For the "Hardcore Warmoth Fans".....

[Zerberus]

Re: For the "Hardcore Warmoth Fans".....

Ok, let's take a Charvel USA custom shop model (bolt on, so easier to er... 'compare')
Alder body, 22 frets, maple fretboard, Black delrin inlays, one humbucker and original Floyd Rose. We'll chose a solid color. Nothing too fancy, just a small GAS machine that'll turn head (well it worked for EVH)
Base price is 2,499.99
Floyd rose is 120
Total is 2,619.99
And that's all there is. (Let's not order a case with it, as warmoth doesn't do cases I think, but anyhoo just in case, that'd be an extra 159.99)

Warmoth:

Body, rear routed: 165 + 10 for angled neck pocket (for non recessed OFR) = 175

Neck, maple, maple fretboard, MOP dot inlays, strat head, thin profile: 157 + 25 for locking nut + 20 for stainless frets + 35 for straight fretboard radius (10'' for an OFR I believe?) = 237

Solid color = 165

Pickups + control: SD custom 5 $74.25 + 500k CTS volume pot $3 + 5.95 for wiring +SJ1 switchcraft stereo jack $3 = 86.2

Parts, hardware, screws = Floyd Rose (chrome) $170 + gotoh tuner, left, chrome $25 + 3.50 for pickup ring + $2.75 knob + 4.50 neck plate + 1.60 neck screws + schaller strap lock $12 = 219.35

Total = 882.55

Personally, for a difference of 1,737.44 dollars, I doubt I would notice the difference in quality. I'd be ready to pay a luthier for a fretjob, but for a 1 hum guitar I'd do the wiring myself (we all have to start one day).
The way people like me think (i.e GAS attacked people with little money, no job and the urge to buy everything) is: either I pay the oldest, most reputable, most badass custom shop in the world for my dream guitar, and I get the best guarantee there is, either I go to warmoth and I save 1,800 bucks. The quality WILL be there, it just wouldn't be hand made, the woods probably would be of a slightly lesser quality. Would it be something I'd notice while playing? Would it be something most people would notice? For such a price difference, I say warmoth is winner.

Now yor´re comparing a custom Ferrari to a Mustang built from parts.....Why not get a quote for a Strat from the Custom shop and compare it to a Johnson for 100 bucks while you´re already at it

I mean, they both have a strat body, 3 pickups, an pickguard and 22 frets, there´s no difference, right??

*Edit* BTW: take a look over at some of the Dealer Sites of the JCF, the price you´re quoting is retail... I´m starting to get sick and tired of posting links to Dealers which offer the instruments at decent prices because people take one look at a retail price list and start screaming, especially multiple times in the same thread.... that guitar would cost you about 1600-1700 street price... And there is no such thing as A USA Jackson, especially not a custom.without a case, the SKB is part of the price and the G+G costs extra, period. Please get your information correct.... The price difference is a LOT smaller when you use the correct numbers, i just shaved 1k off of it without much effort

If you´re using a custom as a comparison: Where´s my leather Binder from warmoth? The CD with pictures of the axe in construction? The T-shirt? The rest of the case Candy?

Yeah, in this case you´re getting off cheaper.... And? What exactly are you trying to say that I haven´t said already? Or are you just trying to confuse me in the hopes that I´ll forget my position? :laugh2:

......
http://www.soundinstruments.com/ This place says they're the only supplier of Boogie Bodies. Their prices are similar to Warmoth.

Yep, that´s Lynn... Again, I´ll have to wait until I actually see the stuff for judgement, but the prices seem to have come down as well...

I may as well delete this thread, because it´s already become very obvoius that people don´t understand what I´m talking about......or they simply don´t care......

 

[Pierre]

Re: For the "Hardcore Warmoth Fans".....

I think I do get what you're talking about. We both agree that we can't compare production to custom. But aren't both warmot and Charvel CS custom as well? The point I was trying to make is that to many people the satisfaction you get in the end is the same for less money. I do agree with all the points you made and like you I find it weird when people say 'wow that EVH is over priced, it's a bolt on so it must be cheap to make, let's ask warmoth' but in a way I don't blame them because I know I think the same. It's a cheaper alternative that for many people provides the same results, just without a name on the headstock. I know I'm not mentioning quality, but I personally would not be able to notice the difference right now. I know nothing about fretwork or wood quality for instance, all I want is something made 100% to my tastes. Both Charvel and Warmoth can provide that.

 

[Willis]

Re: For the "Hardcore Warmoth Fans".....

Yep, that´s Lynn... Again, I´ll have to wait until I actually see the stuff for judgement, but the prices seem to have come down as well...

