Fluence fire!

[Stratman]

Li Ion battery somehow got loose and got a very small hole by touching one of the push-pull pots, then self ignited with a lot of white smoke and then an intense fire.

Universal battery pack installed into a les paul to provide power to modern Fishman Fluence pickup set.

Pulled out that very hot battery and run it on a 9V battery works just fine!

Contacted Fishman support and getting a replacement (FREE) in the mail.

reat tone and great customer support!

 

[Demanic]

Re: Fluence fire!

Yikes. Unintended smoke and fire shows are not good.

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[AlexR]

Re: Fluence fire!

Even Ace doesn't want unintended smoke

 

[Demanic]

Re: Fluence fire!

Nobody does, especially considering what that battery compartment could be in close proximity to.

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[Funkfingers]

Re: Fluence fire!

So, you sling your guitars low on the strap, huh?

 

[Lysergene]

Re: Fluence fire!

No way. I was considering some of these pups with that battery pack. I don't fancy castration by fire though.

Of course they will replace them; that could have burnt a house down man.

 

[Masta' C]

Re: Fluence fire!

Um...Fishman BETTER provide "great" customer service when there's an incident like this. Lithium-ion batter fires are no joke!

One of my family friend's houses burned down because of a lithium-ion battery fire. That said, 99.9999% of us will never experience such a problem, but when they DO go off, it can be exceptionally dangerous.

Glad you and the guitar are ok!

 

[frankfalbo]

Re: Fluence fire!

As far as I understand it, technically the same/similar risk is there with a 9v if it breaks free, and is shorted out, etc. There's a puncture risk but 9v's have a metal shell. But maybe LI is a little worse if it's punctured and the elements mix together? It'll probably result in a warning or disclaimer, that there's a puncture risk.

Its basic battery safety I suppose. And the cell itself is only 3.7volts, it's not even 9v. It's getting stepped up to a consistent 9v by the electronics.

 

[Demanic]

Re: Fluence fire!

Lithium is quite a reactive element.

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[Hank-]

Re: Fluence fire!

Well any battery type is a hazard, leaving them unattended while charging is a risk as well. LiPo & Li-Ion cells however can catch fire if their case is punctured in any form because Lithium is way up on the periodic table with atomic number 3, while hydrogen being 1 you can imagine how highly reactive it is when exposed to air/oxygen.

While we are on topic, keep an eye on those power banks, cellphone batteries & laptop battery as well, notice any irregularities in charging/quick draining/puffing, dispose the thing right away, its a ticking time bomb with no timer display on it lol

 

[Masta' C]

Re: Fluence fire!

As far as I understand it, technically the same/similar risk is there with a 9v if it breaks free, and is shorted out, etc. There's a puncture risk but 9v's have a metal shell. But maybe LI is a little worse if it's punctured and the elements mix together? It'll probably result in a warning or disclaimer, that there's a puncture risk.

Its basic battery safety I suppose. And the cell itself is only 3.7volts, it's not even 9v. It's getting stepped up to a consistent 9v by the electronics.

These occurrences are exceptionally rare, regardless of the application, and I'm not suggesting Fishman's at fault here. However, a flaming li-ion battery can be very dangerous due to the intensity of the reaction and it's well documented that lithium cells carry a far greater fire risk than alkaline and other types of batteries. It's certainly in Fishman's best interest to address these rare occurrences promptly (as they have) to avoid consumers "flaming" them over such a new product...that's all I was getting at.

In response to what you said, it doesn't matter that the battery is "only" 3.7 volts. Most modern cell phone batteries are "only" 3.7 volts, as well, yet they can still pack a feisty, flame-fisted punch. Also, your typical "9V alkaline" has 6 individual steel-cased cells inside, not one big cell as is likely with the li-ion.

 

[Stratman]

Re: Fluence fire!

Well some great news...

Fishman has provided a solution and a revised/newer (??) battery type, instead of the Li Ion (???)

I will let you know when it arrives in a couple days.


PS: Yes the old one somehow got punctured when the adhesive could not hold it's grip and let the battery come loose and make contact with one of the pots.

When the replacement comes in, I intend to use a foam separator to keep all metal parts away from the battery.

 

[Masta' C]

Re: Fluence fire!

This is an extremely serious design flaw...Fishman should immediately recall or offer to provide a mod kit for all this type of battery packs that have been shipped.
This represents a major product liability problem for Fishman. The company should publish on their Website a warning and send information to all their dealers and distributors...I am very disappointed in Fishman's lack of action regarding this problem....

Whoa now...

Yes, there may be a redesign/recall necessary, but it could be as simple as upgrading the adhesive they use And that's assuming this incident was due to a fault with their product and not related to the installation, etc.

