Gaps in the product line?

[uOpt]

Re: Gaps in the product line?

Just wondering what you guys felt might be some under-represented segments in the Seymour Duncan product line. This is a good question to ask now and again.

There have been a lot of interesting things released in the couple of years on both ends of the spectrum - from the stuff aimed at extreme metal (Nazgul/Sentient, Black Winters) to stuff designed for vintage-inspired tastes (Whole Lotta Humbuckers), to something in between (59/Custom Hybrid)... But I wonder if there's anything missing.

Have you recently wanted to buy an SD but went with something else because, ultimately, we don't offer what you needed for a particular project?

A Strat single coil with heavier magnets but vintage wind (AWG42 QP). Same for Jazz and Precision pickups, I think the current QP versions do more damage to the SD brand in the bass market than they provide revenue.

The Phat Cat needs a refresh. It doesn't meet expectations.

An official neck humbucker for guitars where most neck humbuckers come out too boomy.

The equivalent of a Hot Rail (Strat/Tele) for Jazz bass. That would be very important for PJ setups that need to beef up the bridge pickup (the QP doesn't do it, especially for metal).

Those SSB-4 or whatever the plastic thunderbird pickups are called don't cut it. A mass-produced vintage style (firebird style) pickup with metal cover and regular floor shop price would be good. For guitar that exists. The Thunderbird is common with a cheap Gibson model, the Epiphone model and numerous other basses use similar-ish soapbars.

 

[IMENATOR]

Re: Gaps in the product line?

This is my wish list:

- Noiseless quarter pounds
- A middle single coil that can sound more like a bridge pickup. That ways I would switch from neck single coil sound to bridge single coil sound in clean an overdrive, then to real bridge humbucker when playing distortion.
- Not sure if you already have an answer but : How to install tripleshot on strat pickguards?

 

[MacBradley]

Re: Gaps in the product line?

A Strat single coil with heavier magnets but vintage wind (AWG42 QP). Same for Jazz and Precision pickups, I think the current QP versions do more damage to the SD brand in the bass market than they provide revenue.

The Phat Cat needs a refresh. It doesn't meet expectations.

An official neck humbucker for guitars where most neck humbuckers come out too boomy.

The equivalent of a Hot Rail (Strat/Tele) for Jazz bass. That would be very important for PJ setups that need to beef up the bridge pickup (the QP doesn't do it, especially for metal).

Those SSB-4 or whatever the plastic thunderbird pickups are called don't cut it. A mass-produced vintage style (firebird style) pickup with metal cover and regular floor shop price would be good. For guitar that exists. The Thunderbird is common with a cheap Gibson model, the Epiphone model and numerous other basses use similar-ish soapbars.

Good observations. Especially with the 1/4 pounders and a lighter neck humbucker.

 

[LtKojak]

Re: Gaps in the product line?

Risking taking heat for maybe sound like a dick for some, I love when people just throw specs left and right with no idea of what they might actually do (or not) to the tone.

Every single product of the Duncan line produces an outcome which is the result of actual studies of feasibility, production workflow, materials choice and availability, not to mention making sure that the great p'up of today will be exactly the same great p'up tomorrow.

I'm all for "breaking the rules", as like in music, breaking the rules of classical music got us Jazz and Blues, nevertheless it'll be nice first at least have a rough idea about'em, before putting together "specs" like choosing what to eat from a 200-course Chinese take-away.

 

[Ptolemaeus]

Re: Gaps in the product line?

i know they sold them alone but i meant a set

The "Everything Axe" set comes with a JB Jr in the bridge, a Duckbucker in the middle, and a Lil '59 in the neck. They sell a set with a Hot Rails in the bridge, a Vintage Rails in the middle, and a Cool Rails in the neck. There's also a set with Hot Rails, for all positions and Cool Rails for all positions, if I'm not mistaken.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Gaps in the product line?

The Phat Cat needs a refresh. It doesn't meet expectations.

+1. Not 'meeting expectations' when most players get one expecting the classic Gibson A5 type P-90 tone which other HB-sized P-90's try to emulate. LP's SG's, 335's, and hollowbodies are probably where most end up, and to me, not where they perform best. Not sure what the goal was, but there's a lot of untapped potential with Phat Cats with winding and magnet combinations. I hate to see them on the backburner when Duncan should have some of the best sounding HB-sized P90's on the market.

