Re: Gibson must be stepping up their game
You OBVIOUSLY have not played many Gibsons.
You OBVIOUSLY have not played many Gibsons.
Gibson must be stepping up their game
- Thread starter brentrocks
- Start date
BeKindRewind
New member
Re: Gibson must be stepping up their game
And it's not like I'm some Gibson fanboy either. My favorite guitars are Ibanez by far, then Jackson. I'm just saying what my experience has been in 15 years of playing guitar. Have I never touched a quality instrument ? I don't know, I've owned a custom shop ESP-> (that was definitely the best guitar I've ever touched) and several USA Jacksons, fenders, many high end Gibsons , and Japanese Ibanez so I guess that's up to you. I definitely don't want to start an argument but I can't help but feel a little bit attacked
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I've played tons of them man. Never played one that wasn't good. But I've played tons of guitars with the Ibanez, fender and Jackson names on them that were hardly worth the struggle to try and play. That was kind of my point, Gibson is the only brand I know of that does it differently, they put their import guitars under a different name so there's a clear distinction. So in that regard , even the "low end" Gibsons , like the sub 1000$ fadeds and specials I've played have been quality instruments. Are there bad Gibsons out there ? Sure , I guess, it's not that I don't believe you. but that hasn't been my experience personally. My only gripe has been that they can't seem to cut a nut right, they always seem to go out of tune at the nut. but once that's fixed I've loved every one I've owned.
And it's not like I'm some Gibson fanboy either. My favorite guitars are Ibanez by far, then Jackson. I'm just saying what my experience has been in 15 years of playing guitar. Have I never touched a quality instrument ? I don't know, I've owned a custom shop ESP-> (that was definitely the best guitar I've ever touched) and several USA Jacksons, fenders, many high end Gibsons , and Japanese Ibanez so I guess that's up to you. I definitely don't want to start an argument but I can't help but feel a little bit attacked
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brentrocks
New member
Re: Gibson must be stepping up their game
I had them made from Philadelphia luthier tools
I had them made from Philadelphia luthier tools
Re: Gibson must be stepping up their game
No. not meaning to "attack" you. I've been playing guitar for over 60 years. My first electric was a 1960 Gibson ES330. Exceptional guitar in every respect. Since then I have owned a dozen or more Gibsons and have played and repaired countless others. It has been MY experience that the early Gibsons were quality instruments, like you say, but that quality has significantly faded over the past years...they have rested on their laurels and have depended upon their name/reputation of the past to sell their guitars.
And actually, their lower priced guitars display much better quality control than their (EXTREMELY) overpriced more expensive guitars.
Also, notice that I wasn't commenting about other brands that you have named...just Gibson.
I'm NOT a Gibson hater. And I'm obviously not a fanboy either. But I am a realist. Give me a good quality Epiphone over a high-end Gibson any day of the week. And at 1/5th the cost!!! [Heck, even the moderately priced Epis have better quality control (note I'm NOT talking about materials or hardware) and at 1/10th the cost!]
PS: Recent Gibson quality control is a universally known issue. It is not just my opinion.
PPS: Your sig pic/vid is still the best ever!
No. not meaning to "attack" you. I've been playing guitar for over 60 years. My first electric was a 1960 Gibson ES330. Exceptional guitar in every respect. Since then I have owned a dozen or more Gibsons and have played and repaired countless others. It has been MY experience that the early Gibsons were quality instruments, like you say, but that quality has significantly faded over the past years...they have rested on their laurels and have depended upon their name/reputation of the past to sell their guitars.
And actually, their lower priced guitars display much better quality control than their (EXTREMELY) overpriced more expensive guitars.
Also, notice that I wasn't commenting about other brands that you have named...just Gibson.
I'm NOT a Gibson hater. And I'm obviously not a fanboy either. But I am a realist. Give me a good quality Epiphone over a high-end Gibson any day of the week. And at 1/5th the cost!!! [Heck, even the moderately priced Epis have better quality control (note I'm NOT talking about materials or hardware) and at 1/10th the cost!]
