Full Review of Line 6/Bogner Spider Valve

[ratherdashing]

Re: Full Review of Line 6/Bogner Spider Valve

One thing I think they really made a good decision on with this amp is the model choices. Instead of trying to emulate 20 or 30 specific vintage amps (as with the Pods and most of their amp line) they chose a relatively small set of non-specific models that complement the power section. It's not going to please the people who want a pretend Matchless Chieftain in a $700 Chinese-made box, but those people are idiots anyway.

 

[suislidE03]

Re: Full Review of Line 6/Bogner Spider Valve

Well, that's essentially what it is. Instead of a tube preamp, you've got Line 6's modeler voiced as good as possible. Reinhold Bogner built a less expensive version of a Shiva power section for it. There's also 2 12AX7's, but I haven't researched what purpose they serve. I wonder if Bogner did what Vox did and use them as a mini power section. Vox fed that mini tube power section into a SS amp. Maybe Bogner fed that mini tube section into a tube power section? I have no idea.

Well what I am seeing is that you made a parallel comparison to the POD into a tube power amp. I think you should get nitpicky with the details on this comparison since it seems they are so similar and many people use it. Otherwise, its just another opinionated review of another amp. (even though we respect yours to a great deal, and are thankful for it!)

 

[barbarianbrute]

Re: Full Review of Line 6/Bogner Spider Valve

i heard it demoed the other day and it sounded like a pod xt plugged into a tube amp.

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: Full Review of Line 6/Bogner Spider Valve

Well what I am seeing is that you made a parallel comparison to the POD into a tube power amp. I think you should get nitpicky with the details on this comparison since it seems they are so similar and many people use it. Otherwise, its just another opinionated review of another amp. (even though we respect yours to a great deal, and are thankful for it!)

Well actually, a POD XT into a tube amp would be MORE versatile than the Spider Valve, because you'd also have dozens more amps, FX, cab models etc.
The main difference is that Line 6 and Bogner collaborated and tweaked everything to match up perfectly. They specifically voiced everything to sound like a normal tube amp.

I've never done it, but I'd like to put a POD Pro XT on something like a Mesa or VHT tube power amp, and compare it to the Spider Valve halfstack.
I'd be curious to know which rig I'd rather listen to and play through.

 

[ratherdashing]

Re: Full Review of Line 6/Bogner Spider Valve

Well actually, a POD XT into a tube amp would be MORE versatile than the Spider Valve, because you'd also have dozens more amps, FX, cab models etc.
The main difference is that Line 6 and Bogner collaborated and tweaked everything to match up perfectly. They specifically voiced everything to sound like a normal tube amp.

Exactly. The power section is designed to complement the modeller and vise versa. This is a far better solution than plugging a Pod into a tube power amp - neither one is designed for the other. Pod + power amp would be more versatile, but it probably wouldn't sound as good.

I've never done it, but I'd like to put a POD Pro XT on something like a Mesa or VHT tube power amp, and compare it to the Spider Valve halfstack.
I'd be curious to know which rig I'd rather listen to and play through.

Honestly, it's pretty hit and miss. I've plugged my Pod XT bean (which, for that purpose, is the same as the Pod XT Pro) into almost every type of power amp you can think of. Through the power section of several different Marshall and Mesa amps, it sounded terrible. It was not bad through a Mesa 20:20 power amp, but not any better than a solid state power section. Most of the models sounded boomy and mushy.

I think if you sit down with the Pod and tweak obsessively until you get a good tone through your tube amp, it can sound pretty good. You'd have to make a whole new set of presets just for that purpose though, because your stand-alone presets will sound like junk.

In general, I think this is a much better idea than plugging a Pod into a tube power amp.

 

[J Moose]

Re: Full Review of Line 6/Bogner Spider Valve

I've never done it, but I'd like to put a POD Pro XT on something like a Mesa or VHT tube power amp, and compare it to the Spider Valve halfstack.
I'd be curious to know which rig I'd rather listen to and play through.

That's something I've done lots & lots of times... not for myself, but if I'm making a record for some band & the player is "married" to the tones in his kidney bean...

Take the output of that and run it into the FX return of a head like my JCM800 or a Boogie or something and run that into a good cab.

I've also gotten some good "pod" tones from plugging one into a small amp like a Champ or Ampeg Jet...

Way more organic then a pod straight into the desk... sits in the mix better too.

So, if this new Spidervalve is just rolling that concept into one package... it won't be offering anything all that new... not to ME at least!

 

[millsart]

Re: Full Review of Line 6/Bogner Spider Valve

I've tried a pod into the loop of a decent tube amp and while it did sound a little better, especially on some patches where I wanted a little breakup and that extra powertube saturation really added, to the "realism" one thing always left me quite flat.