 

[idsnowdog]

Re: Gaps in the product line?

+1. Not 'meeting expectations' when most players get one expecting the classic Gibson A5 type P-90 tone which other HB-sized P-90's try to emulate. LP's SG's, 335's, and hollowbodies are probably where most end up, and to me, not where they perform best. Not sure what the goal was, but there's a lot of untapped potential with Phat Cats with winding and magnet combinations. I hate to see them on the backburner when Duncan should have some of the best sounding HB-sized P90's on the market.

I think SD has ceded the field to lower price rivals because of the luke warm reception of the Phat Cats. They could go all in and extend the product line to include humbucker sized vintage, hot and custom models. However they would more than likely need to redesign and relaunch the line instead of using the same construction methods as the existing Phat Cat. I guess I would like to see vintage, hot and custom models built in the same fashion as the GFS Mean 90's and just retire the Phat Cat name.

 

[uOpt]

Re: Gaps in the product line?

I think SD has ceded the field to lower price rivals because of the luke warm reception of the Phat Cats. They could go all in and extend the product line to include humbucker sized vintage, hot and custom models. However they would more than likely need to redesign and relaunch the line instead of using the same construction methods as the existing Phat Cat. I guess I would like to see vintage, hot and custom models built in the same fashion as the GFS Mean 90's and just retire the Phat Cat name.

To be honest, the whole P90 line in Duncan's repository isn't that great. The Antiquity soapbar is for some reason much brighter and lifts a lot of bass compared to e.g. the Gibson soapbar. The reason is unclear to me. Antiquity soapbar in the neck of a fixed bridge guitar is heaven, though.

 

[Falloffthebonetone]

Re: Gaps in the product line?

The P90s are a huge weak point in the Duncan standard line up. Not even a hot stack version. If you want a noiseless p90 from Duncan without the custom shop, there is one model for you.

I don't believe there is a ssl-5 tele equivalent yet right?

There could also be a another rails pickup between the "hot and cool" rails. Maybe call it the "Custom rails" and make it with the goal in mind of making a mini SH-5 Custom. A mini Full Shred or Mini 59/custom hybrid would be cool too as that level of output split with a typical middle single coil would preserve a lot of quack and stand on it's own well when split.

The full sized humbucker rails would also be a cool thing to capitalize on. Maybe experimenting with other magnets and winds?

There isn't anyone else making a Jazzmaster pickup in a typical humbucker route either. I think I saw ONE set made custom by the Creamery.

A refresh on the Phat Cat would be nice too. Maybe make an A5 version and call it the "Cool Cat" and a ceramic one called the "Hot Cat" or "Fast Cat" something.

Hybrids are also a huge thing to invest time in. If results like the 59/Custom hybrid can come about from just matching existing pickups' coils, imagine what can happen when you build the 2 unique coils from the ground up to complement each other?

I also wouldn't mind seeing 2 minihums squeezed in a full size humbucker set up, so you can have it all on for a ton of power, or split to one minihum to clean it up but still keep it noise free. Maybe humbuckers that you can split but keep dead quiet in general would be a cool thing to work on.

Single coil size humbuckers for the telecaster bridge is also a little lacking.

I understand that product demands dictate the pickup replacement market pretty staunchly towards humbuckers, but the humbucker section in Duncan's arsenal is pretty well bolstered after they started filling the "mid output" gap with stuff like the WLH, 59/C, Pegasus, Sentient, Nazgul, Perpetual Burn, etc. So I'm trying to think outside the "bucker box" so to say.

 

[akio]

Re: Gaps in the product line?

Okay, how about this... P-rails in a P90 soapbar housing with integrated triple shot switches

 

[sosomething]

Re: Gaps in the product line?

So. You guys wants lots of stuff.

THAT'S GOOD!

I'm finding this thread tremendously interesting.

The thing that jumps out immediately to me is that the P90 offerings could use fleshing out / refreshed. I'm going to comb through this thread meticulously but I can say that this is the first thing I'll be sending up the chain.