PS: Recent Gibson quality control is a universally known issue. It is not just my opinion.
PPS: Your sig pic/vid is still the best ever!
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Re: Gibson must be stepping up their game
Did they screw up, or is that how you ordered them? I have always had good experience with them.
Did they screw up, or is that how you ordered them? I have always had good experience with them.
brentrocks
New member
Re: Gibson must be stepping up their game
I had them made at Philadelphia luthier tools I saw an ad in the back of vintage guitar magazine so I ordered some
Yes I had a made that way. Just trying to do something a little different
I had them made at Philadelphia luthier tools I saw an ad in the back of vintage guitar magazine so I ordered some
Yes I had a made that way. Just trying to do something a little different
brentrocks
New member
Re: Gibson must be stepping up their game
Do you ever have anything nice or positive to say....you are such an ass most of the time.
Do you ever have anything nice or positive to say....you are such an ass most of the time.
BeKindRewind
New member
Re: Gibson must be stepping up their game
And oh yeah, Aubrey Hepburn is muh girl. I'm fascinated with her even though I was born long after her heyday
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Yeah I apologize for getting defensive there. That was not my finest moment. It's cool you've been playing guitar twice as long as I've been alive. I've played a lot of Gibsons but not quite as expansive of a time frame... The one I still own is a 2012 but other than that most of the ones I played were in the mid 2000's when I was really into buying and trading gear. I've mellowed out considerably since then. The search is over , I know what I like and don't like and I've got my set of guitars now that I'll have for the rest of my life. So thankfully, now, quality control isn't something I have much concern over! Lol
And oh yeah, Aubrey Hepburn is muh girl. I'm fascinated with her even though I was born long after her heyday
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BeKindRewind
New member
Re: Gibson must be stepping up their game
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I like it man. At first I was trying to figure out whose signature model it was. Brent Hinds ? Nah... Can't be.. but I guess it is. Then I clued in to your username
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metlking
Well-known member
Re: Gibson must be stepping up their game
I just picked up one of those (used) this summer along with a 2018 single cut Junior and a 2019 50's Goldtop P-90. Fantastic guitars! All flawless and set up really well. And yes.....I was bitten by the P90 bug this year!
I just picked up one of those (used) this summer along with a 2018 single cut Junior and a 2019 50's Goldtop P-90. Fantastic guitars! All flawless and set up really well. And yes.....I was bitten by the P90 bug this year!
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NegativeEase
New member
Re: Gibson must be stepping up their game
I think an important distinction must be pointed out -that sort of explains why all parties are probably not incorrect in their assessment of Gibson.
In a down quality year or era from a Guitar company, the company still manages to put out plenty of great and perfect guitars -just more defects make it out the door in a down year -they still have people making great ones.
So, your opinion on Gibson overall is probably more accurate based on how many you touch during a given year.... plus many issues are shipping and the store tweaking, and other customers screwing them up -A lot of factors before you noodle with it.
The only Gibson I played in the store this year was damn near perfect, but last year a played a crop of them that had some minor problems..... and yet in the aggregate -Gibson's quality overall could of been better last year than this year and I wouldn't know -I only know what I've touched.
I haven't touched enough to have anything other than a microcosm or personal experience and generalizing the entire output of of corporation that makes 10,000 guitars personally and oversees the making of 10-15k more.
I'd say a dealer like Guitar Center or Sam Ash employee knows better handling 500 or them in a year or someone setting up dozens and dozens of new ones a year will know better of generalized assessment of Gibson's performance
I think an important distinction must be pointed out -that sort of explains why all parties are probably not incorrect in their assessment of Gibson.
In a down quality year or era from a Guitar company, the company still manages to put out plenty of great and perfect guitars -just more defects make it out the door in a down year -they still have people making great ones.
