Gibson, how does thou suck, let me count the stripes....

[eclecticsynergy]

IMO our standards may have been skewed a bit by the insane 3D flame on customshop Gibsons and PRS 10-tops.

Flamed tops are far more common than they used to be, but even today not all Gibson bursts or trans color tops are flamed.
Or has that changed, and they're mostly curly maple now?

I kinda like the look of a plaintop, or just a hint of flame on one half like example #2.

Certainly though, any top that's listed as rated AAA (like example #1) should not have areas with no figuring at all.
That one's not even a good color match for the Derrig unburst, which is basically an orange drop.

 

[CaptainWhizz]

I’ve definitely seen “half-and-half” tops on photos of guitars from the ‘50s; however, I don’t subscribe to the idea that guitars made exactly as they were in the ‘50s are the best way to go, so I would spend my money elsewhere.

 

[Bogner]

FWIW one of the most iconic, famous and sought after flames exhibits all of the problems you've cited in the GC collection.

Only desirable because of Page. Aside from that, nothing appealing about them at all to me.

 

[beaubrummels]

Only desirable because of Page. Aside from that, nothing appealing about them at all to me.

That's exactly of my point. They're just making them the way they always have, for the most part, and why I made the statement below...

I think a lot of bursts are actually like this. You just don't see it because the darkest part of the burst covers the lack of flame on the edges. But even this one as is, kind of has it's own character. It's not my idea of a flame top, but I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand as the right player could make it the next most desirable sig model.

 

[AlexR]

Once again we have Aceman confusing personal opinion for reality.

 

[dave74]

Now the "tiger-burst" or whatever for $5299 looks amazing IMO, just as it is, but for that price it definitely should.

 

[orpheo]

Aceman: better? Yeah, I forgot to dust off the knobs haha. Oh, and this one? On sale for 750. Not 7500.

 

[ehdwuld]

This matters only if you plan on hanging them on the wall
HOw do they sound /feel In a dark room

 

[gsammo79]

The fiesta red on the upper left is gorgeous. I never see an LP in that color before.

I thought the same thing when I saw it. I'd snag that up in a heartbeat

 

[Aceman]

Once again we have Aceman confusing personal opinion for reality.

Hey - noted that opinions vary.

That said, let's all be honest; If you are buying flame, you want flame. I don't think anyone would argue that they

a) Want the flame to be symmetrical. Either all the way, 75% across or whatever, but symetrical
b) They may prefer tighter or larger flame. Obviously flame is rated loose to tight A, AA, AAA, AAAA etc...

So, yes - IMO, based on those two very simple criteria, these are fails. Waiting on someone to say "Hey - I like really random, non-matched, different tightness flame tops".

I can see the appeal of the dirty Bengal or whatever it is. I have seen way better versions. The bottom line is a lot of companies do a while lot better (without making them veneers) for less than $1500.

I believe my "opinion" reflects that of the majority of buyers. But please - do explain your opinion and how it is different. Remember - I am a fan of the Plain top for full disclosure. I believe I only have three flame tops in my stable - all veneer, and I'm OK with that. Especially since they were all under $300.

 

[NegativeEase]

Ace, how about posting a pic of what you consider the minimum look on executing a flame top should be -and a pic of slightly under -that way we can all assess your "line" and see gauge where we are.

 

[NegativeEase]

Also, by the same line of thought -do you consider a piece lower quality if the birds eye isn't distributed evenly across the entire neck or body? as in, the wood selection for the part was poor?

 

[Aceman]

Ace, how about posting a pic of what you consider the minimum look on executing a flame top should be -and a pic of slightly under -that way we can all assess your "line" and see gauge where we are.

There were quite few hanging on the wall there. I can do that...

 

[Aceman]

Also, by the same line of thought -do you consider a piece lower quality if the birds eye isn't distributed evenly across the entire neck or body? as in, the wood selection for the part was poor?

Yes. Whatever piece of wood you choose should have the appearance of being evenly distributed whatever it is.

I don't think anyone would disagree with that. Even Burl wood, which will obviously be more/less sparse. Still....


What I see there says to me; We sliced the wood, slapped it on the CNC and didn't even look. That makes a whole lotta sense based on what we know about Gibson.


