Fuzz and Wah placement/best fuzz to use with wah?

[stuey222]

I'm a bit confused on the subject. Fuzz before wah gives some good tones, but the wah acts more like a volume pedal than a wah. Wah before Fuzz gives some added noise when I try to use the wah, and it barely "wahs." I think it could be the fuzz, with the crappy silicon transistors, which I'm planning on fixing soon (gut the fuzz, new circuit). Any experience on fuzz vs. wah placement or which fuzz circuit works best with a wah?

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: Fuzz and Wah placement/best fuzz to use with wah?

It has nothing to do with the fuzz...the effect of the wah that is. Also, don't get too hung up on silicon being worse or something compared to germanium...both are great it's just a matter of taste...lots of guitar players with great tone prefer silicon fuzzes to germanium!

The issues you are talking about are an age old issue with a fuzz and a wah...it's an impedence mismatch and if you want to run your wah before your fuzz the only cure is a buffer between the 2.

Now, Im not sure what you mean about the wah acting like a volume pedal if placed after a fuzz...I've never had that issue but personally I much prefer the wah before the fuzz anyway so I rarely runn it like that.

What you need if you want the wah first is to install a FoxRox buffer in the wah, after that you'll be fine...the wah will cut through anything. Another option is the AnalogMan/ buffer...he puts the FoxRox buffer in a Phase 90 size box that let's you use it with any wah if you have more than one non buffered wah or if you have a high dollar vintage wah you'd rather not mod.

Another fix is a FFT Teese wah...all his new wahs have a FoxRox buffer built in brand new but you might not want a new wah...

 

[millsart]

Re: Fuzz and Wah placement/best fuzz to use with wah?

honestly all depends on what type of sound your after, as TGWIF already said, using a buffer such as FoxRox to solve the impedence issue is one way to go about it, and its what I do as I like wah before fuzz, and use a Teese wah but its all matter of taste

Plenty of people like the wah after the fuzz or elsewhere in the signal chain so its not "wrong" by any means, just different.

Further more, I know some people who don't like the buffer (or add a switch to turn it off) as they actually WANT the so called "problem". Why ?

Because Jimi had had that issue and didn't seem to mind it so why should they. Listen to some live recordings and you'll hear it but it was part of his sound, for the good or the bad.

So its all just a matter of taste and what your after.

Im happiest though with a buffer as it gives the most tonal options to find my own favorite sound.

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: Fuzz and Wah placement/best fuzz to use with wah?

All very good points!

I do know a few guys that do like the problem...it sounds more old school to them plus like Millsart said...it's the way Jimi did it, for me a buffer is a must with a fuzz because I prefer the wah before the fuzz however for some tones I'll go the other way...it all just depends!

 

[millsart]

Re: Fuzz and Wah placement/best fuzz to use with wah?

Jimi sometimes (but not always) had his octavia pedal between the wah and fuzz though as well which might of served as a sort of buffer. I don't know exactly what all Roger made for him, if it was true bypass or what not but that is one more thing to think about if your after the authentic Jimi tones of later era.

You can definatly hear tracks though where it was wah into Ge fuzzface and the oscilations and so forth that resulted certainly didn't ever lessen my enjoyment of his tone or playing.

 

[stuey222]

Re: Fuzz and Wah placement/best fuzz to use with wah?

I think the volume pedal effect has to do with the silicon transistors not being very dynamic, and they have a high gain too. I want to switch to a germanium circuit so I get more dynamics. "Crappy" describes the transistors, not the silicon, silicon can sound really good! So maybe a buffered wah, and a germanium fuzz going fuzz to wah would suit me? I really like the Hendrix-y sounds of fuzz then wah, but I'll try both with a buffer and see...

 

[thespricket]

Re: Fuzz and Wah placement/best fuzz to use with wah?

sorry to hijack the thread, but what about placement with a Wah and Overdrive? right now i have the wah after the overdrive, as the wah is last in my chain of two pedals and the overdrive is first.

Is this right? I have no problems with the sound coming from the wah or overdrive, but i just wanted to know if the is how it's normally done.

 

[stuey222]

Re: Fuzz and Wah placement/best fuzz to use with wah?

sorry to hijack the thread, but what about placement with a Wah and Overdrive? right now i have the wah after the overdrive, as the wah is last in my chain of two pedals and the overdrive is first.

Is this right? I have no problems with the sound coming from the wah or overdrive, but i just wanted to know if the is how it's normally done.

Usually wah is before overdrive, being that's how it was back when the wah was invented (wah>overdriven amp). So what you're doing is wahing the overdrive, which can be good, instead of overdriving the wah. Matter of taste, mainly, but if you're trying to cop vintage tones, wah to overdrive is best.

 

[thespricket]

Re: Fuzz and Wah placement/best fuzz to use with wah?

Usually wah is before overdrive, being that's how it was back when the wah was invented (wah>overdriven amp). So what you're doing is wahing the overdrive, which can be good, instead of overdriving the wah. Matter of taste, mainly, but if you're trying to cop vintage tones, wah to overdrive is best.

perfect, thanx. I'll just have to try switching them around to see what i like.

 

[stuey222]

Re: Fuzz and Wah placement/best fuzz to use with wah?

Is it possible to get a silicon fuzz to clean up when you turn down your guitar's volume?