So, your opinion on Gibson overall is probably more accurate based on how many you touch during a given year.... plus many issues are shipping and the store tweaking, and other customers screwing them up -A lot of factors before you noodle with it.
The only Gibson I played in the store this year was damn near perfect, but last year a played a crop of them that had some minor problems..... and yet in the aggregate -Gibson's quality overall could of been better last year than this year and I wouldn't know -I only know what I've touched.
I haven't touched enough to have anything other than a microcosm or personal experience and generalizing the entire output of of corporation that makes 10,000 guitars personally and oversees the making of 10-15k more.
I'd say a dealer like Guitar Center or Sam Ash employee knows better handling 500 or them in a year or someone setting up dozens and dozens of new ones a year will know better of generalized assessment of Gibson's performance
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Re: Gibson must be stepping up their game
Good timing on this thread. It's been quite a while since the bankruptcy and I am very curious as to how things may have changed.
But first of all, congrats on getting a great guitar. As others have said Gibson has always made good guitars... it's the bad guitars that messed them up. I've got a good one and I've always been interested in seeing them succeed.
Would love to hear some clips!
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Good timing on this thread. It's been quite a while since the bankruptcy and I am very curious as to how things may have changed.
But first of all, congrats on getting a great guitar. As others have said Gibson has always made good guitars... it's the bad guitars that messed them up. I've got a good one and I've always been interested in seeing them succeed.
Would love to hear some clips!
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Securb
One of Jerry's Kids
Re: Gibson must be stepping up their game
Same here, my girlfriend bought me a Les Paul Lite I thought she deserved to be on the headstock. They do nice work with a quick turnaround.
Same here, my girlfriend bought me a Les Paul Lite I thought she deserved to be on the headstock. They do nice work with a quick turnaround.
Re: Gibson must be stepping up their game
How are the Lites? Are they neck heavy? I always wondered about the 80s/90s ones, too.
Same here, my girlfriend bought me a Les Paul Lite I thought she deserved to be on the headstock. They do nice work with a quick turnaround.
How are the Lites? Are they neck heavy? I always wondered about the 80s/90s ones, too.
ItsaBass
New member
Re: Gibson must be stepping up their game
I was quite impressed with the quality bump as soon as the 2019s hit. And I was a huge Gibson critic during the last 10 to 15 years of Henry J.
Outside of Custom, Art, and Historic instruments, I haven't played a new Henry J. era Gibson that I thought was particularly well built. And I play probably 100 new Gibsons per year on average, just because I always grab at least half dozen any time I go in to a guitar shop for strings or the like.
Tonally, they can be great, and they can look great too. I own sevaral, and have owned several others that I moved along. But they skimped on the labor consuming finer points that make the difference between an outstanding guitar and an OK guitar, and it only got worse as the Henry J. years went on. I love my Henry J. era Gibsons for tone and looks, but the bottom line is that every single one of them needed a new nut and some serious fret work. Many of them have sub-par finishes. Several of them have poor cleanup work in the cavities prior to finishing. Out of the literally hundreds I have played in shops over the years, NOT ONE had what I consider to be quality fret dressing or a properly cut nut.
Now, it's fine if you want to skimp on that stuff...but you don't charge luxury brand prices if that's what you are gonna do.
It became a situation in which I knew what to expect from a factory Gibson: a project. I only shopped for them on special or used, because I knew that they were stupidly overpriced, and that every one would have to have at least $150 put into it to make it play truly well. If buying a Les Paul Standard made of traditional Honduran mahogany for $1,600 new, as I did with mine (on sale in 2004), that's a bit more stomachable than if buying one for the $2,600 they were retailing for at the end, made of non-traditional LP materials, still needing $150 in fret and nut work.
