Full Shred Pole Piece & Magnet Swap

10Terp

New member
Hi all.

First post here. I have a Charvel Pro Mod DK24 HSS - I absolutely love the guitar, but I just can’t get along with the Full Shred in the bridge. For me, it’s too bright and not great at metal chugging.Before committing to a new pickup, I decided to buy some filister pole piece screws and a few magnets, A2, A8, and C8 (the magnets are so cheap I figured I’d buy several).

I’m trying to figure out what order to try things out to get the sound I want. I have a Strat with a SD hot rails in the bridge, and I love the way that pickup sounds. I’ve come to realize I like bite in the mids and upper bass, which the hot rails delivers.

So my question is, what magnet should I try first?

My plan is to try swapping the pole pieces, and if I’m not happy with that move on to magnet swapping.

Thanks!
 
I had a DK24 HSS FR that i put filister screws into the bridge side coil. That reduced the treble response just very slightly with slightly increased low end. I also did this mod plus an A8 Magnet into a Schecter. Great results with that one-does great death metal tuned to B. I think that will get you the result you want.
 
You can try a ceramic magnet and also change the row of hex heads towards the bridge for normal length filister screws, that'll get it pretty close to a Custom. And the Custom can chuggggggg. Oh, also Alnico 8 in the JB or the Custom is magic.
 
I'm gonna jump to the end here; As much as poles and mags can change a pickup - if you feel that way about the Full Shred, you have the wrong pickup.

Go for a swap. I can see how one would not have enough "heft" for great chugging. Just get a Custom and call it a day.
 
I just did a pickup switcheroo between my rg520qs and my ec256.

The full shreds are now back in the rg, and I shoulda left well enough alone. They Mesh so well with the tonality of the guitar.
Oh, and I tried the original hex poles again in both pickups and instantly hated them, still. The neck sounds best with all filisters.
I tried the bridge with one row and STILL did not like it. Back to double filister for good!
The best way to put it is if the hex poles make for a modern sound, double filister is rhe classic version of that. Classic tight and bright.
 
Hi all.

First post here. I have a Charvel Pro Mod DK24 HSS - I absolutely love the guitar, but I just can’t get along with the Full Shred in the bridge. For me, it’s too bright and not great at metal chugging.Before committing to a new pickup, I decided to buy some filister pole piece screws and a few magnets, A2, A8, and C8 (the magnets are so cheap I figured I’d buy several).

I’m trying to figure out what order to try things out to get the sound I want. I have a Strat with a SD hot rails in the bridge, and I love the way that pickup sounds. I’ve come to realize I like bite in the mids and upper bass, which the hot rails delivers.

So my question is, what magnet should I try first?

My plan is to try swapping the pole pieces, and if I’m not happy with that move on to magnet swapping.

Thanks!
Welcome onboard.

Hot rails are a different animal, with a specific way to filter harmonics due to their narrower coils and a higher inductance than a Full Shred... It seems logical to feel the latter as brighter sounding.

Among the magnets that you mention, I'd personally try A2 first. It should increase inductance the most and give the weakest magnetic field, both factors contributing to a warmer tone. C8 might make it worse than it is, by decreasing the inductance and doubling the magnetic flux strenght... I'd spontaneously rank A8 in between... but nothing is worth trial and error with such things so, take this paragraph with a grain of salt. ;-)

That said, there are other ways than magnets and screw poles to tame a bright passive pickup. You might try a resistor between hot and ground wires of your bridge humbucker: start with 270k or 220k for example. It will mimic pots of lower value and flatten the high harmonics of the bridge PU. A low value capacitor in the same position should also drag its "resonant frequency" closer to the response of an Hot Rails. Start with 330pF, adjust to taste.
Such resistors and capacitors can be used altogether* if necessary and are cheap components, easy to try: while your bridge PU is selected, use alligator clips to connect them from hot to ground of a cable with screwable jack plug, for instance... It takes a few seconds.

Now, do what you want and be happy. Good luck in your experiments.

*Example of a well known brand mounting "tuning" resistors and capacitors from hot to ground on their pickups themselves (!):

PRSsilverSkyPusWithTuningComponents.webp



EDIT- BTW, my boring reply above was based on the following sentence:

Before committing to a new pickup, I decided to buy some filister pole piece screws and a few magnets

You seem to want to tinker before to spend money, so I've replied accordingly.

If I had decided to talk about a new pickup, I would have underlined that very few full-sized humbuckers can rivalize with the enormous inductance of the Hot Rails bridge (that I have myself in one of my main stage guitars) and that none will comb filter harmonics in the same way... So the solution might simply be another Hot Rails mounted in something like this:


Anecdotically, here is something to contextualize my advices above (I've disagreed many times with the author of the following topic in other contexts but what he explains below matches our experiments and my experience of these last decades, FWIW):
 
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Hi all.

First post here. I have a Charvel Pro Mod DK24 HSS - I absolutely love the guitar, but I just can’t get along with the Full Shred in the bridge. For me, it’s too bright and not great at metal chugging.Before committing to a new pickup, I decided to buy some filister pole piece screws and a few magnets, A2, A8, and C8 (the magnets are so cheap I figured I’d buy several).

I’m trying to figure out what order to try things out to get the sound I want. I have a Strat with a SD hot rails in the bridge, and I love the way that pickup sounds. I’ve come to realize I like bite in the mids and upper bass, which the hot rails delivers.

