Gibson's reasoning for running their retailers offline is now unveiled.

[Mkf411]

Re: Gibson's reasoning for running their retailers offline is now unveiled.

I was in Guitar Center recently and played a $4,000 plus Historic Re-issue 59 something or other and it was a beautiful guitar. You could really feel the quality of the instrument. The ebony finger board was gorgeous. The frets were great and the action was nice. Probably one of the nicest guitars I've played.

The only thing that surprised me was that when I went to pull out the guitar cable after finishing playing it, it felt like the whole jack wanted to pull off the guitar. I had to be careful not to pull the jack off the guitar. It seems to be held on with two little screws direct into the wood and a plastic washer or whatever you call it. I'm not sure if this is all that's holding it on, though. But I was a little surpised by this. Maybe something just worked its way loose.

 

[midnite_man]

Re: Gibson's reasoning for running their retailers offline is now unveiled.

I hear what you are saying- I agree that the Studios are the best deals in the Gibson line, and I have looked at quite a few of them. Collectors (IE, non-players) don't want them, because they lack the 'Standard' or 'Custom' label. Fine with me- leave them for the rest of us!! However, I never liked the Jazz neck pickup (or a JB, for that matter!)...give me an APH2 and CC..*that's* the LP sound I like!

As far as the Roland-ready strats, I have played, maybe a dozen of those. And let me say, these are terrible synth guitars. The Roland pickup isn't near what you can get tracking-wise with piezos. They lack things like graphite saddles and nut, and locking tuners, which you absolutely need to make a synth guitar track your playing accurately.

In my Brian Moore, I have the synth/piezo/SD magnetic system- this thing was built from the ground up to get excellent sounds out of all 3 systems. It is really expensive these days to retrofit a guitar with a good piezo/13pin system these days...worse still, if you buy an expensive LP then have to gut the electronics (and silly/stupid to do that). It is not out of the question, however to buy a $600-$700 LP studio and slowly upgrade over time. You get a great guitar in the mean time, but don't overpay for stuff you are going to rip out anyway.

About the Jazz/JB pups: The Jazz really compliments the JB in the aspect that it tones it down when both pups are used. I've found it to be a very pleasurable sound that can be used for both rhythm and lead with a turn of the bridge volume pot. I'll also admit that the JB I'm using is over 30 years old and sounds very much like an old Gibson PAF pickup now. I can actually say "JB" and "Warm tone" in the same sentence. I find I don't use the Jazz that much by itself.
I respect anybody's choice in what pickups they like best in any guitar, as it's all about what your ears are happy with is what counts.
That "synth/piezo/SD magnetic system" you mention sounds so cool...I bet you can get hundreds of different sounds out of it, as well as simplifying your ability to record. I'll leave the high-tech stuff to you, my friend....lol. For all I know you could actually be the guitarist for Tangerine Dream....lol. Are you?....lol
About the Studio: I agonized for a few months about what to buy between the Classic and Standard Les Pauls, not even thinking about the Studio as an option. I thought I needed to have the bells and whistles like the Paulys that all the big boys use. I talked to a few guys on the forum here that I feel are extremely knowledgeable about LP's (you know who you are), and came to the conclusion that I could live without the trim as long as the playability and sound, plus specs and construction was still classic Les Paul....and so it is with my '95 Studio. Arguably one of the best years of the '90's for Les Pauls.
So....for all you guys out there who think you have to buy a Classic, a Standard or Custom, or higher-dollar models, in order to get that Les Paul vibe...don't forget the Gibson model which basically initiates the whole line of Les Pauls, IMO, the very affordable Studio.

Rock on
...Bob

 

[hrhodes]

Re: Gibson's reasoning for running their retailers offline is now unveiled.

THat s a joke all the guitar makers are better and cheaper today. That line that you need a vintage instrament is the biggest load of guitars plus randy full of ahit crap I hav e heard in a while. Yes Randy in west virginia gutairs plus the one who drives a silver bmw is absolutly full of ****

 

[midnite_man]

Re: Gibson's reasoning for running their retailers offline is now unveiled.

THat s a joke all the guitar makers are better and cheaper today. That line that you need a vintage instrament is the biggest load of guitars plus randy full of ahit crap I hav e heard in a while. Yes Randy in west virginia gutairs plus the one who drives a silver bmw is absolutly full of ****

"better and cheaper"......?
What do you mean?

.....Bob

 

[Wattage]

Re: Gibson's reasoning for running their retailers offline is now unveiled.

My first guitar was an LP copy, I've owned several variations on the theme (all excellent guitars) but none of them are an LP sorry. Gibson still makes the best Les Paul style guitar around. If Les Pauls aren't for you or if you've played a few dogs in Gibsons line so be it the company doesn't suck nor do their guitars.