FWIW, I own three pre-Norlin Gibsons, one Norlin Gibson, six Henry J. era Gibsons, and one post Henry J. I've sold off three Henry J. ones as well. Every single one of the Henry J. ones needed a new nut, and a fairly extreme fret crowning, end dressing, and polish. None of the others need a thing, and they are all original.
I was quite impressed with the quality bump as soon as the 2019s hit. And I was a huge Gibson critic during the last 10 to 15 years of Henry J.
Outside of Custom, Art, and Historic instruments, I haven't played a new Henry J. era Gibson that I thought was particularly well built. And I play probably 100 new Gibsons per year on average, just because I always grab at least half dozen any time I go in to a guitar shop for strings or the like.
Tonally, they can be great, and they can look great too. I own sevaral, and have owned several others that I moved along. But they skimped on the labor consuming finer points that make the difference between an outstanding guitar and an OK guitar, and it only got worse as the Henry J. years went on. I love my Henry J. era Gibsons for tone and looks, but the bottom line is that every single one of them needed a new nut and some serious fret work. Many of them have sub-par finishes. Several of them have poor cleanup work in the cavities prior to finishing. Out of the literally hundreds I have played in shops over the years, NOT ONE had what I consider to be quality fret dressing or a properly cut nut.
Now, it's fine if you want to skimp on that stuff...but you don't charge luxury brand prices if that's what you are gonna do.
It became a situation in which I knew what to expect from a factory Gibson: a project. I only shopped for them on special or used, because I knew that they were stupidly overpriced, and that every one would have to have at least $150 put into it to make it play truly well. If buying a Les Paul Standard made of traditional Honduran mahogany for $1,600 new, as I did with mine (on sale in 2004), that's a bit more stomachable than if buying one for the $2,600 they were retailing for at the end, made of non-traditional LP materials, still needing $150 in fret and nut work.
FWIW, I own three pre-Norlin Gibsons, one Norlin Gibson, six Henry J. era Gibsons, and one post Henry J. I've sold off three Henry J. ones as well. Every single one of the Henry J. ones needed a new nut, and a fairly extreme fret crowning, end dressing, and polish. None of the others need a thing, and they are all original.
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Re: Gibson must be stepping up their game
I think you nailed it, Itsabass.
Certainly there are several quality issues, but my biggest gripe is also the fretwork...specifically how the fret ends meet the binding nibs. There is almost always a couple frets on most Gibson models where there is a gap. The high "E" string especially, clicks when you pull it off the metal fret onto the plastic binding nib. I've had a couple high-end LPs where the string actually got stuck in the gap. Just last month I repaired a friend's brand new SG that had close to a dozen of those fret-end gaps.
I absolutely HATE binding done like that! It's a lot of time-consuming work to fix it properly.
I think you nailed it, Itsabass.
Certainly there are several quality issues, but my biggest gripe is also the fretwork...specifically how the fret ends meet the binding nibs. There is almost always a couple frets on most Gibson models where there is a gap. The high "E" string especially, clicks when you pull it off the metal fret onto the plastic binding nib. I've had a couple high-end LPs where the string actually got stuck in the gap. Just last month I repaired a friend's brand new SG that had close to a dozen of those fret-end gaps.
I absolutely HATE binding done like that! It's a lot of time-consuming work to fix it properly.
JB_From_Hell
Jomo's Nimions
Re: Gibson must be stepping up their game
My opinion on Gibson is based on:
1) The neck falling off of my '62 LP/SG, and learning that the scale length was screwed up from the factory
2) My early 50's ES-175 dripping with mojo
3) The 5-ish year old Melody Maker I owned briefly being a complete piece of junk
4) Gibson's seemingly intentional inability to just be cool
My opinion on Gibson is based on:
1) The neck falling off of my '62 LP/SG, and learning that the scale length was screwed up from the factory
2) My early 50's ES-175 dripping with mojo
3) The 5-ish year old Melody Maker I owned briefly being a complete piece of junk
4) Gibson's seemingly intentional inability to just be cool