Full Review of Line 6/Bogner Spider Valve
- Thread starter Gearjoneser
- Start date
MikeS
Bengalsologist
Re: Full Review of Line 6/Bogner Spider Valve
I wondered what those would sound like, thanks so much for the review. Modeling technology is so attractive for me, and I doubted that Bogner would put his name on anything that didn't meet his expectations. This sounds like something I shouldn't go test drive because I might buy one.
I wondered what those would sound like, thanks so much for the review. Modeling technology is so attractive for me, and I doubted that Bogner would put his name on anything that didn't meet his expectations. This sounds like something I shouldn't go test drive because I might buy one.
sosomething
Seymour Duncan Customer Support
Re: Full Review of Line 6/Bogner Spider Valve
Fantastic review.
Thanks for lighting a new fire under my ass.
No more POD x3 gas for me... now I want one of these things for home.
Fantastic review.
Thanks for lighting a new fire under my ass.
No more POD x3 gas for me... now I want one of these things for home.
sosomething
Seymour Duncan Customer Support
Re: Full Review of Line 6/Bogner Spider Valve
You don't need to be smart to make spaghetti, I says!
Start selling some stuff! And what's more important? Tone, or your wife trying to get smart? :33:
You don't need to be smart to make spaghetti, I says!
ratherdashing
Kablamminator
Re: Full Review of Line 6/Bogner Spider Valve
Yeah, but if she gets her degree she'll be making big money as a pharmacist and buying me gear. Short term pain for long term gain!
I have a feeling that if I end up trying one of these, I'll be debating the relative merits of my AmStd Strat ...
Yeah, but if she gets her degree she'll be making big money as a pharmacist and buying me gear. Short term pain for long term gain!
I have a feeling that if I end up trying one of these, I'll be debating the relative merits of my AmStd Strat ...
sosomething
Seymour Duncan Customer Support
Re: Full Review of Line 6/Bogner Spider Valve
You'd better start learning how to make spaghetti!
You'd better start learning how to make spaghetti!
J Moose
New member
Re: Full Review of Line 6/Bogner Spider Valve
You had me until that...
So really, you get the impression that it's not very different then plugging a 'bean' into a regular tube power amp, like the FX return on my Rivera?
Hmmmm...
You had me until that...
So really, you get the impression that it's not very different then plugging a 'bean' into a regular tube power amp, like the FX return on my Rivera?
Hmmmm...
Gr8Scott
Wookieologist
Re: Full Review of Line 6/Bogner Spider Valve
Same here. Hearing that doesn't get me all moist in my nethers. :bigeyes2::bigeyes::19:
Same here. Hearing that doesn't get me all moist in my nethers. :bigeyes2::bigeyes::19:
MikeS
Bengalsologist
Re: Full Review of Line 6/Bogner Spider Valve
Hey, where can I get me one of those?
Hey, where can I get me one of those?
Gearjoneser
Gear Ho
Re: Full Review of Line 6/Bogner Spider Valve
Well, that's essentially what it is. Instead of a tube preamp, you've got Line 6's modeler voiced as good as possible. Reinhold Bogner built a less expensive version of a Shiva power section for it. There's also 2 12AX7's, but I haven't researched what purpose they serve. I wonder if Bogner did what Vox did and use them as a mini power section. Vox fed that mini tube power section into a SS amp. Maybe Bogner fed that mini tube section into a tube power section? I have no idea.
With a tube amp, your low volume suffers because tube amps require some volume.
With this, the low volume is like a regular modeler, and the more you turn it up, the more it sounds like any all-tube amp.
As far as midgain tones.....no you won't nail a JTM 45 or plexi, but you'll come as close to it as any modeler has thus far. Midgain will always be the weakest point on a modeling preamp, but a tube power section and Vintage 30 really help it to sound authentic.
At the store, I didn't care about the Sam Ash employees....I cranked that sucker!
I was playing everything from country chicken pickin to blues, to AC/DC, VH, Metallica, and on the heavy channels, I was sometimes just crunching E chords for 5 minutes straight. I wanted to really know how the gain and low end response was. It may have been annoying to the salesmen, but they knew what I was after.
I can't wait till they have the whole 100W halfstack, because I'm going to wring that thing out. The combo was very cool, but I want to hear those models on a closed back 4-12.
Well, that's essentially what it is. Instead of a tube preamp, you've got Line 6's modeler voiced as good as possible. Reinhold Bogner built a less expensive version of a Shiva power section for it. There's also 2 12AX7's, but I haven't researched what purpose they serve. I wonder if Bogner did what Vox did and use them as a mini power section. Vox fed that mini tube power section into a SS amp. Maybe Bogner fed that mini tube section into a tube power section? I have no idea.
With a tube amp, your low volume suffers because tube amps require some volume.