They may have some "lifestyle" stuff certainly but they make plenty of affordable guitars that play superbly when setup professionally. If you are a pro why would you have them setup any other way? Real luthiers and techs don't work for the big boxes very often so you are not walking into a GC or ordering an LP from an olnine superstore like MF and getting a guitar set anywheres near its capabilities. I've owned close to 75 (and played 1000's of) electric guitars in my life and Gibson is still one of the standard bearers in the industry like them or not.

Gibson seems to have found a way to stay alive and competitive in the modern business world of outsourcing and low margins, if they make some mistakes along the way trying to manage their brand name so be it. I want my LP's to say Gibson on the front and "Made in the USA" on back same as they were when I got here and hopefully the same as when I leave.

 

[Dave]

Re: Gibson's reasoning for running their retailers offline is now unveiled.

Hate to be the Gibson-bash party pooper, but...

http://www.amazon.com/gp/search.htm...861,k,k&node=11965861&keywords=seymour+duncan

Lew and John will always have my business....

 

[Mincer]

Re: Gibson's reasoning for running their retailers offline is now unveiled.

Gibson seems to have found a way to stay alive and competitive in the modern business world of outsourcing and low margins, if they make some mistakes along the way trying to manage their brand name so be it. I want my LP's to say Gibson on the front and "Made in the USA" on back same as they were when I got here and hopefully the same as when I leave.

If Gibson does outsourcing (who knows, it can happen with this company) we may start seeing 'Made in Croatia' on the back of the headstocks. This doesn't devalue your guitars though.

 

[That90'sGuy]

Re: Gibson's reasoning for running their retailers offline is now unveiled.

Sorry for the bashing before and I should have expected major flaming for it, but it wouldn't be fair for the guy that wants his money well spent to expect big things from the company at decent prices.

There are good ones out there, but they are few and far between. I agree that playing in person in the best way to get a quality instrument, but bear in mind you have to pay dealer prices, and they are HIGH. A guitar you could find on eBay for 1200, you would have to pay 1800 for etc.

It's different strokes for different folks I guess. I played a sickeningly good LP style Dave Thomas McNaught yesterday at Guitar Hangar and it was only 2 grand. It blows away every singlecut guitar I've tried by far. That was dealer price; when was the last time Gibson got you something really great at a dealer price of 2 grand? Hand made guitars are better than production by far. I used to think it was just hype, but top of the line guitars, they've got some mojo their. The woods are better, the craftsmanship is flawless, they feel and play fantastic... there's no shortcuts anywhere and it's impossible to find that from a company that makes 1000s of guitars a day.

I'm not here to bash on people that like them, but the 490/498s are definitely far from great pickups. Dimarzios, Duncans, Bardens, Fralins, and Wagners are all pickups that would make those stock ones cry. I guess you just don't know what you're missing unless you actually play a guitar with top of the line pickups. When pickups don't sing, they don't sound rich, they exhibit harsh and bland sounding frequencies, I consider them garbage. That's why I don't see anybody on eBay selling stock Epiphone pickups or Fender Atomic humbuckers

 

[midnite_man]

Re: Gibson's reasoning for running their retailers offline is now unveiled.

My first guitar was an LP copy, I've owned several variations on the theme (all excellent guitars) but none of them are an LP sorry. Gibson still makes the best Les Paul style guitar around. If Les Pauls aren't for you or if you've played a few dogs in Gibsons line so be it the company doesn't suck nor do their guitars.
Real luthiers and techs don't work for the big boxes very often so you are not walking into a GC or ordering an LP from an olnine superstore like MF and getting a guitar set anywheres near its capabilities. I've owned close to 75 (and played 1000's of) electric guitars in my life and Gibson is still one of the standard bearers in the industry like them or not.
I want my LP's to say Gibson on the front and "Made in the USA" on back same as they were when I got here and hopefully the same as when I leave.

Wattage - I agree with you completely, Gibson makes the Les Paul. Period. Others will make copies, but that's what they'll always be....a copy.

...Bob

 

[midnite_man]

Re: Gibson's reasoning for running their retailers offline is now unveiled.

Sorry for the bashing before and I should have expected major flaming for it, but it wouldn't be fair for the guy that wants his money well spent to expect big things from the company at decent prices.

There are good ones out there, but they are few and far between. I agree that playing in person in the best way to get a quality instrument, but bear in mind you have to pay dealer prices, and they are HIGH. A guitar you could find on eBay for 1200, you would have to pay 1800 for etc.

