I really love my 1998 SG Special (the serial number is dated exactly to the day I was born) but the one thing I don't like about it is the tuners. I think they're Kluson deluxes, not too sure. I find them too loose and tuning is not always stable particularly when bending notes. I've been thinking of replacing them with Grover Rotomatics which is a common mod but I've read some peoples comments saying that a switch over isn't necessary and can effect tone and weight (though its not something that bothers me too much). Shall I switch or do something else to solve the issue? Suggestions?
Gibson SG tuners
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HiFiRebel
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Re: Gibson SG tuners
The tone and weight won't be affected that much. Well worth the upgrade if the stock ones aren't working correctly.
The tone and weight won't be affected that much. Well worth the upgrade if the stock ones aren't working correctly.
Re: Gibson SG tuners
Tuning stability is 99% the nut. I would almost guarantee you'll have no effect on tuning stability just with a tuner change.
SG's in particular are affected by much heavier tuners like Grovers....neck dive is the issue.
You might also have to drill out the headstock to fit them.
Tuning stability is 99% the nut. I would almost guarantee you'll have no effect on tuning stability just with a tuner change.
SG's in particular are affected by much heavier tuners like Grovers....neck dive is the issue.
You might also have to drill out the headstock to fit them.
Re: Gibson SG tuners
I currently have only one guitar with vintage/Kluson style tuners. It's a Godin semi-hollow and the tuners are either no-name or Godin stamped (cant recall which). They are very smooth and the tuning is stable as hell. It is on all 3 of my Godin guitars. Godin does their nuts up right
. Point being, I agree with AlexR in that it's probably not the Tuners. Besides that, popular opinion is that Grovers aren't as good as they were since manufacturing got outsourced. Judging by the Grover machines on a 2013 LP, I would agree with that. I don't know when Grover made the change but the same model Grover machines on some of my older imports are much smoother than those on the LP. They work fine on the LP, they just don't feel as nice. Unless the machines on your SG really are causing the tuning issues, you may be better off with them than new Grovers. I definitely wouldn't trade the "no-name" vintage style machines on my Godin for a set of Grovers.
If you do change anyway, unless you are planning on spending a lot of money, I would look at Gotohs before Grovers. If you are considering spending more, look at the Ratio tuners from Graphtech. They sell adapter/mounting plates which may let you switch machines without having to worry about seeing and/or filling and refinishing to hide the old mounting holes. The adapters aren't very expensive from what I recall. I don't own any of the Ratio tuners but it's a great concept and the few reports I've seen have been real positive.
I currently have only one guitar with vintage/Kluson style tuners. It's a Godin semi-hollow and the tuners are either no-name or Godin stamped (cant recall which). They are very smooth and the tuning is stable as hell. It is on all 3 of my Godin guitars. Godin does their nuts up right
. Point being, I agree with AlexR in that it's probably not the Tuners. Besides that, popular opinion is that Grovers aren't as good as they were since manufacturing got outsourced. Judging by the Grover machines on a 2013 LP, I would agree with that. I don't know when Grover made the change but the same model Grover machines on some of my older imports are much smoother than those on the LP. They work fine on the LP, they just don't feel as nice. Unless the machines on your SG really are causing the tuning issues, you may be better off with them than new Grovers. I definitely wouldn't trade the "no-name" vintage style machines on my Godin for a set of Grovers. If you do change anyway, unless you are planning on spending a lot of money, I would look at Gotohs before Grovers. If you are considering spending more, look at the Ratio tuners from Graphtech. They sell adapter/mounting plates which may let you switch machines without having to worry about seeing and/or filling and refinishing to hide the old mounting holes. The adapters aren't very expensive from what I recall. I don't own any of the Ratio tuners but it's a great concept and the few reports I've seen have been real positive.
Re: Gibson SG tuners
I'll admit I am also inclined to change just cus I'm not a fan of plastic tuners. Am I right in thinking certain SG models such as the Custom have Grovers? Are they particularly affected by neck dive? Grovers do seem to be less common on SG's compared to Les Pauls. If I do decide to change them I would be taking it to a shop to do it as I don't have the proper tools to do so at home.
I'll admit I am also inclined to change just cus I'm not a fan of plastic tuners. Am I right in thinking certain SG models such as the Custom have Grovers? Are they particularly affected by neck dive? Grovers do seem to be less common on SG's compared to Les Pauls. If I do decide to change them I would be taking it to a shop to do it as I don't have the proper tools to do so at home.
dystrust
Well-known member
Re: Gibson SG tuners
Gibson calls their Kluson-style tuners 'Gibson Deluxe', but there are at least two different tuners with this name. Their custom shop guitars (and higher end Memphis ones) ship with an excellent Kluson copy (reportedly made by Gotoh) that use vintage diameter push-in bushings. If your SG Special is a Custom Shop 60s RI, you probably have these tuners and I doubt they're the cause of your tuning issues.
Gibson USA OTOH uses an entirely different 'Gibson Deluxe' tuner. This one fits into a 10mm peghead hole with a modern-style screw-in bushing, and their quality control is very inconsistent. I've seen sets that were great, but the set on my 2007 SG Standard sucked. The tuner posts wobbled, so tuning stability was a lost cause regardless of any nut issues. I ended up replacing mine with a set of Gotoh Klusons, but I needed 10mm conversion bushings. If you're absolutely against a tuner with plastic buttons, look into Gotoh SG38s or Schaller M6s. They'll both fit a 10mm peghead hole, and both of them are FAR superior to new production Grovers.
Gibson calls their Kluson-style tuners 'Gibson Deluxe', but there are at least two different tuners with this name. Their custom shop guitars (and higher end Memphis ones) ship with an excellent Kluson copy (reportedly made by Gotoh) that use vintage diameter push-in bushings. If your SG Special is a Custom Shop 60s RI, you probably have these tuners and I doubt they're the cause of your tuning issues.
Gibson USA OTOH uses an entirely different 'Gibson Deluxe' tuner. This one fits into a 10mm peghead hole with a modern-style screw-in bushing, and their quality control is very inconsistent. I've seen sets that were great, but the set on my 2007 SG Standard sucked. The tuner posts wobbled, so tuning stability was a lost cause regardless of any nut issues. I ended up replacing mine with a set of Gotoh Klusons, but I needed 10mm conversion bushings. If you're absolutely against a tuner with plastic buttons, look into Gotoh SG38s or Schaller M6s. They'll both fit a 10mm peghead hole, and both of them are FAR superior to new production Grovers.
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