Gibson licensing builds to Echopark Guitars?
- Thread starter 67Mopar
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Silence Kid
New member
Re: Gibson licensing builds to Echopark Guitars?
...So did Gibson get bored waiting for their dial-up to connect and do a HotBot search on Echo Park's reputation - or did they knowingly accept another PR bungle thinking they could power through it? You can't make this stuff up, huh.
Before the 100 page flaming Echo Park threads of shame started coming around, I remember the guitars being pretty well lauded/gorgeous - apparently the move to Detroit and teething issues related to that exist as the pivot point. I've never dealt with them, but it's a shame to watch anyway.
...So did Gibson get bored waiting for their dial-up to connect and do a HotBot search on Echo Park's reputation - or did they knowingly accept another PR bungle thinking they could power through it? You can't make this stuff up, huh.
Before the 100 page flaming Echo Park threads of shame started coming around, I remember the guitars being pretty well lauded/gorgeous - apparently the move to Detroit and teething issues related to that exist as the pivot point. I've never dealt with them, but it's a shame to watch anyway.
Re: Gibson licensing builds to Echopark Guitars?
Why would Gibson license their designs, especially after releasing that goofy "play authentic" clip?
Why would Gibson license their designs, especially after releasing that goofy "play authentic" clip?
DavidRavenMoon
New member
Re: Gibson licensing builds to Echopark Guitars?
So they can make some money from the builders copying their designs. In their mind it’s offsetting the money they lose when people buy other guitars.
I doubt they will be able to defend their trademarks because they never tried to defend them for the past 40 years. Fender tried this and lost. The court said they allowed their designs to become generic.
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So they can make some money from the builders copying their designs. In their mind it’s offsetting the money they lose when people buy other guitars.
I doubt they will be able to defend their trademarks because they never tried to defend them for the past 40 years. Fender tried this and lost. The court said they allowed their designs to become generic.
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Re: Gibson licensing builds to Echopark Guitars?
Business 101 here really.........
Much easier to make money off those reallywanting to use things like the headstock shape and other aspects. Fender has done the same thing already with Warmoth and others.
And a licensing agreement makes it Authentic for those makers of course. But just for shape rather than the ability to put a G logo on there.
Business 101 here really.........
Much easier to make money off those reallywanting to use things like the headstock shape and other aspects. Fender has done the same thing already with Warmoth and others.
And a licensing agreement makes it Authentic for those makers of course. But just for shape rather than the ability to put a G logo on there.
St_Genesius
New member
Re: Gibson licensing builds to Echopark Guitars?
I wish they'd license the headstock shape to THEMSELVES for the Epiphone line.
I wish they'd license the headstock shape to THEMSELVES for the Epiphone line.
Re: Gibson licensing builds to Echopark Guitars?
Speaking of Charlie Starr. I purchased a set of Tyson Tone 57 Wind P90's for my LP Deluxe goldtop last year, but never installed them. I traded a set of Ludwig drums for a new 2015 LP Less Plus P-90 Goldtop. The Less Plus sounds so good, I ended-up tossing the Tyson's in my top drawer. Everyone has a top drawer, don't they?
Speaking of Charlie Starr. I purchased a set of Tyson Tone 57 Wind P90's for my LP Deluxe goldtop last year, but never installed them. I traded a set of Ludwig drums for a new 2015 LP Less Plus P-90 Goldtop. The Less Plus sounds so good, I ended-up tossing the Tyson's in my top drawer. Everyone has a top drawer, don't they?
DavidRavenMoon
New member
Re: Gibson licensing builds to Echopark Guitars?
But that was Epiphone’s headstock since before Gibson bought them.
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But that was Epiphone’s headstock since before Gibson bought them.
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St_Genesius
New member
Re: Gibson licensing builds to Echopark Guitars?
I know. Still don't care for it on LPs, SGs and the like.
I know. Still don't care for it on LPs, SGs and the like.
But that was Epiphone’s headstock since before Gibson bought them.
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Re: Gibson licensing builds to Echopark Guitars?
Gibsons only mis step here (and it was a BIG one) was that rant by Agnesi.
The market for clones is tiny.......I hang out on luthier forums here and there, and even there you get only a fraction of the builds being full-on Gibson clones (including logo). Most of the builders are individuals who are making only for their own use and maybe 1 or 2 instruments.
Since Bartlett guitars and Gil Yaron moved to putting their own designs into place, there are no 'high volume' boutique builders any more.
They can make great money from places like Warmoth and Precision too.........if they charge the right price.
Gibsons only mis step here (and it was a BIG one) was that rant by Agnesi.
The market for clones is tiny.......I hang out on luthier forums here and there, and even there you get only a fraction of the builds being full-on Gibson clones (including logo). Most of the builders are individuals who are making only for their own use and maybe 1 or 2 instruments.