The digital input section. Its just not very organic or reactive and I'd have to belive that the new SV will still have that issue as its got the digital section in its signal path.


I've always loved how certain pedals respond to certain amps, or how certain pedals can driver another pedal, such as an OD in front of a distortion. You just can't do that with anything digital because it simply clips in a horrible sounding digital nature.

Running an OD, Distortion and Wah into the input of a tube amp just sounds quite different than running that into a Pod (ive had the XT, and the 2.0)

I'm obviously a huge Hendrix fan and just love the crazy nature of his live rigs. That sound of a fuzz face and wah (without "fuzz friendly" technology") just sounds so musical to my ears.

Putting my fuzz face into my POD sure didn't get it, and the models in the POD sure didn't model it either.


I really do want to give the amp a try, but I'd also half wishing they had an option to leave the digital section on bypass and just give me a nice Bogner designed 40 watt all tube combo for $699

Maybe have a couple of analog tone stacks modules you can select from and then you've got a heck of an amp for the money.

Of course thats going in the oppostie direction of what LIne6 does lol

 

[Skarekrough]

Re: Full Review of Line 6/Bogner Spider Valve

Well actually, a POD XT into a tube amp would be MORE versatile than the Spider Valve, because you'd also have dozens more amps, FX, cab models etc.
The main difference is that Line 6 and Bogner collaborated and tweaked everything to match up perfectly. They specifically voiced everything to sound like a normal tube amp.

That was, and is, the appeal of the Atomic amp to me. They sat down and figured out how to voice the amp to compliment the modeler.

After using the Crate PowerBlock for a bit the Atomic just blew me away.

I'm interested in checking out this new amp though. Admittedly I'll only use maybe five models for gigging, but if it sounds more authentic than the Atomic and POD combo I'm more than happy to unload my gigging rig for the sake of simplicity.

 

[JeffB]

Re: Full Review of Line 6/Bogner Spider Valve

I'll give one a listen before final judgement, but this...

....With this, the low volume is like a regular modeler, and the more you turn it up, the more it sounds like any all-tube amp.

That describes the Atomic Reactor to a "T" (based on my experience having owned one for a year + using both a POD XTL and the Vox ToneLab SE)

And if that's the case, an Atomic and POD XT/XTL will be FAR FAR FAR more versatile and tweakable for the same or less $. Not to mention the closed back Atomic thumps like a closed back 2x12 (or some lesser 4x12s)

 

[beggar_guitar]

Re: Full Review of Line 6/Bogner Spider Valve

Great review. So tempting man. The Only thing I wish this amp had was Vetta's ability to run 2 amps at once. That's such a great tone shaping feature for a live setting.

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: Full Review of Line 6/Bogner Spider Valve

OK, after last night's honeymoon phase...

I walked into GC on the way home, wondering if they had any yet. This time it was a 2-12 combo. Now, I'll be much more critical. I plugged a LP and a new Joe Strummer Mexican reliced tele into it. I LOVED the Joe Strummer relic. It's the best Mexican tele I've ever picked up.....I thought it was a Custom Shop till I saw the M in the serial number! $899.

Anyway, I again cranked the crap out of it in the amp room, playing every type of music I know on it from crystal clean to punishing metal. Here's some revision on my original review...This time all the negatives, not the positives.

First, I'm not so excited about it's reverb as much as yesterday in a big ambient room.
I played it in a dead sounding amp room, and thought it was too extreme and a bit more digital sounding than I remember it yesterday. I found myself just barely turning it on, to make it as natural as possible. In all fairness, even tube amps are guilty of this....besides Fender.

Next, the blues setting was more difficult to get a true blues tone from. I found myself mostly using it for a Cult type sound.....like Love and Electric albums.

I think it may be the open back cab, but some of the tones seemed a bit indistinct and mushy, unless I really spent time getting them dialed with the EQ and presence. I'm sure the closed back 4-12 will dish out tighter low end.

Surprisingly, the amp has a great midrange control, which really helped with the Marshall type settings. They finally got the Marshall tones better than in the past.

This amp is really tailor made for metal. Once I got all the settings in place, the highgain models really kicked. I was playing all the metal songs I knew that had the same tones as the amp was delivering. For all those wondering if it's quiet enough to use in an apartment...it really will do that quite well. However, the amp could stand to have a noisegate like the Vox, because when I cranked it, there was more noise and feedback than I'm used to with the real Bogner.

Finally, Line 6 is going to have to address a real problem RIGHT NOW. The metal panel which has the logo on it isn't tight enough against the cab to be silent. I rattles like crazy and drove me nuts. At first, I thought it was the tubes, but once I put my hand on the panel, it stopped. It's not the logo, it's the metal panels on both sides of it.
If I owned the amp, I'd remove it, and put some silicon glue on the back of it, and reinstall it.