And of course, we have to ask...How many Les Pauls do they make, vs how many actually move....THAT I would really like to know. If all of those are moving and inventory is turning, more power to them. But if it isn't, well, that explains a lot too, doesn't it?

 

[NegativeEase]

Yes. Whatever piece of wood you choose should have the appearance of being evenly distributed whatever it is.

I don't think anyone would disagree with that. Even Burl wood, which will obviously be more/less sparse. Still....


What I see there says to me; We sliced the wood, slapped it on the CNC and didn't even look. That makes a whole lotta sense based on what we know about Gibson.


And of course, we have to ask...How many Les Pauls do they make, vs how many actually move....THAT I would really like to know. If all of those are moving and inventory is turning, more power to them. But if it isn't, well, that explains a lot too, doesn't it?

So that bigs the question.. should a company not attempt to make a type appointment if the wood isn't available as the standard for a collector expected? Or do you feel the selections you see are misrepresented as to their grade and cost? or both?

I don't buy guitars with vestigial appointments generally -it's not that I can't appreciate a luthier's skill -but they more often feel like something to be put in a case -and I'm not a collector -all my guitars are tools and player grade -so not my thing, so I really don't look hard at this kind of detail when I put one off the wall. So when I post that in the last several years that I haven't generally seen Gibson quality issues -it was in the context of set up execution, playability and sound

-could the tiger maple have lacked symmetry -I think so, and I wouldn't have registered it likely.

 

[dave74]

This matters only if you plan on hanging them on the wall
HOw do they sound /feel In a dark room

Those are sure high prices for a great sounding dark room guitar.
Do they even have stainless frets? Probably not "vintage correct" enough lol.

 

[dave74]

Yes. Whatever piece of wood you choose should have the appearance of being evenly distributed whatever it is.

I don't think anyone would disagree with that. Even Burl wood, which will obviously be more/less sparse. Still....


What I see there says to me; We sliced the wood, slapped it on the CNC and didn't even look. That makes a whole lotta sense based on what we know about Gibson.


And of course, we have to ask...How many Les Pauls do they make, vs how many actually move....THAT I would really like to know. If all of those are moving and inventory is turning, more power to them. But if it isn't, well, that explains a lot too, doesn't it?

It really must be those same fat cats that will be clogging the Garage who are allowing Gibson to bask in their own mediocrity by buying these at such inflated prices.
On the other hand, without such awesome profit margins we wouldn't have this posh customer experience center now would we lol.

 

[Mincer]

So that bigs the question.. should a company not attempt to make a type appointment if the wood isn't available as the standard for a collector expected? Or do you feel the selections you see are misrepresented as to their grade and cost? or both?

I don't buy guitars with vestigial appointments generally -it's not that I can't appreciate a luthier's skill -but they more often feel like something to be put in a case -and I'm not a collector -all my guitars are tools and player grade -so not my thing, so I really don't look hard at this kind of detail when I put one off the wall. So when I post that in the last several years that I haven't generally seen Gibson quality issues -it was in the context of set up execution, playability and sound

-could the tiger maple have lacked symmetry -I think so, and I wouldn't have registered it likely.

If the standard isn't there, don't offer it. I think they are selling something they know is sub-par. I know it probably sounds fine- at least as good as a guitar half the price. But I bet the guitars were gonna end up in GC, and not the Gibson Garage or any other specialty shop. They wouldn't get picked for the Nashville Showroom.

I wonder if their goal is to have specialty shops in every major city, and pull them out of chains like GC and SA. It sort of worked for Harley.

 

[NegativeEase]

If the standard isn't there, don't offer it. I think they are selling something they know is sub-par. I know it probably sounds fine- at least as good as a guitar half the price. But I bet the guitars were gonna end up in GC, and not the Gibson Garage or any other specialty shop. They wouldn't get picked for the Nashville Showroom.

I wonder if their goal is to have specialty shops in every major city, and pull them out of chains like GC and SA. It sort of worked for Harley.

This is thinking like a private equity group looking to establish a lifestyle brand..

I think you are on to something.

 

[ICTGoober]

I'm gonna go full luthier here, and say I like wood in all it's many flavors. It's not a manufactured material, so I don't expect perfection or conformity. I find beauty in the variations and differences. You don't like it, God will grow more.