Gibson 57 Classics similar to which SD pickup?

[sumitagarwal]

Hey guys, I have an opportunity to buy a "pre-Historic" Les Paul reissue that comes with 57 Classics, but it'll be shipped to me so I have no option to play it first.

Normally I thoroughly molest my guitars' electronics, but as this is a reissue guitar and spendier than my usual splurges I'll try to restrain myself this time.

The question is: am I likely to enjoy this guitar with the stock pickups? I'm much more familiar with the Duncan line-up than Gibson's. In the spec ballpark of the 57 I have a hard-on for the PG (especially the neck) and have had a lot of fun with an AP2 in the bridge. I also own/have owned a bunch of other Duncans.

So... which Duncan pickup is the 57 Classic closest to in tone and in feel?

 

[Chickenwings]

Re: Gibson 57 Classics similar to which SD pickup?

not in my experience.
But some people like them.

I cant think of an SD that sounds like the 57. On paper, sure, but in a guitar, nah.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Gibson 57 Classics similar to which SD pickup?

Duncan has nothing like '57's which is good, as I think it's the worst-sounding PU Gibson makes. I've had 2 sets and sold them both. The high end is dull, not much clarity; I think the wind isn't a good match for the magnet. Every other PAF I've had sounds better. If you want a PAF that blows away '57's, get a pair of Seth's. Seymour knows how to wind a PU for A2's.

 

[sumitagarwal]

Re: Gibson 57 Classics similar to which SD pickup?

So what do you guys think is making it so much darker or less clear than those Duncans? Just the winding pattern itself?

As far as I know the rest of the materials should be identical (as in: standard PAF stuff like enamel wires, wood spacers, etc).

Maybe I can keep all the wiring solder joints virgin and get the sound I want from a pickup swap?

 

[Chickenwings]

Re: Gibson 57 Classics similar to which SD pickup?

sound and feel is often vastly different to specs on paper. Maybe the difference is in the subtelties.
Anyway, see how you like the axe in its stock form before worrying about pickup swaps. Lots of people seem to like 57s. You might be one of them.

 

[Condemnedsoul]

Re: Gibson 57 Classics similar to which SD pickup?

If you don't mind checking out another company's product, look into the DMZ 36 Anniversary set. I replaced a set of 57's in one of my SG's with these and am very satisfied with them. PAF tone with a bit of air and they don't really compress. And they seem smoother to me than the 57's.

 

[sumitagarwal]

Re: Gibson 57 Classics similar to which SD pickup?

sound and feel is often vastly different to specs on paper. Maybe the difference is in the subtelties.
Anyway, see how you like the axe in its stock form before worrying about pickup swaps. Lots of people seem to like 57s. You might be one of them.

Yea, I get that but what I really wish I knew is exactly what those "subtleties" are made of. Clearly there is something specific in the design, and those specifics should be able to represent as specs on paper. Afterall, these companies manage to pump out thousands of these lovely sounding pickups. When you've got about the same number of turns of the same kind of wire around the same kind of magnet and the same casing... what is it that makes one turn into an A2P and another turn into a PG?

If you don't mind checking out another company's product, look into the DMZ 36 Anniversary set. I replaced a set of 57's in one of my SG's with these and am very satisfied with them. PAF tone with a bit of air and they don't really compress. And they seem smoother to me than the 57's.

Definitely been curious about these, and about the newer Master PAF's. Thoughts on them versus the PG?

 

[Securb]

Re: Gibson 57 Classics similar to which SD pickup?

I tried my hardest to keep my Traditional spec with the 57's. No matter what I did I could not find a setting that made me happy. The are especially bad with any type of moderate to high gain. I replaced them with a WLH set and now my Les Paul sounds like a Les Paul should. I have the 57's in a box incase I ever sell the guitar and want to go back to stock. I doubt that will ever happen.

 

[Chickenwings]

Re: Gibson 57 Classics similar to which SD pickup?

I cant say enough good things about WLH's. I want to put them in every guitar i have!

 

[sumitagarwal]

Re: Gibson 57 Classics similar to which SD pickup?

The are especially bad with any type of moderate to high gain. I replaced them with a WLH set and now my Les Paul sounds like a Les Paul should.

Uh oh... that could really be a problem for me :2:

But haven't Brent Hinds and Bill Kelliher of Mastodon both used the 57 Classic heavily on their albums and live? Granted, Mastodon isn't exactly a modern high-gain tone.

 

[LLL]

Re: Gibson 57 Classics similar to which SD pickup?

buahahaha

I dig the '57 Classics (but not the "plus" bridge; the regular bridge)... you can do all sorts of stuff with it, including high gain.