With this, the low volume is like a regular modeler, and the more you turn it up, the more it sounds like any all-tube amp.
As far as midgain tones.....no you won't nail a JTM 45 or plexi, but you'll come as close to it as any modeler has thus far. Midgain will always be the weakest point on a modeling preamp, but a tube power section and Vintage 30 really help it to sound authentic.
At the store, I didn't care about the Sam Ash employees....I cranked that sucker!
I was playing everything from country chicken pickin to blues, to AC/DC, VH, Metallica, and on the heavy channels, I was sometimes just crunching E chords for 5 minutes straight. I wanted to really know how the gain and low end response was. It may have been annoying to the salesmen, but they knew what I was after.
I can't wait till they have the whole 100W halfstack, because I'm going to wring that thing out. The combo was very cool, but I want to hear those models on a closed back 4-12.
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Hot _Grits
Buttery Toneologist
Re: Full Review of Line 6/Bogner Spider Valve
I read that the two 12ax7s are used as a gain recovery stage after the digital 'tone stack' and as a typical phase inverter, which I consider as part of the power section.
I read that the two 12ax7s are used as a gain recovery stage after the digital 'tone stack' and as a typical phase inverter, which I consider as part of the power section.
Gr8Scott
Wookieologist
Re: Full Review of Line 6/Bogner Spider Valve
Hmm... Sounds interesting. Seems like I need to take a peek at one at the very least.
Hmm... Sounds interesting. Seems like I need to take a peek at one at the very least.
Gearjoneser
Gear Ho
Re: Full Review of Line 6/Bogner Spider Valve
Thanks for that info. So, the first 12AX7 is used to make the modeling preamp have the same output as a tube preamp section would? And the second 12AX7 is the phase inverter....like all tube amps have?
Hmmm. I really liked the amp, and might get one, but I need to hear it some more. I wrote a pretty glowing review, but I also had a $2500 PRS and $1600 Strat plugged into it. Your mileage may vary, especially if you plug a $350 guitar into it.
I'm just happy that they sell for $699. In a year or so, you'll see some used for $500. With an amp like this, I think I'd want the warranty though, just because it's new technology. There's no telling what can happen with a hot power section sitting right next to....essentially a computer with chips in it.
Thanks for that info. So, the first 12AX7 is used to make the modeling preamp have the same output as a tube preamp section would? And the second 12AX7 is the phase inverter....like all tube amps have?
Hmmm. I really liked the amp, and might get one, but I need to hear it some more. I wrote a pretty glowing review, but I also had a $2500 PRS and $1600 Strat plugged into it. Your mileage may vary, especially if you plug a $350 guitar into it.
I'm just happy that they sell for $699. In a year or so, you'll see some used for $500. With an amp like this, I think I'd want the warranty though, just because it's new technology. There's no telling what can happen with a hot power section sitting right next to....essentially a computer with chips in it.
J Moose
New member
Re: Full Review of Line 6/Bogner Spider Valve
Bummer.
I'll still give these a whirl but now my hopes of something "new" and groundbreaking are beyond somewhat diminished.
Guess I'll be sticking to a 'bean' plugged into the FX return of a tube amp for radical & comprehensive tone tone sculpting.
At least it's all in one box now?!
Anyway, I'd imagine or at least hope, that one 12ax7 is up front & the first thing the guitar sees before the digital preamp, then another after as the phase inverter.
Bummer.
I'll still give these a whirl but now my hopes of something "new" and groundbreaking are beyond somewhat diminished.
Guess I'll be sticking to a 'bean' plugged into the FX return of a tube amp for radical & comprehensive tone tone sculpting.
At least it's all in one box now?!
Anyway, I'd imagine or at least hope, that one 12ax7 is up front & the first thing the guitar sees before the digital preamp, then another after as the phase inverter.
Gr8Scott
Wookieologist
Re: Full Review of Line 6/Bogner Spider Valve
MF is selling the head for $799. http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Line-6-Spider-Valve-100HD-100W-Guitar-Amp-Head?sku=487071
MF is selling the head for $799. http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Line-6-Spider-Valve-100HD-100W-Guitar-Amp-Head?sku=487071
ratherdashing
Kablamminator
Re: Full Review of Line 6/Bogner Spider Valve
I think this is right, especially considering that most stand-alone tube power amps have at least one 12AX7 in them along with the power tubes. I think this is the same thing.
Example: http://www.mesaboogie.com/Product_Info/Stereo_Power/Simul_2_Ninety/simul_2_ninety.html
The MESA 2:90 has three 12AX7's in it.
I think this is right, especially considering that most stand-alone tube power amps have at least one 12AX7 in them along with the power tubes. I think this is the same thing.
Example: http://www.mesaboogie.com/Product_Info/Stereo_Power/Simul_2_Ninety/simul_2_ninety.html
The MESA 2:90 has three 12AX7's in it.
