Gibson gets $135M- Will they use it wisely? Can Epi save the day?

Re: Gibson gets $135M- Will they use it wisely? Can Epi save the day?

Chistopher said:
If I were Gibson I'd let Gibson be the traditional design company and ditch all the lifestyle crap. Drop all the fancy modern stuff they are trying to do and put all that $135M into their smaller operations and use those as a testing ground for new guitars.

Let's say Gibson has a new radical guitar they want to introduce to the public and the kids don't like it. That's a mark on the Gibson name. Let's say this new radical guitar is pointy, let Kramer introduce it to the market. If it's a more modern take on a traditional guitar, Epiphone will take care of it. If the ideas pan out well Gibson will release their version of it. This way if things go south one of Gibson's side operations takes the fall, which will be a lot smaller because they don't have as high a rep to uphold as Gibson.

On a side note, while I was researching some of Gibson's side hustles, I found "Garrison Guitars" is a small acoustic firm purchased by Gibson in '07, so there goes my hopes for having a guitar company in my own name.
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Funny! I bet you could buy the brand for pennies on the dollar- go for it! Put me down for serial number 0001:)

As far as focus, yes they wasted a ton of energy and effort, but those are sunk costs and it's time to move on- I like your idea of letting the brands specialize, but first thing they have to do is get basic customer focused development in place- not rocket science, but it's how they can generate the data that predicts how many LP standards they can sell vs 'pointy things'- and that's how they can tell best investment opportunities.;)
 
Re: Gibson gets $135M- Will they use it wisely? Can Epi save the day?

Mincer said:
I think someone should submit that poster of their failures to the bank that is lending the money. Now, I don't think Henry is responsible for all of that- there are product designers, managers and board members who approve that stuff, too.
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Yes, it's the perfect 'Poster Child' to visualize what not to do (although the Hendrix Gibson Strat was a bigger surprise when we were researching the series;)

And you are correct, Henry isn't the one who designed the nutsy stuff (although most tell me that Robo tuners and Firebrid X were his babies)-

However, he's the leader- and leaders have to take the lead introducing basic manufacturing processes, basic prod dev, and especially, market research-the buck stopped with him and designers should have been focused on customer needs, not drawing funky stuff for the fun of it.

Gibson doesn't have a Chief Customer Officer (you might hear more about this soon;) but for now, it's his role and he didn't do it well.

Thanks for bringing this up- We don't need to focus as much on the past as much as what needs to happen now, but that poster idea is excellent.
 
Re: Gibson gets $135M- Will they use it wisely? Can Epi save the day?

My point is that probably most of their failures are probably not all from the top down. You have designers who say 'it's so crazy it just might work' (it won't) and product managers who consistently miss the mark on their decisions. It is a whole chain of Hindenburgs. Their biggest rivalry is their own past. I also don't want a Gibson guitars that does nothing but make 59 Bursts, either. It is a systemic problem.
 
Re: Gibson gets $135M- Will they use it wisely? Can Epi save the day?

My thought would only cover a small fraction of there issue but I think they should just retire the SG Special line. My reasoning is right now the highest cost Epiphone SG is the Tommi Iommi “special” going for around 700 bucks. Let Epiphone start making their top of the line SG’s for that cost and than bring in a Gibson SG Standard for around 1K. That would give Epiphone a starting point at under 200$ and up to 700$ where Gibson could than step in.

To me, the jumping from the non “signature” line of Epiphone SG’s (around 450$) to a Gibson Standard at around 1,500.00 bucks is way to much. And I cannot see what the SG Special line does for Gibson that a top of the line Epiphone cannot fill.
 
Re: Gibson gets $135M- Will they use it wisely? Can Epi save the day?

Exojam said:
My thought would only cover a small fraction of there issue but I think they should just retire the SG Special line. My reasoning is right now the highest cost Epiphone SG is the Tommi Iommi “special” going for around 700 bucks. Let Epiphone start making their top of the line SG’s for that cost and than bring in a Gibson SG Standard for around 1K. That would give Epiphone a starting point at under 200$ and up to 700$ where Gibson could than step in.

To me, the jumping from the non “signature” line of Epiphone SG’s (around 450$) to a Gibson Standard at around 1,500.00 bucks is way to much. And I cannot see what the SG Special line does for Gibson that a top of the line Epiphone cannot fill.
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Because people who really want a Gibson probably don't really want an Epiphone.

They do need to fix their QC reputation. Overblown or not, they have the negative reputation regarding QC, or lack thereof.

There is also the conundrum with their pricing. I'm not a big SG fan, but personally, I prefer the unbound necks of the specials and faded models over the bound necks of the standards. That's for purely aesthetic reasons. I just think an unbound neck on an unbound body looks better. I think a well made and QC'd SG special or faded is one of Gibsons better guitar deals and I'd definitely buy one over an Epiphone Iommi ... if I wanted an SG and I could play them first ....

But if you want to see an example of pricing that makes little sense (to me anyway), look at their 2018 SG line. Especially the SG Junior relative to the rest of the SG line. And they do that stuff all the time.
 
Re: Gibson gets $135M- Will they use it wisely? Can Epi save the day?

Well I know I really want a SG Standard but will be buying the Epiphone shortly for two reasons, a) to much for the SG (my opinion) and b) most of the reviews I see either comparing it a Gibson or a comment in passing states the Epi is just as good.
 
Re: Gibson gets $135M- Will they use it wisely? Can Epi save the day?

It seems that the biggest problem....according to what info is available...is that Gibson/Epiphone guitar operations are a small part of Gibson company...fixing the Guitar segment is an absolute must but the biggest upfront problem is taking care of all the other components...
 