It's different strokes for different folks I guess. I played a sickeningly good LP style Dave Thomas McNaught yesterday at Guitar Hangar and it was only 2 grand. It blows away every singlecut guitar I've tried by far. That was dealer price; when was the last time Gibson got you something really great at a dealer price of 2 grand? Hand made guitars are better than production by far. I used to think it was just hype, but top of the line guitars, they've got some mojo their. The woods are better, the craftsmanship is flawless, they feel and play fantastic... there's no shortcuts anywhere and it's impossible to find that from a company that makes 1000s of guitars a day.

I'm not here to bash on people that like them, but the 490/498s are definitely far from great pickups. Dimarzios, Duncans, Bardens, Fralins, and Wagners are all pickups that would make those stock ones cry.

Wow, where do I start Chris?....lol
"Good ones, but few and far between?" "1,000's every day?" If you're referring to Gibson Les Pauls I would have to say that statement is false. Not every Pauly you'll come across is going to be set-up the same as the other, so they all won't play the same obviously. Granted, there is talk that the Les Pauls built in the 80's weren't some of the best, but I have found the more recently made models from the 90's to present are well-made and only require a proper set-up to accomadate the player's style.

What defects have you found in most of the Les Pauls you've played, Chris? I'm very curious to know. I'd like anyone to specifically explain to me why Les Pauls aren't as good as their counterpart "copy" models.

As far as pickups are concerned, the only company I've come across recently that installs Seymour Duncans or any other aftermarket pickup mentioned above is Schecter. Poor-sounding stock pickups are just a given it seems in the guitar making industry. But that's probably a blessing in disguise because if manufacturers started putting in those better pups at the factory, we may not be getting those pickups today at the prices we do buy 'em for.

I'm not trying to defend Gibson as there's really nothing to defend. Their line of guitars are what they are...good, reliable, quality instruments. There isn't one manufacturer out there that hasn't had a bad guitar come back on them at one time or another....there's always going to be an unseen defect here and there that simply isn't present to the naked eye while constructing that might show up later during usage.

In conclusion, aren't Gibson guitars "hand-made"? I don't think there are machines at the Gibson factory that just slap 'em together in a robotic fashion....are there?....lol. I'm sure if you walked into a luthier's shop and laid down 2, 3, 4, 5 thousand dollars (or whatever) to have a Les Paul-Style guitar built to your exact specifications and needs, you'd say that the guitar that was built for you by that luthier was the best there was in that style....wouldn't you?
I would, but I don't need a guitar like that when I already have one in my Gison Studio LP that does everything I want plus more, and after paying a lot less.
It boils down to mastering an instrument....and if you're determined enough, you will.
Just play the damn thing....lol...TRY to wear it out....lol

...Bob

 

[some_dude]

Re: Gibson's reasoning for running their retailers offline is now unveiled.

In conclusion, aren't Gibson guitars "hand-made"? I don't think there are machines at the Gibson factory that just slap 'em together in a robotic fashion....are there?....lol.

I was under the impression that they were machine made and hand assembled.

I've seen pictures of the factory, and they had CNC machines machining the parts out.

Fender does the same thing, for 1/3 the cost.

 

[That90'sGuy]

Re: Gibson's reasoning for running their retailers offline is now unveiled.

I've seen it all with Gibson. Poor binding work, finishing flaws, poor electronics, poorly cut nuts, bad fretwork, intonation problems, sloppy inlay work... these are all things I've seen on some of Gibson's "quality" medium line of products (aka the Classics, Standards). Sometimes they are small problems and some of them were just "lemons", but they do exist.

The lower line, well that's a given; I cut my hand on a "faded" sg because of the poor fretwork.

Play the guitar unplugged, I've played plenty of them that sounded horrible (not all, plenty).

Nothing is really fully handmade, and machines are good for some things such as wood cutting (for accuracy purposes). Don't expect these guitars to have fretwork done by hand. With 1000s of guitars a day, I don't think they use select premium wood on their guitars. Obviously, custom shop and historic models, there is MUCH more attention to detail and woods.

I owned a Gibson Les Paul Standard and it was a very good guitar, but I feel I lucked out having tried many others that didn't match the quality.

And yes, Gibson does produce thousands of guitars a day (look up how many models there are and you'll see it doesn't take much). With that many being produced, there is sure to be more than enough lemons in that lineup, there's not enough time to dedicate to each instrument so they get thrown together with the hopes that there won't be any problems.

