Gibson gets $135M- Will they use it wisely? Can Epi save the day?

[zionstrat]

Re: Gibson gets $135M- Will they use it wisely? Can Epi save the day?

Yeah - Me & Zionstrat do the same stuff. And we are in 98% agreement.

+1 .

And would be nice to work that 2% into an alternative/ dissent section section in the roundup if you would like to contribute!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

 

[zionstrat]

Re: Gibson gets $135M- Will they use it wisely? Can Epi save the day?

They better get that deep PDQ...during restructure they have to put mucho focus on core business...ID core products and exit structure/strategy...get heavy into process improvement on core business...they have to convince/demonstrate to the court and investors constantly that they have a plan and are vigorously implementing it...

So true... Process really needs to be central and the narrative of that better mindset would be a big part of rebrand...

As much as I want what you write to happen, the problem is the creditors and court may favor short term, let's get money out approach...

In my mind a private equity approach would hasen long term decline... It would be wonderful if the court recognises the need for refocus and they reinforces longterm, growth path, but that would require heavy wisdom thats somewhat rare in legal system these days.

Of course, Yags could step in any time and bedazzle everyone with a deep pocket buyout.



Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

 

[Mincer]

Re: Gibson gets $135M- Will they use it wisely? Can Epi save the day?

Well, let's hope that they have people who care as much as you do working for them. I have a feeling all sides are whispering in their ear, and they are trying to make everyone happy, which won't happen.

 

[zionstrat]

Re: Gibson gets $135M- Will they use it wisely? Can Epi save the day?

Thank you buddy... I know people there who are still there, desperat ly praying for change... a turn around would be so good for all.

Well, let's hope that they have people who care as much as you do working for them. I have a feeling all sides are whispering in their ear, and they are trying to make everyone happy, which won't happen.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

 

[Condemnedsoul]

Re: Gibson gets $135M- Will they use it wisely? Can Epi save the day?

"Considering that Gibson has hit the wall that most small and medium businesses hit"

And this reminds me that at one time - 1960's and into the 70's and 80;s, I could walk into locally owned music store and buy a new Gibson. I bought a new Explorer in a franchised store that was smaller than a ten table greasy spoon [ Also did warranty work for Gibson and Martin ]. At the time, the owner told me that he sold a white Flying V. About six months later, he got a call from Nashville , Gibson wanted to know why a guitar that was shipped to him was on sale in a pawnshop outside Nashville. He had to prove that the it was a legitimate sale.

Long story short. Gibson has put themselves out of reach of local music stores. These are the stores that will help carry on the Gibson banner.

 

[zionstrat]

Re: Gibson gets $135M- Will they use it wisely? Can Epi save the day?

Long story short. Gibson has put themselves out of reach of local music stores. These are the stores that will help carry on the Gibson banner.

+1.
Covering dealers in part v...probably the sadest part of the story and hoping for a happy ending.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

 

[Aceman]

Re: Gibson gets $135M- Will they use it wisely? Can Epi save the day?

Again - great example of Gibson spending money/time on things that were not important...."Why is guitar on sale in a pawn shop"

Dumb@$$es

 

[Aceman]

Re: Gibson gets $135M- Will they use it wisely? Can Epi save the day?

Well, let's hope that they have people who care as much as you do working for them. I have a feeling all sides are whispering in their ear, and they are trying to make everyone happy, which won't happen.

Gibson needs to make 5 market segments happy:

#1 People who want the classics - Les Pauls made like made in 59. Those need to be expensive but not stupid. Say $2500
#2 People who want a players/performers Les Paul - Chambered/Taps/neck access/Duncan's/DiMarzio's etc... Say $1500-1800
#3 People who want something interesting V's, Explorers, and maybe something unique but not stupid....$1000 to 1500
#4 Classic Jazz box fans, 335's etc. $2000 to $3000
#5 Acoustic classics, J45's, Hummingbirds - $2500 to $3500

In electric they need
Studio - No binding, dot inlays, Gibson pickups (good ones). Maybe a limited release fancy with gold and Duncans....
Standard - Inlays, Crowns, and Chrome
Custom - Blocks, Grovers, Gold and Duncans/DiMarrzios.