As for claiming "lack of action" on Fishman's part, I would argue that they have acted very proactively so far. They addressed the OP's issue immediately and promptly provided him with an alternate solution. I'm certain they are looking into the situation further. This is all a very recent development and there aren't other reports of this happening, so give Fishman a chance to figure out how they want to handle it.

Li-ion battery fires aren't "ok", but I have no doubt Fishman will be on top of this IF there really is an issue with the design.

 

[Hank-]

Re: Fluence fire!

This is an extremely serious design flaw.

Fishman should immediately recall or offer to provide a mod kit for all this type of battery packs that have been shipped.
This represents a major product liability problem for Fishman. The company should publish on their Website a warning and send information to all their dealers and distributors. If they do not take quick proactive action it could result in a smaller scale type of Ford Pinto product liability problem for them.

Fishman should also review the design of all their other battery packs to insure that this type of potential problem does not exist.

I am very disappointed in Fishman's lack of action regarding this problem. I checked their Web Site this morning and there is no mention of it.

To put it simply I hope Fishman takes care of this before someone or their property is seriously burned. Again, remember the Pinto and the Million dollar award given to a lady who spilled hot McDonald's coffee on herself.

I like this one they offer for strats, design wise very effective imo http://www.fishman.com/products/series/fluence/stratrechargeablebatterypack.php

If the one that caught fire was this one
http://www.fishman.com/products/series/fluence/universalrechargeablebatterypack.php

I can't make out the design flaw in it from pics. If 9V works in there then there might be a way to power it externally instead of a battery.

Remember the counterfeit Nokia batteries blowing up? Well, that was quite a news back in the day around my part of the world.

 

[Stratman]

Re: Fluence fire!

To clarify.... Universal Battery Pack!

Not the one that fits onto the back of a Stratocaster (I have two of these) that have no problem

Not the one used in the Telecaster (Greg's) I have one of these.

AND Fishman to their credit, as soon as they found out about this problem - Fixed it with a different design that protect the battery and also improved the adhesive.

Great Service and Great Tone on all three models (Stratocaster, Telecaster, and Les Paul models)

 

[Nashvillebound]

Re: Fluence fire!

 

[Chad]

Re: Fluence fire!

To clarify.... Universal Battery Pack!

Not the one that fits onto the back of a Stratocaster (I have two of these) that have no problem

Not the one used in the Telecaster (Greg's) I have one of these.

AND Fishman to their credit, as soon as they found out about this problem - Fixed it with a different design that protect the battery and also improved the adhesive.

Great Service and Great Tone on all three models (Stratocaster, Telecaster, and Les Paul models)

Glad that worked out! Can you describe what the new design looks like compared to the old one? Just curious. Thanks.

 

[Masta' C]

Re: Fluence fire!

Just put the new Fluence Greg Koch set in my Tele...

Man, you wouldn't believe the warm, smokey tones I'm getting in the neck and the bridge pickup is downright searing!

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Sorry, had to

 

[misterwhizzy]

Re: Fluence fire!

Bad things seem to have a tendency to happen to you.

 

[Stratman]

Re: Fluence fire!

Dear Fishman US/Canada Dealer or Artist


It has come to our attention that the battery in these products, if punctured, may represent a risk to the instrument or the owner. Although the products passed consumer safety testing in their shipped condition, and the risk is extremely small when the product is professionally installed, we believe that any risk is unacceptable. For that reason, we have made the decision to RECALL all Fishman Universal and Les Paul Rechargeable Battery Packs shipped before June 20th, 2016. Note that this recall does NOT apply to the Battery Pack for Strat or the "Gristle-Tone" Signature Tele Set. Only the Universal and Les Paul battery models are affected.


IMPORTANT: IF YOU HAVE THESE AFFECTED MODELS IN STOCK, PLEASE STOP SELLING TO CUSTOMERS IMMEDIATELY!


Our records indicate that you were sold one or more of the following SKUs:


PRO-BPK-LP1

PRO-BPK-101


Please reply to this email as soon as possible to inform us of your current stock. We will generate a return authorization and shipping label to exchange the product for a model with improved puncture resistance. Even if you have sold through your entire stock of affected SKU, please reply to let us know you have sold out. If you have access to customer email or phone information for these purchases, please direct them to this webpage for more information about the recall: http://www.fishman.com/batteryrecall.php


We are currently notifying customers of this recall through the Fishman website and also by government registration of the recall notice.


We apologize for the inconvenience to you and your customers, but hope that this recall reinforces the importance we place on product safety, the value we place on your trust and the premium we are willing to pay for continued excellence in acoustic and electric amplification.


Martin Gray
Sales Operations Manager