I'll make a thread when my guitar is finished. Most likely I'll get a Boogie Bodies neck. I'm going to get a body made from a place called Blackhorse guitars I found on ebay. They sell bodies to George Lynch's tech. I'll probably start ordering parts in a few weeks. The last thing I need to decide about is the bridge. Ultimately I'd like something like a locking Fender 2 point bridge, and I know they have some on some Fender guitars, but I'll probably end up with a Kahler or a Floyd.

 

[Pierre]

Re: For the "Hardcore Warmoth Fans".....

Sorry about the Charvel price Zerb. I live in Europe and I have never seen any in any shops nor heard of anyone who has one. I thought the only way to get those was to order them directly... With all the options they have I thought they were only custom, just to different extent. How much would an average SD like I cited run for you think?

 

[Zerberus]

Re: For the "Hardcore Warmoth Fans".....

.....I know nothing about fretwork or wood quality for instance, all I want is something made 100% to my tastes. Both Charvel and Warmoth can provide that.

And BAM, THAT`S the Kicker, thats the reason I started this thread..... People with no luthierie experience often assume that Warmoth is the absolute nonplusultra, and that´s simply not true, as much as I don´t want to say it...

If you´re a middle of the range player, great...if warmoth can solve your problems, great..... But the difference is in the details, and these NOBODY without luthierie experience can add them, nor can anybody without said experience pass qualified judgement on them... There are good fret dresses and perfect fret dresses, for example.. A player only sees that they shine see and don´t cut up his hands. But can he see himself in them? Are the ends perfectly rounded and not just started? And that´s just an example, I could go a lot farther..... I´ve never seen a post about anybody tap tuning necks and bodies to make the perfect warmoth, for example....

Those details are what makes the difference in price... Why should luthiers get paid as much as street cleaners, just because street cleaners don´t know what they´re talking about

 

[Pierre]

Re: For the "Hardcore Warmoth Fans".....

I know what you mean. But to me, whether I can see myself in the fret doesn't matter. What I want a smooth neck, low action and no buzz. Would a difference of even 500 dollars justify a perfect as opposed to really good fretjob? I know there are way more things that, but try to see it with my eyes.
I want to become a luthier myself but there's no way I can get much experience right now (no money for beater guitars) but it's one of my dreams now to understand how guitars work and how they should be set up. I honestly really do want to, I just don't know where to start. The furthest I've been was to adjust my neck (I've been playing since February).

 

[theodie]

Re: For the "Hardcore Warmoth Fans".....

Zerb, my thoughts exactly on all points of view!!! This is why you are my hero!!! :clap: :clap: :clap:

 

[Vasshu the humanoid typhoon]

Re: For the "Hardcore Warmoth Fans".....

When you get to know things like that, you'll end up not minding paying for those details.
I am still saving for that Danish handmade Mørch guitar that I eventually will get one day.

 

[nuntius]

Re: For the "Hardcore Warmoth Fans".....

When you get to know things like that, you'll end up not minding paying for those details.
I am still saving for that Danish handmade Mørch guitar that I eventually will get one day.

Woah, their stuff looks great

http://www.morch-guitars.dk/

I listened to the top clip (the tele one) sounds good..

 

[aleclee]

Re: For the "Hardcore Warmoth Fans".....

As someone who's run the numbers in the past, I'm with ya Zerb.

 

[Vasshu the humanoid typhoon]

Re: For the "Hardcore Warmoth Fans".....

It is Johnny who builds them, he has made over 1500 units all by himself, made som many repeairs that it is not even funny, his guitars are some of the best I ever have tried.
He also winds his own pickups, builds worldclass bassguitars, is one of the most nice persons I know and I want one of his guitars

 

[Xeromus]

Re: For the "Hardcore Warmoth Fans".....

Yeah I think building a warmoth guitar to clone another defeats the purpose. Zerbs right, it's still pretty expensive and it's not like you're saving a load of money. The reason I'm doing my warmoth build is because I've never found a guitar that has all of the things I like. There's nothing available for what I have in mind. Plus it's something I'd like to build myself. I enjoy constructing things. It would be a player and I'd never sell it. So I don't care about the resale value.

 

[Colma]

Re: For the "Hardcore Warmoth Fans".....

this is a pretty interesting thread!!!!! =)

im just getting into guitar but since my current little project was between the two companies ill throw in my 2 cents =)

i was looking for a flying V, and i wasnt diggin the whole pickguard thing gibson had going on, so Jackson it was!!! i started eyeballing guitars everywhere i could, even E-bay.. most places were selling the king V's for over $1000 and occationally i saw 1 or two on ebay for a little less than that. Being as new to guitar as i am i was a bit worried about putting together my own...but warmoth had things i would not / could not be able to get for under $3000 from a custom shop and at least quite a few months of waiting...lets get into those things~

Reversed Headstock!! i hate the way the headstocks angle down on all of the V's it just looked so ugly and detracted from the guitar, however they didnt seem half as bad as a pickguard and a gibson-style headstock, so i was still leaning toward Jackson..