Also, Bob, where do you come off saying I don't play my guitars (and how is that relevant at all to your stance? - strikes me as a poor below-the-belt way of attacking me and it was done in poor taste )? Hey, if you're happy with your Studio LP, that's all that matters :fing2:

I'm not trying to push anything down anyone's throats so if you hate my posts, ignore me. People will believe whatever they want anyways. If you like Gibson and you still support their instruments and believe that they're superior to everything else out there, then go right ahead... I'm not going to point a gun at your head

P.S. For the record, I never mentioned that LP copies are better than actual Gibsons (Tokai, Epiphone, Agile etc. aren't going to be better). Although, there are higher end LP inspired guitars that blow away the Les Paul IMHO... check out PRS' Singlecut series (another popular guitar) and Dave Thomas McNaught will blow your mind.

 

[Mincer]

Re: Gibson's reasoning for running their retailers offline is now unveiled.

As far as pickups are concerned, the only company I've come across recently that installs Seymour Duncans or any other aftermarket pickup mentioned above is Schecter. Poor-sounding stock pickups are just a given it seems in the guitar making industry. But that's probably a blessing in disguise because if manufacturers started putting in those better pups at the factory, we may not be getting those pickups today at the prices we do buy 'em for.
...Bob

Sorry to hijack this response...but just wondering...if SD makes such great pickups, couldn't companies reverse engineer them? I mean, really, most stock pickups are not so good- even on the LP Customs. Why charge so much and not have the best pickups that could be on there? Why do some people buy $3k LPs and then have to spend another $175 for great pickups? It isnt just Gibson, Fender does it too, so do many companies. Why do many of them skimp on pickups? If high-end companies make great guitars, how come they can't get pickups right?

BTW, Brian Moore uses SD Pickups stock, so do new Parkers. Ernie Ball uses Dimarzio.

 

[Metalman_666]

Re: Gibson's reasoning for running their retailers offline is now unveiled.

that's a bit of a shocker.... guitars on amazon

 

[midnite_man]

Re: Gibson's reasoning for running their retailers offline is now unveiled.

I've seen it all with Gibson. Poor binding work, finishing flaws, poor electronics, poorly cut nuts, bad fretwork, intonation problems, sloppy inlay work... these are all things I've seen on some of Gibson's "quality" medium line of products (aka the Classics, Standards). Sometimes they are small problems and some of them were just "lemons", but they do exist.
Play the guitar unplugged, I've played plenty of them that sounded horrible (not all, plenty).
Nothing is really fully handmade, and machines are good for some things such as wood cutting (for accuracy purposes). Don't expect these guitars to have fretwork done by hand. With 1000s of guitars a day, I don't think they use select premium wood on their guitars. Obviously, custom shop and historic models, there is MUCH more attention to detail and woods.

I owned a Gibson Les Paul Standard and it was a very good guitar, but I feel I lucked out having tried many others that didn't match the quality.

And yes, Gibson does produce thousands of guitars a day (look up how many models there are and you'll see it doesn't take much). With that many being produced, there is sure to be more than enough lemons in that lineup, there's not enough time to dedicate to each instrument so they get thrown together with the hopes that there won't be any problems.
Also, Bob, where do you come off saying I don't play my guitars (and how is that relevant at all to your stance? - strikes me as a poor below-the-belt way of attacking me and it was done in poor taste )? Hey, if you're happy with your Studio LP, that's all that matters :fing2:
If you like Gibson and you still support their instruments and believe that they're superior to everything else out there, then go right ahead... I'm not going to point a gun at your head
P.S. For the record, I never mentioned that LP copies are better than actual Gibsons (Tokai, Epiphone, Agile etc. aren't going to be better). Although, there are higher end LP inspired guitars that blow away the Les Paul IMHO... check out PRS' Singlecut series (another popular guitar) and Dave Thomas McNaught will blow your mind.

I'm sorry you took offense to the notion of "playng that guitar." If you've been with this forum very long, you've read that one a hundred times at least. That was only meant as a closing blurb, not a low blow....and I have no reason to ignore anybody. I wasn't responding to you alone.
Also, I never said anything about superiority. I said that if you want the sound of a Les Paul, you'll have to play a Les Paul to get it. If you want the sound of an Epi Les Paul, you'll have to play one to hear that. Same goes for a Strat, 335, Martin, Taylor, etc. It's all relative.
And Chris, in your final paragraph you contradict yourself by first stating you never said copies were better and then in the next sentence you say there are "higher end LP inspired guitars that blow away the Les Paul IMHO." Does "inspired" mean the same thing as "copied" in the context of that statement. Interesting play with words there....lol. Even PRS copies Gibson.
You say you've seen it all when it comes to Gibbys....that's pretty amazing for a young man of 20. You're a lucky man to have been bestowed so much knowledge at such a young age.
I can see where my opinion, and posts, has possibly ruffled some feathers so I'll make this one my last in this thread. I'll say that I don't believe that there are more bad Gibsons than good ones out there, as a notion that many here try to pass along. If that were the case they wouldn't be selling very many guitars at all, now would they? There are 10 people out there to every 1 that will probably agree that Gibson makes great guitars. And there are lots of professional musicians who play Gibson by choice, and not because of an endorsement that provides them with free gear.

