Friend has lent me 2 LP CUSTOMS!

Quencho092

New member
A good friend of mine who is a cardiologist by day, guitar collector/enthusiast by night has lent me 2 les paul customs so I could set them up! One is a 1997 Mahogany Carved top LP Custom (wine red or w/e the color is called), the other is an 89 Tobacco Burst I think.

I recorded some takes and will post them very soon along with pictures. I made some observations.
1- Both have a very pleasing core tone. It is hard to get intensely ice picky sounds, or anything remotely harsh.
2- Both have excellent top end. Something I have noticed about Les Pauls is how defined and sweet the top end is.
3-Middle position on the pickup switch is fantastic for all sorts of rhythm and lead work. The guitars absolutely wail.
4-The 1997 LP Custom plays and sounds better than the 89.

Negatives, not many. I intonated them as perfectly as possible, set the action so notes ring out and there's no buzz. I compared them to my strat with seth in the neck, and believe it or not, I think my strat does the Les Paul sound better than these two Customs. After comparing takes with the same mic, same preamp settings, my strat is more articulate, slightly more musical, and I can force a broader dynamic range out of it than the LP's. I have to REALLY REALLY listen closely to be able to tell a difference at all between the tracks though, they all sound like the same guitar with extremely minute differences in treble frequency response and attack.

What I LOVE about the LP's is that when you dig in more, it doesn't necessarily attack harder and harder, it tends to sustain and sing longer instead. They seem to be much more user friendly than my strat, more effortless to play, the ebony feels incredible under my finger tips, fretwork is fantastic, bends are easier (it could also be the 10's on there, but the shorter scale probably helps).

In terms of the recorded sound, this experience has extinguished my LP GAS instead of setting it aflame as they fail to set themselves apart from my strat. I can 'feel' the difference more than I can 'hear' the difference, the end product is way too close to tell. The LP's certainly don't sound like they're worth 2000 dollars more than my strat, and is a lesson for me. It's more for cosmetics and player comfort/pleasure, and if I had disposable income I'd own one AFTER I've purchased a 335, a 175 or L5 copy ala Heritage, and a proper Tele. Clips and photos coming soon!
 
Re: Friend has lent me 2 LP CUSTOMS!

Don't get me wrong, I love how these guitars play, look and sound...this experience just tells me that it is not practical to own one. A good PAF in a strat and thick strings SOUNDS almost identical, and the minor differences in sound give the Fender the slight edge IMO, as well as the fact that I don't mind abusing my strat. The LP's play easier though, just not 3000 dollars 'easier', for that I'll get an instrument that actually sounds worlds apart from a PAF strat like an L5 copy or a Heritage 575 spruce top hollow.

I'm going to post clips in a bit using a neumann TLM 109>Great River Neve copy Preamp>Sonar, and I won't label which one is the strat and the LP's neck position. The middle and bridge are night and day between the 3 guitars. Here are the pics!

1997 LP Custom Carved Top
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1989 LP Custom with Bill Lawrence pickups stock! 3 Piece Mahogany Carved Top

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Re: Friend has lent me 2 LP CUSTOMS!

Well, you've certainly got Les Pauls all figured out. Congratulations.
 
Re: Friend has lent me 2 LP CUSTOMS!

Fantastic, but there's no need to point out the carved top on the one and the Lawrences in the other. Unless I'm mistaken, all LPCs have been carved tops and the Gibson Lawrences were common in the late 80s. I've never had the chance to play them but a lot of people dislike them. I can't imagine why: L350s, Bill's take on PAF-type stuff, are some of my favorite pups. The sound thing, I can kind of agree with. In the context of a band, the differences are more or less lost. However, count me in the bass-ackwards camp for liking the LP ergonomics better than the Strat's. I don't like the way the belly cut gives a neck-out feel vs the neck-up from the LP, and even though it's a dc, the clunky bolt heel negates any access advantage it would gain over the singlecut LP. Either way, cool post, man. Customs are the top of the heap, IMHO!
 