Re: Gibson gets $135M- Will they use it wisely? Can Epi save the day?

Can everybody just take a step back and think about how many "wacky" guitars Gibson released in the past few years that wasn't a production Korina Moderne? I'm talking more than just that reissue they did once.
 
Re: Gibson gets $135M- Will they use it wisely? Can Epi save the day?

Exojam said:
Well I know I really want a SG Standard but will be buying the Epiphone shortly for two reasons, a) to much for the SG (my opinion) and b) most of the reviews I see either comparing it a Gibson or a comment in passing states the Epi is just as good.
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If you cant afford the Gibson, then that's one thing. If you are basing your decision on internet comments that the EPI is just as good ... that's something completely different. You may very well like the EPI better. But, dont rely on internet opinions. Go out and play both the EPI and the Gibson models that you are interested in. Then, just be honest with yourself.
 
Re: Gibson gets $135M- Will they use it wisely? Can Epi save the day?

Mincer said:
It is a systemic problem.
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Yes it is!
Mincer, I will let you in on a secret- by day I am a business analyst and Zionstrat and ModmanMike only come out at night and weekends:)

Considering that Gibson has hit the wall that most small and medium businesses hit, this is actually a processes case study that just happens to combine my favorite stuff. So far, the series has covered basic product and marketing systems.

Of course, all of the guitar content makes this more fun than work.
 
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Re: Gibson gets $135M- Will they use it wisely? Can Epi save the day?

Darg1911 said:
If you cant afford the Gibson, then that's one thing. If you are basing your decision on internet comments that the EPI is just as good ... that's something completely different. You may very well like the EPI better. But, dont rely on internet opinions. Go out and play both the EPI and the Gibson models that you are interested in. Then, just be honest with yourself.
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Darg1911,

I can afford pretty much any guitar within reason and that I really want. Right now there is just tons of difficulty in getting to shops and sitting them down side by side.

I will one day own the Standard to go with my Gothic SG which do to very bad circumstances I have not even been able to play.

I do understand where you are coming from though.
 
Re: Gibson gets $135M- Will they use it wisely? Can Epi save the day?

Exojam said:
Darg1911,

I can afford pretty much any guitar within reason and that I really want. Right now there is just tons of difficulty in getting to shops and sitting them down side by side.

I will one day own the Standard to go with my Gothic SG which do to very bad circumstances I have not even been able to play.

I do understand where you are coming from though.
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Sorry, didn't mean to imply that you, specifically, can't afford a Gibson (or whatever your heart desires). It was intended more as a general comment.

Personally, I dont have the luxury of buying anything that I want to so it's not like I look down on those that are in the same boat as I am. No offense intended.
 
Re: Gibson gets $135M- Will they use it wisely? Can Epi save the day?

Darg1911 said:
Sorry, didn't mean to imply that you, specifically, can't afford a Gibson (or whatever your heart desires). It was intended more as a general comment.

Personally, I dont have the luxury of buying anything that I want to so it's not like I look down on those that are in the same boat as I am. No offense intended.
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No offense taken at all.
 
Re: Gibson gets $135M- Will they use it wisely? Can Epi save the day?

One last question... I had expected some push back about repositioning Epiphone and I'm surprised there were no comments.. Any thoughts?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
 
Re: Gibson gets $135M- Will they use it wisely? Can Epi save the day?

The Epi idea is an interesting one, but they would have an uphill battle with the perception of Epiphone being a step down from Gibson in the eyes of many consumers. We all know that isn't the case all the time, but Gibson has spent the last 30 years drilling that idea into most customer's heads.
 
Re: Gibson gets $135M- Will they use it wisely? Can Epi save the day?

Gibson should follow the Fender Model:
EPI like Squire...create at higher end EPI like Classic Vibe...start up a MIM Gibson and have Gibson at the top...thin out significantly the Gibson models offered and spread any PVM winners through the lower levels.
 
Re: Gibson gets $135M- Will they use it wisely? Can Epi save the day?

Mincer said:
The Epi idea is an interesting one, but they would have an uphill battle with the perception of Epiphone being a step down from Gibson in the eyes of many consumers. We all know that isn't the case all the time, but Gibson has spent the last 30 years drilling that idea into most customer's heads.
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Yeah, Gibson needs a total brand facelift... And regardless of any restructuring, they will probably be much better off with a strong Epi and Gibson footprint...will be interesting if they get that deep anytime soon.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
 
Re: Gibson gets $135M- Will they use it wisely? Can Epi save the day?

zionstrat said:
Yes it is!
Mincer, I will let you in on a secret- by day I am a business analyst and Zionstrat and ModmanMike only come out at night and weekends:)

Considering that Gibson has hit the wall that most small and medium businesses hit, this is actually a processes case study that just happens to combine my favorite stuff. So far, the series has covered basic product and marketing systems.

Of course, all of the guitar content makes this more fun than work.
Click to expand...

Yeah - Me & Zionstrat do the same stuff. And we are in 98% agreement.
 
Re: Gibson gets $135M- Will they use it wisely? Can Epi save the day?

zionstrat said:
Yeah, Gibson needs a total brand facelift... And regardless of any restructuring, they will probably be much better off with a strong Epi and Gibson footprint...will be interesting if they get that deep anytime soon.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
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They better get that deep PDQ...during restructure they have to put mucho focus on core business...ID core products and exit structure/strategy...get heavy into process improvement on core business...they have to convince/demonstrate to the court and investors constantly that they have a plan and are vigorously implementing it...
 
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