Best regards
....Bob

 

[midnite_man]

Re: Gibson's reasoning for running their retailers offline is now unveiled.

Sorry to hijack this response...but just wondering...if SD makes such great pickups, couldn't companies reverse engineer them? I mean, really, most stock pickups are not so good- even on the LP Customs. Why charge so much and not have the best pickups that could be on there? Why do some people buy $3k LPs and then have to spend another $175 for great pickups? It isnt just Gibson, Fender does it too, so do many companies. Why do many of them skimp on pickups? If high-end companies make great guitars, how come they can't get pickups right?

BTW, Brian Moore uses SD Pickups stock, so do new Parkers. Ernie Ball uses Dimarzio.

Good question....and one I've asked myself many times, too!
...Bob
p.s. oops, I said I wasn't going to post anymore....didn't I....lol

 

[Robert S.]

Re: Gibson's reasoning for running their retailers offline is now unveiled.

Funny stuff but I don't get all the energy behind these replys. If I could only figure out who some of you are trying to convince that Gibson isn't worth buying. Are you trying to convince me, or are you trying to convince yourselves?

Price is irrelivant. If you don't like what Gibson charges, don't buy them. Believe it or not Gibson sells quite a few guitars and the market sets the price. The same goes for PRS, Mesa or anything else you buy. Currently I think milk is over-priced but we drink it so I buy it. If enough people stopped drinking milk the price would either come down or milk production would go away. Since Gibson isn't dropping prices drastically and they are showing a profit I guess enough people disagree with the price issue to make Gibson a viable company.

As for quality control, I just don't see the vast amount of stinkers out there that some seem to run into. As someone that handles a fair amout of instruments both new and used coming across my bench for work I notice no difference in the amount of factory fluff between Gibson and any other maker. Closer to the truth is that laquer guitars with mahogany necks tend to need more attention. We fired up the AC this week because we had hot and humid weather receintly and all my necks moved but none more than my Gibbys. Its the nature of the beast and its something that has to be dealt with if you like the tone of mahogany and laquer. Once I learned to "read" a guitar and evaluate its needs I saw that the vast majority of new instruments, new on the shelf need minor adjustments and not major work. Give me a 5/16" socket and a small screw driver and I can make the vast majority of new Gibbys play like a dream in a couple of minutes.

Now I'm not saying everyone should go out and buy a Gibson. There are alot of nice guitars out there in all sorts of price ranges. there are even guitars that look alot like a LP for no more than paper route money. Find the guitar that suits your needs in price and tone and be happy with it.

For me it's all about tone and nothing sounds like a Gibson LP, period. Thats the tone I like and price or perceived quality has nothing to do with it. Whether Im buying PRS, Gibson, Fender, Ibanez or playing my one of one Conklin it's about tone, not money.

I can understand passion about tone and passion for your music. Getting passionate about a piece of wood and how many pieces of paper it takes in trade to get it makes no sense to me. Telling me that I shouldn't play a Gibson is like me telling you not to kiss your wife because their are prettier women out their that are less expensive.

Gimmee a break......

 

[Mincer]

Re: Gibson's reasoning for running their retailers offline is now unveiled.

For many people, price *is* relevant when choosing a guitar. Many of us can only afford to buy 1 high-end guitar, some of us can never do even that.
They may only be 'pieces of paper' to you, but certainly not to the pro players I know.

 

[Robert S.]

Re: Gibson's reasoning for running their retailers offline is now unveiled.

Many things in life are too expensive for me to buy but I don't say they suck because I can't afford them.

If you put away $50 a week you can have a LP in 9 months. For $10 a week you can have a LP in just over 3 years that will last you a lifetime. That doesn't seem too harsh. And thats a new Std, you can get used Studios much cheaper.

 

[chcjunior]

Re: Gibson's reasoning for running their retailers offline is now unveiled.

Many things in life are too expensive for me to buy but I don't say they suck because I can't afford them.

My issue with the Gibson Les Paul Standard isn't affordability per se....it's my determination that the quality I'm getting isn't worth the price they're charging. As you pointed out, Gibson will charge what the market will bear.
However, I'm not paying what they're asking.

Note I dig my SG Special. For the dollar it was a great deal.