Re: Friend has lent me 2 LP CUSTOMS!

Personally I find that the LP's have more difficult upper access than my strat. Perhaps it's the shape of the heel and how my hand fits the strat.

After playing these guitars for the past 12 hours and messing around with sounds, they have grown on me quite a bit. There's a happy medium for LP's in terms of finger pressure and right hand attack that gets a very sweet tone. The 89 has the most mids as well as midrange focus for a PAF type sound(in comparison to my PAF strat and the other LP). It also has incredible sustain, I don't see why it would be an undesirable guitar. It is a 3 piece body though.
 
Re: Friend has lent me 2 LP CUSTOMS!

Both beauties, although I prefer the '89. As for the Bill Lawrence "The Original" HB-R/HB-L Humbuckers...only made by Gibson in 1988 & 1989 and put in to a variety of models...

"The Gibson HB-R (neck position) and the HB-L (bridge position) 'The Original' Circuit-Board Humbuckers were the result of an exceptional collaboration between Bill Lawrence and Gibson when he re-joined the Gibson team in the late eighties. The HB-R & HB-L pickups are thought by many to combine the low-end aggressiveness of a Bill Lawrence 500-L with the precision of a Gibson Classic '57 Humbucker".


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You are absolutely right about them not being well received in the "Vintage Gibson Crowd" but I love 'em. Great design and great humbuckers. I've had more than a half dozen sets and still have two sets in my guitars; one in a 1982 LP Standard, the other in a Kramer Custom Telecaster. :headbang:
 
Re: Friend has lent me 2 LP CUSTOMS!

Interesting. I find the inability to get ice picky/harsh tones to be a weakness of LPs. And I would call the top end anything but defined, in general. More soft and creamy, if not plain muffled...as if playing though a tone knob that was turned down a couple of numbers. But the switch to Burstbuckers have taken care of a lot of that IME.

But they are some sweet guitars...especially that red one.
 
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Re: Friend has lent me 2 LP CUSTOMS!

^^ That's pretty wild. How do those solder pads hold up under repeated use?
 
Re: Friend has lent me 2 LP CUSTOMS!

You initial sound impression is the sustain block in the trem. The moment you have a sustain block the dynamics of the guitar change radically. If you only play with sustain blocks you will need some play time to adjust to short-scale fixed bridge guitar, otherwise you can't make it do what you want. Perfectly normal.

I have one of those pickups floating around. Maybe I should sell it. Not that anything sells these days :D
 
Re: Friend has lent me 2 LP CUSTOMS!

My strat isn't floating, so the sustain block is just there to make contact with the wood in the rear trem cavity, the top trem plate is barely touching wood and is stationary..

I find that the strat has a more intense attack than the LP's, could be the big strings + stationary non floating bridge. The les pauls also get VERY bright which I like, they just don't make your audience flinch when you really dig in like the strat can, which I like about the strat.

I think that if they all had seth lovers and the same string gauge I would have a much more difficult time being able to tell ANY difference in sound. I find that my ear becomes biased WHILE I'm playing the guitars and that affects what I perceive with respect to tone response, but the end results are so close.

I guess my point is that if I was recording for an artist/singer who hired me to do guitar tracks for their tune, and they wanted an LP sound, I could provide that with my strat OR a les paul with no problems and the artist won't complain or notice unless they see the guitar and think-IT'S A STRAT HES GOING TO SOUND LIKE KNOPFLER/HENDRIX/SRV!. So much of what we consider to be huge differences in tone between guitar bodies is what we SEE and how our personal bias/experience with a particular guitar affects how we actually perceive the sound. Even defending a certain guitar, not for the merits in its tone, but because of the fact that one paid tons of money for it.

I really want to try that Seth experiment, same pickups and electronics in multiple guitars, calibrating the pickup heights to produce the same amount of dB's, and trying to HEAR what makes different bodies sound different if at all.
 