See how easy that was? I'm available for a price....


So you could buy....

A plain Black Gibson V studio with dots, Klusons, one ply guard and BB1/2's for $1000 or
A Black V with block inlays, grovers, 3 ply guard, gold covers, and a Dimarzio SuperDistortion set for $2000

A Les Paul Studio in white, open coils BB1/2, Klusons, dots for $1200 or
A Les Paul Standard Contemporary, in Faded cherry burst, light flame, Binding/Crowns/Chrome, Duncan Whole Lotta's, taps and neck access, with weight relief, for $1800
A Les Paul Standard Classic Flame top, long tenon, solid, Kluson, Chrome, Seths, For $2500
A Les Paul Custom Black Beauty Triple Contemporary with Air Norton, Norton, Tone Zone, taps, etc for $2000

Really....I'm just making this up on the fly. Give me a couple of days and it could get really refined.

 

[justFred]

Re: Gibson gets $135M- Will they use it wisely? Can Epi save the day?

Gibson needs to make five market segments happy:
Connoisseurs: classic models @ 2500+ world class quality, materials, components and looks;
Professionals: studio models world class quality, components and materials;
Artists: high quality, components and looks;
Garage band players: good quality, components and materials;
Beginning to intermediate hobbyists: a good basic SG or Les Paul style guitar.

 

[zionstrat]

Re: Gibson gets $135M- Will they use it wisely? Can Epi save the day?

Ace and Fred!!!
Thats the start of segmentation that Gibson needs to do. Ace is more focused on traditional Gibson and Fred's covering mass production side as well. Great stuff.

You've picked logical segments and they need to vett the best Roi for first steps... That includes demand, competitive, magins and choices about what they can fix fast...

If they optimize product procesess, they might find lower midrange has good roi.

Or if they want to focus on quality, getting good price/ value in lower boutique might be a faster path to $.

Of course, finding those sweetspots is exactly what the job that they must do, and you guys are perfect examples of real buyers...exactly the kind of data they need to be collecting.

Thanks so much for great input...I'm coming back with more questions for the "vote with your pocket book" section soon.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

 

[justFred]

Re: Gibson gets $135M- Will they use it wisely? Can Epi save the day?

In simple terms: Gibson needs to do a thorough price, volume, mix analysis...that is a good starting point...

 

[Little Pigbacon]

Re: Gibson gets $135M- Will they use it wisely? Can Epi save the day?

I’d happily pay $1,299 for a good basic Flying V w/ HSC.

 

[Sirion]

Re: Gibson gets $135M- Will they use it wisely? Can Epi save the day?

I'll repeat some suggestions I've made elsewhere:

* Gibson have never fixed some of the inherent problems with their fret placement. Whilst the intonation problems might not get most people to throw their Gibsons out, it is there, and there is no reason not to address it.
.* Anybody but the purest of purists would be happy with a Gibson where the headstock angle has been improved so as to avoid headstock breakage. IMHO they should go as far as starting to use intonation pin-wheels and remove the structural weakness added by truss rod adjustment at the headstock altogether, but we all know that isn't going to happen.
* If Gibson want to have any fraction of the downtuned market, they should have some models with longer scale lengths.

 

[justFred]

Re: Gibson gets $135M- Will they use it wisely? Can Epi save the day?

I’d happily pay $1,299 for a good basic Flying V w/ HSC.

What if it said Gibephone on the headstock?

 

[zionstrat]

Re: Gibson gets $135M- Will they use it wisely? Can Epi save the day?

In simple terms: Gibson needs to do a thorough price, volume, mix analysis...that is a good starting point...

Yep, that's it

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

 

[zionstrat]

Re: Gibson gets $135M- Will they use it wisely? Can Epi save the day?

I’d happily pay $1,299 for a good basic Flying V w/ HSC.

