Good two channel BOGNER for high gain?

[papersoul]

Is my only choice the Shiva? Can it get great heavy rock tones? I tend to like thick, smooth high gain that still has the ability to get aggressive. Lately I have been leaning toward two channel amps and just using a boost for leads. For variety, I just use my volume knob or the amp's gain. Plus, I am not dragging a $2000+ amp into a local club, LOL.

I see used Shivas for about $1400 and I try not to break $1500 when buying amps.

Thoughts?

Other amps under consideration are the H&K Duotone, Mesa Stiletto Duece Series II, and Brunetti Pirata 141 and any other I can think up!

From reviews I have read, with the mod boost the Shiva can do modern heavy tones, but not metal. If it can get into Tool, A Perfcet Circle, Fuel, Rage Against the Machine, Zakk Wylde tones I am in! I would use a good boost for leads. So, I just need the amp to deliver the great clean and thick gain.

 

[GnR_Guy]

Re: Good two channel BOGNER for high gain?

Best high gain two channel bogner is the uberschall hands down. However good luck finding it for under $1500 even used. My suggestion and I know I will be looked down on for this but check out Madison amps. Really nice two channel head for under a grand. Just watch out for the duct tape

 

[papersoul]

Re: Good two channel BOGNER for high gain?

The new Mesa Stiletto Series II is supposed to be great! Time to fine one to play!

 

[Hot _Grits]

Re: Good two channel BOGNER for high gain?

The uberschall is the modern metal amp of the range. That thing will make you sh*t your pants. It's in an entirely different league to the stiletto and duotone. But it doesn't do classic rock amazingly well, so it'd be fine for Fuel and Tool but not so great for RATM.

Seeing as you like Zakk and Rage, try a Splawn quick rod. That'll do a great lower gain 800 thing like Morello, as well as the Zakk thing without an od, and head into super high gain territory as well.

 

[pstarove]

Re: Good two channel BOGNER for high gain?

Shiva is wonderful, it's not as high gain as a Mesa Boogie Rectifier, but it's way more organic sounding. Listen to Jerry Cantrell's "Degradation Trip" and "Boggy Depot": it's one of the best sounds I've heard.

 

[Bludave]

Re: Good two channel BOGNER for high gain?

I own a Shiva and IMHO it really doesn't have the right kind of gain for metal. I am more of a blues blues/rock kind of player and the Shiva suits this very well. For High gain I would look at the Extacy or the Ubershell. The Extacy is a 3 channel amp and it can get a lot of classic sounds and beyond. Don't get me wrong the Shiva is a great amp and with the right pedal it may get you where you want to go. The cleans on the Shiva are as good as anything I have ever played through, the drive channel is very articulate, I just don't feel that THE gain is right for high gain or metal!

 

[RockStarNick]

Re: Good two channel BOGNER for high gain?

Shiva = Classic Rock tones, a la modded JCM 800

XTC = All across the board rock tones, from clean to plexi to modded JCM800

The ubershchall is great for metal.

I mean, when you say heavy, how HEAVY do you mean?

 

[papersoul]

Re: Good two channel BOGNER for high gain?

Played an uberschall along with some other top end amps like VHT, etc and thought it was a bit on the fizzy side like some Rectifiers. I actually preferred some Rectifiers to the uberschall as I did with VHT.

I am a huge fan of Jerry Cantrell as mentioned and love his tone. I do not do much metal and my switchblade can give me metal if I need it, heck i was playing Pantera on my Switchblade the other day. Our band is more like Breaking Benjamin tones.....but some of my favorite modern rock tones would be Cantrell, Rage, Carl Bell of Fuel, Billy Howerdell and guys in that realm.....not thrash or pure metal.

Keep in mind, I am fine using a boost for leads!

I know some guys who are big boutique amp guys that gig with the new Mesa Stiletto so it must be decent!

 

[pstarove]

Re: Good two channel BOGNER for high gain?

Papersoul, so you have just answered your own question: Shiva will be fine for you. And for what it lacks at times you may use a pedal.

 

[OlinMusic]

Re: Good two channel BOGNER for high gain?

I own a Shiva, and I can tell you this - most people I know who want the kinda gain you described are a bit frustrated with the Shiva.

Then again, these people CONTINUE to own the amp. Some of them are FAMOUS players. It does respond well to several gain pedals on the market. I can tell you the Xotic RC Booster will give you some juicy gain, the Menatone Howie set high gain for the clean channel, or as a boost/gain for the Gain channel will work well.

All in all, the BEST pairing with the Shiva is the Fulltone Fulldrive 2 Mosfet. You can get get some great smooth gain. I can also HIGHLY recommend the TC ELEC G MAJOR and BBE SONIC MAXIM in the loop to help EQ and add some delay, etc to your gain tone. A good compressor can work as well.

Still, I wouldn't recommend it for the high gain sounds you described unless you try it first.

I can tell you something very frustrating as a Shiva owner is that there aren't very accurate or good sound samples out there. I don't think my live work or recordings sound too much like the ones online, to my own pleasure.

The clean channel is to die for! Best channel switcher I ever played. Works live and in studio for everything from Hard Rock to R&B.

 

[papersoul]

Re: Good two channel BOGNER for high gain?

Maybe then for higher gain I'd be better with something like the H&K Duotone which from all reports is thick and hotter in the gain department.

Man, I was close to buying a Mesa Mark IV today. mg: Those sound nice but the tweaking! Makes me think of a Road King.