So my question is, what magnet should I try first?

My plan is to try swapping the pole pieces, and if I’m not happy with that move on to magnet swapping.

Let us know what the pole pieces accomplish.

The Hot Rails bridge is similar to a Duncan Distortion. The DD has 3 ceramic magnets and awg44 wire, so you won't approach it with the FS no matter what you do. Obviously I would try the ceramic magnet first.
 
Again - we have a 90% problem and we are recommending 10% fixes.

This is fundamentally the wrong pickup for this player/guitar.
I would tend to agree.

Funnily enough, I also have a Full Shred in the bridge of my DK24 and I don't have an issue with it when it comes to dat chug life. But it does require some EQ love to get into decent chug territory.
 
I agree with the notion that a magnet swap is probably not going to fully transform a Full Shred from something you hate into something you love.

My experience with magnet swaps is that it always sounds like x pickup, just with a different magnet. Meaning just a notch in a certan different direction, but I feel like the character of the wind always remains.

Personally, if you want that big a radical change, I would stick both an A8 or an oversized Ceramic in there, and all Filister polepieces. See if that's enough. If not, add a lower value pot to the equation.
 
There's a 10% chance the 10% fix may work, why not experiment first? :)

Go ahead. Can;t hurt. But as an old man who has modded pickups, been there, done that, this ain't gonna do it.

Not saying there is not something to be learned from the experience. I agree that way too many people go full pup swap when some poles or a mag will really address the issue. I still feel this is the opposite problem.
 
In order to contextualize my own humble attempt to help (and for the fun, mine at least), let's share a few spectral analysis of humbuckers played in chords, direct to the board.

Below is a hi-gain HB (not a Full Shred but having the same inductance), fitted with an A5 then a C8 magnet. Magnetism is obviously much stronger with C8, which also decreases inductance. Stronger magnetism bumps a bit the low mids but paired with the lower inductance, it mainly makes the pickup noticeably brighter (of 3 to 9dB, depending on the high frequencies considered). With A8, the frequency response should be between the orange and blue line. With A2, it should be under the orange line for all frequencies above 1khz approximatively (IOW: for harmonics).

C8vsA5hb.webp

Now, here is a Hot Rails vs a DiMarzio X2N, which is one of the rare mainstream full sized humbuckers to have almost as much inductance as the Hot Rails. The X2N has three ceramic magnets, giving a wider and more powerful magnetic field. That and the full sized coils + wide rails give a bit more output level and much more bass than what the Hot Rails delivers.

X2NvsHotRails.webp

Just to be sure, below is the Hot Rails vs the first humbucker with C8 mag (now in orange). Like with the X2N but for opposite reasons, hard to obtain something more mismatched. The same kind of mismatching is probably what makes the Full Shred apparently "too bright" in the case discussed here.

HotRailsVsCer8hb.webp

Finally and for grin, below is something that I've already shared: the response of a same passive humbucker through 1ft vs 50ft of cable (whose parasitic capacitance values are respectively around 44pF and 2240pF). It would be easy to obtain the same response than in the red/orange line from a 2,2nF capacitor between hot to ground, according to the good ol' recipe shared back in the days by uncle Bill Lawrence (RIP, his legacy of pickups designer remains sadly underrated IMHO).

SameHB50fTvs1fTof Cable.webp

I won't waste our time by discussing to decide if it's a 10% or 90% solution. I won't even claim it's a viable solution for any player who hasn't at disposal the components and lab gear available here and allowing to check objectively the effects of mods. I just know that a capacitor costs a few cents and takes a few seconds to connect from hot to ground of the jack plug at the output of the guitar, if one just wants to try such a cheap trick. Personally, I've applied it more than once. Yesterday at night, I was discussing again with a touring pro for whom I've done it (in a more subtle way than above, thanks to a lower value cap: under 1nF, such a component just tames the high harmonics. Above 1nF, it has a more noticeable effect, not always pleasing and requiring sometimes further tuning).

NOTE - As illustrated by the last pic above, increasing the capacitive load tends to rise the Q factor of any passive pickup. If it makes the sound too nasal, a resistor can be put in parallel with it, making less... peaky the resonant peak (obviously located somewhere around 1.5khz in the red/orange line of the last pic, IOW around the same prominent frequencies than with... the Hot Rails). Again an added resistor should cost only a few cents and a few seconds of experiment.

Sorry for this epic and therefore terribly boring stance: it's Sunday morning, I'm an old fart, I ramble accordingly. ,-)

I wish you all a nice day.
 
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Try the filisters first. Trust me. They're cheap and easy to swap.

I HATE the FS attack with the hex poles. It pushes towards a response that seems thin for some reason. I choose the filisters every time

Filisters lessen the attack, and I swear that the longer poles increase power a bit, thoughvthat could be placebo.

Just drop your tone to 6 or 7 for chugging. It has the added benefit of making the neck more liquidy under gain.

You can also simply bump up the bass on your amp to compensate. It works great! You sill get the funky tight attack but the balance is better.

Back in the days of forum pickup mods/mag swaps, A2 and A8 mags were popular to put in. Ceramics to a lesser extent.

I kinda see these as the duncans that are closest to dimarzios.
 
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