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: Gaps in the product line?

Have you recently wanted to buy an SD but went with something else because, ultimately, we don't offer what you needed for a particular project?

To be frank, the reason I stopped buying new SDs is because of how I was (or was not) treated by support, not because of the product line.

 

[uOpt]

Re: Gaps in the product line?

Speaking of P90s and Duncan's brighter versions...

Can you do to a soapbar whatever a Pearly Gates is over a APH1? That low-mids push of the PG must come from somewhere. Can be it done to a soapbar or dogear?

Soap Gates or Pearly Bar?

 

[Scott Olson]

Re: Gaps in the product line?

The "updated" website that has now passed into the realm of myth and hearsay.

Hahaha, I promise you it's almost done. It's much like a sky-scrapper that you start building and keep deciding to build it a little higher. But once it's finally finished you'll find loads of new content, all new sound samples, more specs, etc.

 

[Scott Olson]

Re: Gaps in the product line?

This is a great thread guys and a lot of interesting ideas and observations. I'll be sure to share them with the new products team, so please keep them coming.

 

[dominus]

Re: Gaps in the product line?

Hahaha, I promise you it's almost done. It's much like a sky-scrapper that you start building and keep deciding to build it a little higher. But once it's finally finished you'll find loads of new content, all new sound samples, more specs, etc.

I read this book a few months ago, about the race between the designer of the Chrysler building and the Manhattan Company Building.

Of course, both were surpassed soon enough by the Empire State Building.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Gaps in the product line?

The P90s are a huge weak point in the Duncan standard line up.

Strange, considering Seymour's passion for PAF's. From a blues/jazz/classic perspective (which is where most of the P-90 attraction is), I don't see the appeal of ceramic P-90's: the sound's too hot and modern for blues/jazz players, and too noisy for metal heads. Duncan needs to offer more for the hardcore P-90 fan base. I don't know what the idea was behind Phat Cats, but they've been surpassed by a number of other companies who've since introduced HB-sized P-90's. A2's and a hot neck wind isn't very versatile, too dark in a lot of guitars. I use brighter magnets in my neck Phat Cat's to get some treble in them, Zhang took off 1K of wire. Other the other hand, the A2's in the bridge are often 'weak and thin' (as Zhang described them). There's a couple design upgrades they could benefit from: a 3rd wire for a separate ground, like the competition does, and baseplate screws that hold the baseplate securely to the coil, like every other P-90 in the world. Having the whole thing held together by the cover being soldered on is an old design flaw that needs to be updated.

There's a lot of potential in P-90's and Phat Cats with a few different winds and magnets. Mix it up with some A3's and A4's. Wouldn't it be great to have a Duncan 'Live at Leeds' P-90? And some of the other famous tones, like Leslie West, Mick Ralphs, and Santana. Put some life in the P-90 line. Create some excitement.

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: Gaps in the product line?

Put some life in the P-90 line. Create some excitement.

As much as I love P90's and would love to see a better assortment, they really are a niche market. I bet guitars with humbuckers and strat single coils outsell them 50 to 1.

This is where small boutique winders save the day by catering to these small markets. Though I sure wouldnt mind seeing SD do it.

 

[allbutromeo]

Re: Gaps in the product line?

With all of the talk about medium output neck HB's and the Screamin Demon in the neck, maybe take the demon and swap the filister and hex screws (or go traditional filister/slug arrangement) and rename and market it as a neck pickup.

 

[uOpt]

Re: Gaps in the product line?

As much as I love P90's and would love to see a better assortment, they really are a niche market. I bet guitars with humbuckers and strat single coils outsell them 50 to 1.

This is where small boutique winders save the day by catering to these small markets. Though I sure wouldnt mind seeing SD do it.

Well, yes. But...

If you were to refurbish the P90 line you could at the same time take care of the packaging and make humbucker sized versions.

And I really think that having 2 versions of vintage wind, one thin sounding like a APH1 and one with a low mids push like a PG, would get people looking at SD twice (in the true sense of the word). People love choice. They don't want "this is the one we decided you will like". Choice. Illusion of control.