I don't want to rely on a pedal to get the rhythm tone I desire. I would do it for lead however.

Anyone know how the Shiva would compare in gain and tone to the H&K Duotone, first version Triamp and Mesa Stiletto Series II?

 

[Hot _Grits]

Re: Good two channel BOGNER for high gain?

Maybe then for higher gain I'd be better with something like the H&K Duotone which from all reports is thick and hotter in the gain department.

Man, I was close to buying a Mesa Mark IV today. mg: Those sound nice but the tweaking! Makes me think of a Road King.

I don't want to rely on a pedal to get the rhythm tone I desire. I would do it for lead however.

Anyone know how the Shiva would compare in gain and tone to the H&K Duotone, first version Triamp and Mesa Stiletto Series II?

I tried a duotone that was supplied as backline for an MTV show I played on a few months ago. It was an absolute pooch. The switchblade is a much better amp.

 

[papersoul]

Re: Good two channel BOGNER for high gain?

I tried a duotone that was supplied as backline for an MTV show I played on a few months ago. It was an absolute pooch. The switchblade is a much better amp.

It gets confusing buying an amp because everyone I know who owns a Triamp Mark II and Switchblade says the Triamp is the better, warmer, rounder amp. Maybe I'll skip my idea and go back to the 3-4 channel monster head! I seem to get the most enjoyment out of huge bang for the buck heads and less boredom. Hehehe

I think I may buy a Mesa Road King or Roadster and if it fails my test......I'll get a used Triamp Mark II. I don't know of many other monster multi channel heads in my price range....$2000 or less on the used market.

I can't think of any

 

[Hot _Grits]

Re: Good two channel BOGNER for high gain?

All I can tell you is my own experiences, which is that every H&K I've tried apart from the switchblade sounded very average to me.

The roadster is a very cool amp. That's what I'd probably buy if I needed to cover some tonal ground and was allowed only one head.

but I have to say that the more channels an amp has the less ikely any one of them will be killer. The more junk inside an amp, the weenier the tone. It's that simple.

To give you an example: 65 amps experimented with putting channel switching into their london amp, so you can switch between the AC15 and marshall 18watt channels on the fly. they found that the very presence of the switching circuitry messed with the tone, so they left it out. They know what everyone with ears and experience with amps knows: every little thing counts, and the more you try and do the less you're likely to hit the mark.

Are you keeping the switchblade? -if so, a shiva and a switchblade together would be a killer rig. Get one of those tonebone switchers so you can use one cab...

 

[papersoul]

Re: Good two channel BOGNER for high gain?

I hear ya bro....but do you really thikn multiple channels equals weanie tone? I have seen countless acts use the Triamp, Road king, multi channel Diezels live with killer tone to die for. I would think technology has come far enough to give us our cake and eat it too! LOL.

I have no desire to ever take more than one amp to a gig so I go for best bang for the buck, ya know?

Most guys I know who own the Road King or Roadster say it sounds as good or better than any two channel Mesa they owned in the past.

I am not qoubting your thoughts...trust me...most people say just what you said but do you thin the average person notices those difference or is that for the super sensitive among us? Those with super hearing or feel?

For me, I can't think of the ultimate two channel head. All of the amps I have been thinking of with stellar clean and high gain always end up being a multi channel monster.

The new Stiletto Series II is supposed to be killer and I may have to try one soon! That would be nice because it would mesh well with our other guitarists more scooped Diezel/Dual Rectifier tone.

 

[Hot _Grits]

Re: Good two channel BOGNER for high gain?

Well, some of the better companies are making very good multi-channel amps nowadays, for sure.

But I'm also sure that if you took whatever amp you liked and pulled out everything extra except the one channel you liked best it'd sound better. It's not that the amp sounds bad in the first place, it's just that you'd be surprised at how much more open and musical sounding simpler circuits are. A one channel Diezel would kill a four channel diezel every time.

The question is whether you can live with simplicity. I like older-style amps, never use effects loops and will happily take two heads to a gig, so I can.

 

[papersoul]

Re: Good two channel BOGNER for high gain?

How do you run delay? In front of the amp?

well, if I went with a two channel with less options and good clean, Splawn comes to mind as well. We are a very heavy modern band and the other guitarist does go for the Recto sound....

but I like versatility because I never know how I'll feel from night to night jamming at home or with friends.

 

[Hot _Grits]

Re: Good two channel BOGNER for high gain?

Yep, in front. All the guys whose sounds I like did it that way, including Ed in the early days.

But don't you own a switchblade as well?

or are you going down to one amp?

-The splawn would be a great choice, by the way.

 

[papersoul]

Re: Good two channel BOGNER for high gain?

Yes, I have a Switchblade.

However, I have a desire for a pure tube head.....just need to find the right one.

I heard horror stories of the Roadster having loud popping issues with the switching and terrible reverb and loop. Could just be opinion.

 

[anewdefguitarist]

Re: Good two channel BOGNER for high gain?

Our band is more like Breaking Benjamin tones.....but some of my favorite modern rock tones would be Cantrell, Rage, Carl Bell of Fuel, Billy Howerdell and guys in that realm.....not thrash or pure metal.QUOTE]

well, two of they guys in my band met BB last summer and asked them what they played through and they both said randalls...

i always thought they were mesa guys but straight from the horses mouth i guess...i dont know how great that would help you with cantrell, fuel, RATM, or Zakk though.