Re: Friend has lent me 2 LP CUSTOMS!

My strat isn't floating, so the sustain block is just there to make contact with the wood in the rear trem cavity, the top trem plate is barely touching wood and is stationary..

That's a misconception. The major change in sound and (more importantly) how the guitar responds is still there if the sustain block is hard on the deck or blocked.

Trying taking a hardtail and convert to trem. Major difference. And you can't seriously think that half a pound of rolled steel just disappears. Imagine what it would be like if you anchored a Les Paul's strong through such a block driven into the wood.

Of course some of the "snap" in the Strat comes from the longer scale.

I really want to try that Seth experiment, same pickups and electronics in multiple guitars, calibrating the pickup heights to produce the same amount of dB's, and trying to HEAR what makes different bodies sound different if at all.

Half of this forum does that every day, the other half every weekend :)
 
Re: Friend has lent me 2 LP CUSTOMS!

You have a point about the steel block. It probably resonates as it transmits vibration to the wood, but the question is- CAN YOU REALLY HEAR IT ? Or is it just something that you feel as you play, and won't notice if you were listening to a series of blind test tracks?

I just think that after comparing mahogany/mahogany set neck, hard tail, shorter scale, even slightly different pickups (all PAF ballpark) vs all maple bolt on neck/alder/non floating strat trem; guitars that are WORLDS APART in terms of construction as well as the common belief that strats always sound totally different from LP's... Yet I can't hear the difference blind folded (only if I listen to the way I like to articulate a particular instrument and how I will tend to play on the LP's vs Strat).

I wonder if I could 'hear' the difference between a tune-o-matic strat, a floating strat, and a hard tail strat with the same PAF's. Especially after having serious trouble noticing any difference at all when comparing 2 types of solid body that should sound so different; I welcome the discovery of new observations but something tells me that the differences will be negligible in terms of recorded sound. I wonder if the same logic would apply for an ES-175 spruce top with Seth lovers, or a 335.

The beauty of being a musician is that I will FEEL a difference in every instrument that I play and it will affect my experience. This is what I want to PAY for when I'm looking for a guitar; the luxurious feel of the Les Pauls is what makes them unique and worth playing to me, not necessarily the sound because that difference becomes negligible as soon as the same pickups go in all the guitars that I'm comparing.

I'm happy about this observation because it de-mystifies guitar tone a bit and allows me to base all my future purchases on feel and looks rather than looking for the elusive 'best sounding solid body'.
 
Re: Friend has lent me 2 LP CUSTOMS!

Hell yeah man, awesome stuff.


I have an LPC (full disclosure: it's an Epiphone) and a Strat that has had various humbuckers in various arrangements, and they sound really different to me. I think it's cool that your observation was that that their sound was similar - it kind of proves that all of us are listening for something different.

I could be focusing on the timbre of the attack, and you could be focusing on the EQ of a ringing chord, or any number of other characteristics.

Think about that - it's totally awesome.
 
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Re: Friend has lent me 2 LP CUSTOMS!

Imagine what it would be like if you anchored a Les Paul's strong through such a block driven into the wood.

That's exactly what the First Act Lola I have up for sale has...strings feed through a sustain block that sits flush w/the back of the body and resides up into the body which is topped w/a fixed stop stop bar that I presume is attached to the block. Brightens things up considerably.
 
Re: Friend has lent me 2 LP CUSTOMS!

You have a point about the steel block. It probably resonates as it transmits vibration to the wood, but the question is- CAN YOU REALLY HEAR IT ? Or is it just something that you feel as you play, and won't notice if you were listening to a series of blind test tracks?

Yes of course. I put a callaham Trem into a former hardtail.

The difference between a hard bridge and a sustain block tremolo is one of the largest in guitar construction.

Just have a look at how boomy a Strat neck pickup in a hardtail Strat can be.
 
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