NO INLAYS!!! i think Ebony is a beautiful wood, i dont want to see Dots, Sharkfins, Paranah whatever...i want a CLEAN DARK slab of ebony with out all that other crap

NO FRETMARKERS!! these things totally annoy me ! i cant stand having them on my necks and i really dislike playing a guitar for more than 5 minutes if when i look down i see these little white/black dots all over the place if i want a dalmation ill go pick one up!!

TOGGLE SWITCHES!! i hate these also, im a HUGE fan of the blade-style 3+5 way switches, they seem much cleaner in my opinion

BEVELS!! i totally dislike the bevels on the King-V's they are already sharp enough without needing all the angles going everywhere also look kinda funky and make the body seem a bit more " slim "

SO!! Warmoth to the rescue!!

i had REVERSE CONSTRUCTION on my neck ( fixed the headstock problem )

i asked for a jetblack piece of ebony board, no inlays ( looks AMAZING by the way )

i asked for a white binding, no fret markers!!! ( was not a problem at ALL!! )

they routed out the electronic cavity for me and left the front blank ( i can totally customize the way I want the controlls to the way I think feels best to MY OWN hands )

no bevels? NO PROBLEM!! they totally left those off for me and i must say its exactly the style body im looking for


now!! before you all get into the " it doesnt matter how guitars look as long as they play good type thing " im with you ( somewhat ) however ( for me ) there wont be much drive to play my guitar if i dont like the way it looks, if it doesnt make me happy, playing wont make me happy, and thats not what im after~ im trying to learn! so why not have gear that makes me want to do so.. right ? right!!

COST!! the cost for this little piece of wooden perfection was just over $600 for me! ( 619.50 w/ shipping ) and i only had to wait 5 WEEKS!!! whats the turn around time on something custom from the jackson shop? ( i know its got to be over 2 months ..and well over $2000 ) so... $619 vs $2000 ? ill take the first one, 5 weeks or 8+ weeks ? ill again, take the first one.

i do realize that i still need to paint, get electronics+hardware for my guitar but i really dont see myself going over $1000 to finish it. ontop of that..its 1 of a kind and ill feel even better knowing that i got a nice little project under MY OWN belt

also judging by the quality of the parts i got in the mail, i really dont see this guitar having any less playability then somethig i would've spent over $2000 for..

i do realize that im probably a bit more nit-picky than most, so this type of scenario might not apply to them, but i think for the custom things you can get done to your guitar from warmoth, buying anything from another company is just paying a lot more for a name on the headstock.

 

[FretFire]

Re: For the "Hardcore Warmoth Fans".....

No offense, but if you haven't even applied a finish to the body you could very easily surpass $1000. Assuming you get a quality finish job and don't do it yourself. I wouldn't really recommend trying your first guitar finish job on a piece you hold so dearly.

 

[pac112]

Re: For the "Hardcore Warmoth Fans".....

Zerb, my thoughts exactly on all points of view!!! This is why you are my hero!!! :clap: :clap: :clap:

Zerb for President?

 

[pac112]

Re: For the "Hardcore Warmoth Fans".....

hey nuni, nice axe. dint thought you look like that tho.

 

[FretFire]

Re: For the "Hardcore Warmoth Fans".....

hey nuni, nice axe. dint thought you look like that tho.

I don't think that's him, that's one of that brand's builders :laugh2:.

 

[Colma]

Re: For the "Hardcore Warmoth Fans".....

No offense, but if you haven't even applied a finish to the body you could very easily surpass $1000. Assuming you get a quality finish job and don't do it yourself. I wouldn't really recommend trying your first guitar finish job on a piece you hold so dearly.

*cough* EDIT!!

i know someone who does body work =)...VERY nice work @ that, ill probably slide by with $100-200 for a neck+body finish =)

 

[Vasshu the humanoid typhoon]

Re: For the "Hardcore Warmoth Fans".....

that's one of that brand's builders

Nope that is the happy owner, Johnny builds them by himself, sometimes he gets help to some of the more mundane stuff, but he has his hands on everything, all instruments are pure custom stuff, people get what they ask for there.

 

[pac112]

Re: For the "Hardcore Warmoth Fans".....

I don't think that's him, that's one of that brand's builders :laugh2:.

just pulling his leg. hehhehe

this is a really serious thread.

*pulls poker face.