 

[Animal]

Re: Full Review of Line 6/Bogner Spider Valve

In general, I think this is a much better idea than plugging a Pod into a tube power amp.

Yep, the fact that whole unit is designed around digital modeling and tubes in theory should make the Spidervalve a superior execution of the two technologies than plugging a POD into a tube amp.

In my experience, most digital modelers sound like trash running straight into the input of a tube amp. Running into the effects return of a tube amp will sound a bit better.

IMO the by far best configuration is to run a modeler into a dedicated tube power amp. My Yamaha DG-stomp sounds MUCH better running into my Mesa Fifty/Fifty. Put a BBE sonicmaximizer in the chain and it sounds even more punchy. While it's still far from a real tube amp it's certainly makes a modeler much more fun to use.

The problem with the configuration aboves is that it's quite expensive, heavy and lil' bit complex for the beginner. An amp design such as the Spidervalve only makes this setup more affordable and easy to setup not to mention the advantages of having the pre, power amp and cabinet designed for each other.

 

[lex666]

Re: Full Review of Line 6/Bogner Spider Valve

Question: Is there an option for a foot controller? I'd like to be able to switch between pre sets or at least be able to turn on/off the effects...

 

[ratherdashing]

Re: Full Review of Line 6/Bogner Spider Valve

Question: Is there an option for a foot controller? I'd like to be able to switch between pre sets or at least be able to turn on/off the effects...

It uses the Line 6 FBV foot controllers, same as the Pod and Vetta. The cool thing is they use CAT5 (network) cable to connect, which means you can buy lots of it for pretty cheap.

 

[skyydogg01]

Re: Full Review of Line 6/Bogner Spider Valve

you guys just convinced me more to buy this sucker.

 

[That90'sGuy]

Re: Full Review of Line 6/Bogner Spider Valve

Very cool amp, just played one an hour or two ago. Definitely a very versatile amp! Never messed around with the effects, but played around from the cleans to blues to crunch to metal settings and they all sound pretty good to my ears.

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: Full Review of Line 6/Bogner Spider Valve

Very cool amp, just played one an hour or two ago. Definitely a very versatile amp! Never messed around with the effects, but played around from the cleans to blues to crunch to metal settings and they all sound pretty good to my ears.

Not bad, huh? Did you realize how easy it is to make it explode with volume and feedback by changing amps? It scared the crap out of me a couple times. You've really got to turn the guitar's volume all the way down anytime you touch something on the amp, otherwise you can accidentally hit a loud patch.

 

[That90'sGuy]

Re: Full Review of Line 6/Bogner Spider Valve

Not bad, huh? Did you realize how easy it is to make it explode with volume and feedback by changing amps? It scared the crap out of me a couple times. You've really got to turn the guitar's volume all the way down anytime you touch something on the amp, otherwise you can accidentally hit a loud patch.

Yes, I did and I'm glad I read your review before trying it out

I really only scratched the surface of the amplifier, there were little things I didn't spend enough time to figure out like when changing models why I could select each model with a blue or yellow led (I'm assuming one is for effects or something?). It is odd that no matter where you set the volume, whenever you change patches it's insanely loud (I found rolling back the volume a touch resets it to your set levels). I kept from scaring people today, but I have a feeling a lot of folks are going to be lighting those up in GCs around the US

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: Full Review of Line 6/Bogner Spider Valve

Yes, I did and I'm glad I read your review before trying it out

I really only scratched the surface of the amplifier, there were little things I didn't spend enough time to figure out like when changing models why I could select each model with a blue or yellow led (I'm assuming one is for effects or something?). It is odd that no matter where you set the volume, whenever you change patches it's insanely loud (I found rolling back the volume a touch resets it to your set levels). I kept from scaring people today, but I have a feeling a lot of folks are going to be lighting those up in GCs around the US

Totally!! Music store clerks are going to HATE this amp. No other modeling amp is like it. Anytime you select another amp, it's almost like the friggin thing is on 10!!! I'm not sure, but I think the yellow and blue LED's are 2 different voicings of the same amp model.

I always think that guys who cause WWIII on an amp in a store are morons, and I never do it. I did it twice, and everyone in the store looked at me like I was a moron! I was like.....sorry, I swear, it's the amp, not me!!! LOL

 

[pinto79]

Re: Full Review of Line 6/Bogner Spider Valve

I've been using my Line 6 AX2 plugged into a Peavey Classic 50/50 and into a couple of cabs for a while now and it really gives the whole amp a new feel and dynamic.

I can see the Spidervalve being a long lasting member of the Line 6 family. I'm looking forward to trying one.