...and yes, including metal.

In fact, here's a Megadeth clip (Holy Wars The Punishment Due) using a '57 Classic in the bridge of my Gibson Elliot Easton Firebird:

LLL - BIAS Holy Wars

 

[Rockstar216]

Re: Gibson 57 Classics similar to which SD pickup?

Uh oh... that could really be a problem for me :2:

But haven't Brent Hinds and Bill Kelliher of Mastodon both used the 57 Classic heavily on their albums and live? Granted, Mastodon isn't exactly a modern high-gain tone.

Don't forget to take into account what rig he runs through and also that studio sound and live sound a different things. A good audio engineer will make anything sound good.

You might like the 57s you might not but only YOUR OWN fingers and ears can tell you that.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Gibson 57 Classics similar to which SD pickup?

I cant say enough good things about WLH's. I want to put them in every guitar i have!

Another great Duncan PAF, and another one that blows away '57's.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Gibson 57 Classics similar to which SD pickup?

Yea, I get that but what I really wish I knew is exactly what those "subtleties" are made of. Clearly there is something specific in the design, and those specifics should be able to represent as specs on paper. Afterall, these companies manage to pump out thousands of these lovely sounding pickups. When you've got about the same number of turns of the same kind of wire around the same kind of magnet and the same casing

PU makers spend decades learning how windings change tones and EQ: what patterns, tensions, and where you do them in the wind and for how long. This is an art. And after years of development, they're also closely-guarded secrets.

 

[Detroitblues]

Re: Gibson 57 Classics similar to which SD pickup?

I took out the stock Gibson pups from my LP Standard. Not exactly sure what set they are, but I now have a Seth Lover in the Neck and a Pearly Gates in the bridge. Sounds so much better!

 

[sumitagarwal]

Re: Gibson 57 Classics similar to which SD pickup?

buahahaha

I dig the '57 Classics (but not the "plus" bridge; the regular bridge)... you can do all sorts of stuff with it, including high gain.

...and yes, including metal.

In fact, here's a Megadeth clip (Holy Wars The Punishment Due) using a '57 Classic in the bridge of my Gibson Elliot Easton Firebird:

LLL - BIAS Holy Wars

Well damn, that sounds pretty good to me! What amp are you running through? Pedals?

 

[Synapsys]

Re: Gibson 57 Classics similar to which SD pickup?

Although I'm a die-hard Duncan fun, with several models on my guitars, the 57's (Classic Plus bridge and Classic neck) aren't going anywhere.

 

[LLL]

Re: Gibson 57 Classics similar to which SD pickup?

Well damn, that sounds pretty good to me! What amp are you running through? Pedals?

I used Positive Grid's "BIAS" which is essentially a modeler (but in VST form).

Used the "5153 MkII" amp, some simple EQing (within BIAS), bone dry (no FX at all).

And doubled (played part twice and panned each L & R).

That's it. I was just as amazed a '57 Classic could do Dave. :laughing:

Positive Grid BIAS

 

[sumitagarwal]

Re: Gibson 57 Classics similar to which SD pickup?

Actually there have been a number of favorable posts here about '57 Classics, which is what spiked my curiosity. I'm pleasd with mine & think they're about the best Gibson makes. With magnet swaps I get some great tones from my 498T's, 490T's, & 490R's too. The quality's there, the magnets & pairings aren't always the best.

Duncan has nothing like '57's which is good, as I think it's the worst-sounding PU Gibson makes. I've had 2 sets and sold them both. The high end is dull, not much clarity; I think the wind isn't a good match for the magnet.

Well sir, I see you've definitely changed your mind on this

But at least you've maintained that a Gibson pickup really needs a magnet swap to sound its best!

If I'm going to stipulate that I only want to make changes/upgrades that make the reissue guitar *closer* to vintage spec rather than further, what magnets would you use? As I understand it that would mean I could use A2 (stock), A3, A4, or... UOA5? I'm not sure what kind of A5's would be considered "vintage". I know people say A4 is the most common for the period and that they sound great to boot.

 

[ItsaBass]

Gibson 57 Classics similar to which SD pickup?

I haven't played an SD pickup that sounds like '57 Classics. AII Pros should get you in the neighborhood in which '57's are trying to live...but the Duncans are more "refined" sounding, you might say.

That said, I had a '57 and '57+ set in several guitars over the course of about 12 or 13 years. They weren't my favorite pickups in terms of achieving "classic" tone, but let's just say that they were good sounding enough and versatile enough that they never sat unused, and I never felt a pressing need to get rid of them. If you like '57's, use '57's.

THAT said, If that was my guitar, I would put Seths in it.