Up until this point they have priced based on how much can we get... hopefully, someone in the loop sees how this is a bad idea over time...

You are suggesting competitive quality and price and that's exactly what has to happen for them to grow.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

 

[zionstrat]

Re: Gibson gets $135M- Will they use it wisely? Can Epi save the day?

I'll repeat some suggestions I've made elsewhere:

* Gibson have never fixed some of the inherent problems with their fret placement. Whilst the intonation problems might not get most people to throw their Gibsons out, it is there, and there is no reason not to address it.
.* Anybody but the purest of purists would be happy with a Gibson where the headstock angle has been improved so as to avoid headstock breakage. IMHO they should go as far as starting to use intonation pin-wheels and remove the structural weakness added by truss rod adjustment at the headstock altogether, but we all know that isn't going to happen.
* If Gibson want to have any fraction of the downtuned market, they should have some models with longer scale lengths.

Sirion, you are describing clear needs for your segment... Although we, the customer, ultimately want everything the way we want it, If G does this right, the first segment they address should be one where they can rapidly meet needs with a decent return on investment.

My guess is they would first address basic quality and costs before they do the work you described...

However, the point of systematic process is to loop back and I would imagine there are enough informed players to get what you want over time...

So stick to your guns, let's see if they get the easier stuff fixed and hope that 'Sirion Segment' needs are addressed sooner than later...

Great thread guys and wonderful content for article V!!!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

 

[Mincer]

Re: Gibson gets $135M- Will they use it wisely? Can Epi save the day?

on the other hand, Fender, which is sort of a heritage company, has been doing well mining their past. They seem to get price points right, and although they tend to just re-arrange features from different guitars and eras, they nail the 'new but familiar' idea that keeps each new model looking distinctly Fender.
So...how does one 'fix' Gibson? I don't do what you or Ace does- both of you would be able to go in there and suggest a ton of things. From the outside, it seems like there are so many issues, from price, to dealer treatment, to management, to design and release of new models. Not to mention the acquisition of other brands only to shut them down. Again, from the outside, these problems seem so big that the only solution would be to strip it down to a small Custom Shop with few employees and assets, and bring the brand back very slowly over several years.

 

[zionstrat]

Re: Gibson gets $135M- Will they use it wisely? Can Epi save the day?

on the other hand, Fender, which is sort of a heritage company, has been doing well mining their past. They seem to get price points right, and although they tend to just re-arrange features from different guitars and eras, they nail the 'new but familiar' idea that keeps each new model looking distinctly Fender.

So...how does one 'fix' Gibson? I don't do what you or Ace does- both of you would be able to go in there and suggest a ton of things. ..

The competitive is really obvious- as you say, Fender gets the idea of building logically on the past, getting good value and appropriate price points and growing into new spaces that customers understand... we've been putting firebirds and TV Joneses in Teles for years, they saw what we were doing and look at the great tele lines that were simple, logical extensions of what they were already good at.

But they also have a good view of the future- I think the Fender quotes are in part IV (we haven't published yet, but you can get to it from the bottom of part III)- Fender thinks this is a growth period for Electrics, they see females as a big growth segment, they have done the research and they are reaching out- best of all worlds.

As far as 'fixing Gibosn' the processes we've described certainly sound like a lot of hard work-

But keep in mind, the articles are really targeting companies that want to grow and change, they are at least aware of business best practices- so these concepts aren't foreign to them- they all know the Blockbuster case study.

The bottom line is, does Gibson want to grow, do they have the resources and are they willing to change? If so, next steps are relatively easy- most of the work is additive and a direct result of understanding customer needs as we have enjoyed doing in this thread.

I'm not sure that Gibson wants to change yet But if they do, creditors are likely to recognize the need for change management and would bring in someone like Ace or myself to help get that plan together.

Thanks again for putting up with all the Bizspeak- There are cool guitars in the center of the conversation- I hate to be boring but you guys have kept it fun

 

[justFred]

Re: Gibson gets $135M- Will they use it wisely? Can Epi save the day?

Fender is reportedly in financial trouble as well...