is setup perfectly, whether floating or blocked, the guitar should be able to be thrashed upon and still remain perfectly in tune. No other trem system can match that level of performance. As far as tone.....welcome to Duncan. Find a pickup that compensates for any tonal problems you seem to hear.
L
Lewguitar
Guest
Re: Floyd Rose vs Fender vs Bigsby
I never use a vibrato but all of my Strats have one: BLOCKED! I think the Fender design has the best tone.
I feel that the Bigsby makes the strings sound and feel spongey. That spongey feel makes me have to bend them further to raise the pitch when I bend a note with my fingers and the Bigsby doesn't raise the pitch much or do dive bombs well at all.
Floyds stay in tune the best but I think they tend to throw away to much bass and low end and also adversely affect the sustain of the guitar.
There's a reason Jeff Beck uses the Fender design...and Jeff is the whammy bar man par excellance!
Lew
I never use a vibrato but all of my Strats have one: BLOCKED! I think the Fender design has the best tone.
I feel that the Bigsby makes the strings sound and feel spongey. That spongey feel makes me have to bend them further to raise the pitch when I bend a note with my fingers and the Bigsby doesn't raise the pitch much or do dive bombs well at all.
Floyds stay in tune the best but I think they tend to throw away to much bass and low end and also adversely affect the sustain of the guitar.
There's a reason Jeff Beck uses the Fender design...and Jeff is the whammy bar man par excellance!
Lew
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L
Lewguitar
Guest
Re: Floyd Rose vs Fender vs Bigsby
Compared to what?
I've compared a Floyd equipped Ibanez guitar to my Fender guitars and played acoustically without plugging them in, my Strats sounded better and sustained better...at least to me.
Other players have commented on how the Floyd seems to lose a little of the low E's fundamental too.
I think that's why some players who use a Floyd need an overwound 14K bridge pickup or even hotter: to get back some low end.
I don't have all that much experience with Floyds though...my experience is pretty limited. It might only apply to the guitar I owned briefly.
The only Floyd equipped guitar I ever bought was a nice Ibanez I picked out of several guitars of the same model. Sounded good in the store, but I took it back the next day because when I compared it to my Strats at home it just didn't have the same solidity to the bass frequencies...the actual fundamental was barely there at all compared to the open E of my Fender.
I'm not saying they don't sound musical or don't sound good...just that I prefered the Fender design with a full size tremolo block over the Floyd guitar I had.
The low E sounded deeper to me with the Fender design.
Mephis said:
Compared to what?
I've compared a Floyd equipped Ibanez guitar to my Fender guitars and played acoustically without plugging them in, my Strats sounded better and sustained better...at least to me.
Other players have commented on how the Floyd seems to lose a little of the low E's fundamental too.
I think that's why some players who use a Floyd need an overwound 14K bridge pickup or even hotter: to get back some low end.
I don't have all that much experience with Floyds though...my experience is pretty limited. It might only apply to the guitar I owned briefly.
The only Floyd equipped guitar I ever bought was a nice Ibanez I picked out of several guitars of the same model. Sounded good in the store, but I took it back the next day because when I compared it to my Strats at home it just didn't have the same solidity to the bass frequencies...the actual fundamental was barely there at all compared to the open E of my Fender.
I'm not saying they don't sound musical or don't sound good...just that I prefered the Fender design with a full size tremolo block over the Floyd guitar I had.
The low E sounded deeper to me with the Fender design.
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Re: Floyd Rose vs Fender vs Bigsby
It actually is...mine has graphite saddles, and is on 2 pivot points instead of 6. The intonation screws are lockable, and there is no side-to-side rocking of the saddles either. It is brushed chrome, the bar is more substantial, and it stays in tune better overall.
skh515 said:
It actually is...mine has graphite saddles, and is on 2 pivot points instead of 6. The intonation screws are lockable, and there is no side-to-side rocking of the saddles either. It is brushed chrome, the bar is more substantial, and it stays in tune better overall.
Zerberus
Baron Von Shred
Re: Floyd Rose vs Fender vs Bigsby
Recessed trem + Not Floating: Why even get an axe with a recessed trem instead of a flat-mount or a hardtail?? Total waste of money
What a lot of you trem haters will some day learn: Just becaue YOU like it better doesn´t mean it´s so, just for you it is. As almost anyone here can tell you, Tone is subjective. It´s about what you want, and about what the other guy wants, not about forcing the other guy to have your tone
Blocking a trem reduces the creative possibilities that having the trem affords you. Totally blocking it as some recommend is Total BS, buy a freakin Hardtail. The Epitome of this madness is when hacks that want a Tune-O-Matic on their Soloist just decide to fill the entire trem cavity with Epoxy and then wonder why the axe sounds like **** afterwards. After destroying 4 chisels and refinishing the entire guitar, she again sounds beautiful. And she sustains significantly longer than any other axe I have, including my Les Pauls :headbang:
You can build a guiitar around a trem, and you can build a guitar without a trem that sounds like crap and sustains just as well. A lot of you guys just seem real fast to "point the finger" at the Floyd, when a lot more of it is build quility in general and then setup in general. On a high quality guitar (USA Jackson, Orig. ESP, USA PRS, Warmoth Parts axe, USA Hamer, etc....) the Hardware should be the least of what´s causing your problem
Good thing tone is subjective, otherwise I think you´d have insulted half the board right there. To each his owntone said:
Recessed trem + Not Floating: Why even get an axe with a recessed trem instead of a flat-mount or a hardtail?? Total waste of money
What a lot of you trem haters will some day learn: Just becaue YOU like it better doesn´t mean it´s so, just for you it is. As almost anyone here can tell you, Tone is subjective. It´s about what you want, and about what the other guy wants, not about forcing the other guy to have your tone
Blocking a trem reduces the creative possibilities that having the trem affords you. Totally blocking it as some recommend is Total BS, buy a freakin Hardtail. The Epitome of this madness is when hacks that want a Tune-O-Matic on their Soloist just decide to fill the entire trem cavity with Epoxy and then wonder why the axe sounds like **** afterwards. After destroying 4 chisels and refinishing the entire guitar, she again sounds beautiful. And she sustains significantly longer than any other axe I have, including my Les Pauls :headbang:
You can build a guiitar around a trem, and you can build a guitar without a trem that sounds like crap and sustains just as well. A lot of you guys just seem real fast to "point the finger" at the Floyd, when a lot more of it is build quility in general and then setup in general. On a high quality guitar (USA Jackson, Orig. ESP, USA PRS, Warmoth Parts axe, USA Hamer, etc....) the Hardware should be the least of what´s causing your problem
L
Lewguitar
Guest
Re: Floyd Rose vs Fender vs Bigsby
Actually Zerb, alot of players prefer the tone of a Strat with a tremolo over a hard tail but block the trem because they don't use it.
Eric Clapton for one. He's said many times that he blocks the trem because he never uses it and the guitar stays in tune better and also he can hold one note and bend a second note against it without the note he's not bending going flat. Same reason I prefer to block my trems on all of my Strats.
But EC says he prefers the tone of a Strat with the tremolo (actually a vibrato...) over a hard tail.
Lew
Actually Zerb, alot of players prefer the tone of a Strat with a tremolo over a hard tail but block the trem because they don't use it.
Eric Clapton for one. He's said many times that he blocks the trem because he never uses it and the guitar stays in tune better and also he can hold one note and bend a second note against it without the note he's not bending going flat. Same reason I prefer to block my trems on all of my Strats.
But EC says he prefers the tone of a Strat with the tremolo (actually a vibrato...) over a hard tail.
Lew