 

[millsart]

Re: Fuzz and Wah placement/best fuzz to use with wah?

Is it possible to get a silicon fuzz to clean up when you turn down your guitar's volume?

Yes and no as it depends on the circuit. Some si fuzz will clean up quite nicely and others wont, typically because they are a higher gain fuzz.

Not all ge will clean up either keep in mind, the crucible ge fuzz is a very high gain aggressive ge fuzz and it doesn't clean up that well at all so you can't lump anything all together. Additionally the axis fuzz is quite aggressive and high gain but cleans up rather well.

 

[stuey222]

Re: Fuzz and Wah placement/best fuzz to use with wah?

Hmmm....so what changes in the circuit make it clean up the best?

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: Fuzz and Wah placement/best fuzz to use with wah?

I will tell you another thing that just hit me...

if your signal chain look just like it does in your signature try removing the tuner from the chain for a minute...running a buffered bypass box (like almost any Boss unit) in front of a fuzz pedal will really mess with not only the tone (it makes things VERY bright and harsh) but it will really mess with the ability of the pedal to clean up with your guitar.

Take your tuner out of the chain for a minute and see what happens...

 

[stuey222]

Re: Fuzz and Wah placement/best fuzz to use with wah?

I will tell you another thing that just hit me...

if your signal chain look just like it does in your signature try removing the tuner from the chain for a minute...running a buffered bypass box (like almost any Boss unit) in front of a fuzz pedal will really mess with not only the tone (it makes things VERY bright and harsh) but it will really mess with the ability of the pedal to clean up with your guitar.

Take your tuner out of the chain for a minute and see what happens...

That helped a bit, but the gain is still massive. I'm thinking they're rated really high and I just want something with less gain that will clean up. I hope i'm right in thinking that the more gain you have, the more you have to roll it down to clean it up.

EDIT: You're also dealing with overdriving tubes too, so if you have the fuzz with too much gain, you'll still distort the tubes, right?

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: Fuzz and Wah placement/best fuzz to use with wah?

Well, most of the Dunlop Fuzz Faces are silicon and silicon fuzzes are known for a lot of gain...what about just rolling the gain control back some to where you want it??

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: Fuzz and Wah placement/best fuzz to use with wah?

If your amp is crunchy and you kick in a fuzz it will ba harder to control and make clean up wiht the guitars volume than if the fuzz is run into a clean amp.

FWIW, a germanium fuzz will clean up a LOT better than a silicon but thats not the only thing to think about...it's really about the whole circiut, not to mention the amp, the guitar the pickups and one thing that gets over looked a lot about the guitar...the pots!

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: Fuzz and Wah placement/best fuzz to use with wah?

One more thing...anything you run between the guitar and the fuzz will alter it's ability to clean up with the guitars volume control...

 

[millsart]

Re: Fuzz and Wah placement/best fuzz to use with wah?

Why do you want your fuzz to clean up so badly out of curiosity ? Some fuzz can do it pretty well, but something like a clean boost, or at treble booster, even a good OD pedal might give you a bit more of what your after if you don't want a thick fuzz tone.

The way I run mine is with the amp just on the edge of breakup. Then with the fuzz kicked in and the volume rolled back a bit its that nice fuzzy Hendrix type sound we all know and love (after all the fuzz was pretty much designed to kick the amp harder as they didnt' have OD and distortion pedals etc back then) When I really want to scream I roll the volume up from 8 to 10 and it really sings.

For really clean stuff I roll the volume back a little and turn of the fuzz as well, thats what its got a switch for and all lol

Guitar volume alone really can't give you a total range of fuzz tones

 

[stuey222]

Re: Fuzz and Wah placement/best fuzz to use with wah?

Why do you want your fuzz to clean up so badly out of curiosity ? Some fuzz can do it pretty well, but something like a clean boost, or at treble booster, even a good OD pedal might give you a bit more of what your after if you don't want a thick fuzz tone.

The way I run mine is with the amp just on the edge of breakup. Then with the fuzz kicked in and the volume rolled back a bit its that nice fuzzy Hendrix type sound we all know and love (after all the fuzz was pretty much designed to kick the amp harder as they didnt' have OD and distortion pedals etc back then) When I really want to scream I roll the volume up from 8 to 10 and it really sings.

For really clean stuff I roll the volume back a little and turn of the fuzz as well, thats what its got a switch for and all lol

Guitar volume alone really can't give you a total range of fuzz tones

I don't want it to totally clean up. I want it to do exactly what you're doing! Mine just has the same saturation and fuzz from 2 on my guitar's volume to 10. Also the volume knob on the fuzz doesn't give me any sort of boost until it's maxed, and I have to have the fuzz up at least 3/4 of the way to get a boost also! Not many different tones I can get from this fuzz, which is why I'm wanting to change.

EDIT: I also would love some dynamics when using the fuzz.

 

[millsart]

Re: Fuzz and Wah placement/best fuzz to use with wah?

How hot of pickups are you running and are you running the fuzz either first in your chain or if there are other pedals before it, are they true bypass ? Fuzz boxes can be rather picky about wanting to be first in the chain.

Also most fuzz boxes don't sound as good with hot pickups, my LP with buckers for example sounds horrible.

Strat with the low output custom shop 69's sounds excellent