Since Bartlett guitars and Gil Yaron moved to putting their own designs into place, there are no 'high volume' boutique builders any more.
They can make great money from places like Warmoth and Precision too.........if they charge the right price.
PFDarkside
of the Forum
Re: Gibson licensing builds to Echopark Guitars?
Is Echo Park going to be making “Gibson” guitars or are they going to be making “Echo Park” guitars with body and headstock shapes matching Gibson’s?
My friend has an Echo Park, he loves it. I don’t know the era, but I’m fairly certain it’s Detroit.
Is Echo Park going to be making “Gibson” guitars or are they going to be making “Echo Park” guitars with body and headstock shapes matching Gibson’s?
My friend has an Echo Park, he loves it. I don’t know the era, but I’m fairly certain it’s Detroit.
Re: Gibson licensing builds to Echopark Guitars?
Off-topic here, but since I'm thinking about it... A couple of years ago, I got to play a 1959 LP Standard, and a 1958 LP Standard. What amazed me, was how light they were! I don't think either one of them weighed more than 8 lbs. The owned explained why this was the case... Wood from the top of the tree is lighter than the bottom. I believe one of his guitars was an Echopark. It looked like a funky shaped Telecaster type thing.
Off-topic here, but since I'm thinking about it... A couple of years ago, I got to play a 1959 LP Standard, and a 1958 LP Standard. What amazed me, was how light they were! I don't think either one of them weighed more than 8 lbs. The owned explained why this was the case... Wood from the top of the tree is lighter than the bottom. I believe one of his guitars was an Echopark. It looked like a funky shaped Telecaster type thing.
ErikH
Well-known member
Re: Gibson licensing builds to Echopark Guitars?
My guess, without reading more about it, is they are licensing the shapes to be used, as someone mentioned. This could also explain why Precision Guitars Kits is offering the V-Type and X-Type kits again (V and Explorer respectively). Not a bad move, IMO. Fender did this years ago.
My guess, without reading more about it, is they are licensing the shapes to be used, as someone mentioned. This could also explain why Precision Guitars Kits is offering the V-Type and X-Type kits again (V and Explorer respectively). Not a bad move, IMO. Fender did this years ago.
Re: Gibson licensing builds to Echopark Guitars?
I get the feeling that the new Gibson may be more interested in profiting off the brand vs building instruments. I once owned an El Degas LP Custom that was an excellent guitar! If Gibson intends on contracting an outside entity to build their instruments, and charge the same price, the effort will fail. Now, if Gibson were to contract with an entity like Fujigen of Japan, and sell Gibson guitars at a huge discount, they will succeed. A CS R9 sunburst for $1500.00... yeah, I'd be all over that.
I get the feeling that the new Gibson may be more interested in profiting off the brand vs building instruments. I once owned an El Degas LP Custom that was an excellent guitar! If Gibson intends on contracting an outside entity to build their instruments, and charge the same price, the effort will fail. Now, if Gibson were to contract with an entity like Fujigen of Japan, and sell Gibson guitars at a huge discount, they will succeed. A CS R9 sunburst for $1500.00... yeah, I'd be all over that.
Re: Gibson licensing builds to Echopark Guitars?
Gibson's big mind**** is that it works with stores and dealers. If they were to retail directly to the consumer, the prices would be 1/3 of these. Literally.
When I was working for an other huge American guitar maker, that also starts with a G, I saw their pricing pop up and it was insanity. Their USA line acoustics would sell to vendors at a 100% mark up, and they'd sell that with a 50% mark up, in effect tripling the cost of that guitar. No exceptions, all across the board: high or low. A 3000 dollar guitar would, thusly, be in effect be only worth 1000 dollars.
That's why USA made Kiesels are relatively cheap.
As to WHY they can be so cheap, it's easy: economics of scale. It's cheaper, per guitar, to build 100 versions of the exact same guitar than to build one. As soon as you scale up, it's so much cheaper to build a guitar as well as to maintain quality. But then there's a point where it's more economic to let quality inspection slip. Helas.
Gibson's big mind**** is that it works with stores and dealers. If they were to retail directly to the consumer, the prices would be 1/3 of these. Literally.
When I was working for an other huge American guitar maker, that also starts with a G, I saw their pricing pop up and it was insanity. Their USA line acoustics would sell to vendors at a 100% mark up, and they'd sell that with a 50% mark up, in effect tripling the cost of that guitar. No exceptions, all across the board: high or low. A 3000 dollar guitar would, thusly, be in effect be only worth 1000 dollars.
That's why USA made Kiesels are relatively cheap.
As to WHY they can be so cheap, it's easy: economics of scale. It's cheaper, per guitar, to build 100 versions of the exact same guitar than to build one. As soon as you scale up, it's so much cheaper to build a guitar as well as to maintain quality. But then there's a point where it's more economic to let quality inspection slip. Helas.
