Re: Gibson Last straw...
OK man, are you actually actively TRYING to misunderstand what I'm saying?
No, you're just not making yourself clear. When someone says somebody is "milking it", to me that means they are continuing something that has become passe, is no longer hip, and they should either move on to something else or get off the stage. So to me it sounds like you're saying Gibson should stop making LP's, 335's, SG's, etc.
KeeperOS said:
Look man, 50 years ago everything had to be made by hand. EVERYTHING.
Maybe you missed a digit and meant 500 years ago, but 50 years ago was nowhere near as technologically backward as you seem to think. By 1958 (50 years ago), supersonic flight, nuclear weapons, and nuclear-powered ships, and the existence of computers were already old news. They didn't build nuclear subs and supersonic fighters by hand. It was not a world of Amish and Luddites.
Likewise there were plenty of machines at the Gibson factory, to rough-cut the wood, wind the pickups, mold the plastic bobbins, make all the hardware, and other tech companies to make the pots and switches, etc. So likewise, the 50's Gibsons were not made entirely by hand. More so than now, sure, but not as much more so as you think.
keeper said:
When one man builds the same thing 50-100 times one cannot expect to get it exactly the same EVERY time. Let alone when there are 50-100 different people building it so, yeah, I guess it would come as no surprise how some would be dogs too. But today, the technology and the manufacture methods and procedures exist so that it IS possible to build 50-100 the same thing and it still be identical every time. Just look at a Carvin or sth.
I have a Carvin 6-string bass that I really dig. Have played and checked out many Carvins (they used to have an outlet store near where I used to work) and they do probably the most consistently marvelous fretwork of any maker.
That said, my 6-string bass had nut slots cut way too deep on the lowest 3 strings that requires me to stuff aluminum foil in the slots to keep the open strings from buzzing on the first fret. Plus there were other dogs on the rack at the outlet store.
Point being that CNC's and other high tech machines are no guarantee that you won't put out dogs from time to time. Even the highest tech machines can break down, or have parts that wear out, or the microprocessors go goofy, or have their maintenance neglected or otherwise improperly performed. And you can also have operator error. And even if the workmanship is flawless, the guitar might be made with a crap piece of wood that makes the guitar sound like hitting a piece of cardboard with a plastic fork.
And the proof is that all the other big makers also have access to all this high tech manufacturing equipment, and yet they still put out dogs to varying degrees. Yet everyone throws a fit when Gibson does it, primarily over the price, even though the guitars made by some of these other makers cost even more than Gibsons (see PRS).
As I've said many times, Gibson has some problems that definitely need solving. Customer service and fretwork are my main complaints, though they seem to have addressed the latter with the Plekked Standard, and their humbuckers are pretty much mediocre to downright crappy.
That said, it's just silly to write Gibson off after finding a few clunkers on the rack. Because when you find one that's right, and it's really not very hard, it's waaaaaay worth the money.
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