Gretsch filtertron winding theory

[Al Heeley]

Re: Gretsch filtertron winding theory

This is not really the place to be for those technical sorts of questions. You might want to find another forum that would meet your needs better.

...And that does not mean reeling off the same barrage of questions on the Epiphone guitars forum either! Why not ask Gretsch, they made the darned filtertrons?
You're asking "What is Jangle", then it is the predominance of higher frequencies over the lower and middle ones. What makes some pickups jangly? = why do different pickups have different frequency/tonal responses?
Answer: Nature of magnets, strength of magnets, dimensions of magnetic field produced, nature and number of windings, type of wire, residual inductance and capacitance in that wire, type of pots used, use of capacitor/resistor on tone or vol pots, quality of guitar construction, shape of guitar chamber if present, density of the wood grain on the guitar body, type of material used in the pick, quality of guitar cable, settings on amplifier, amount of wax in listeners ears.

 

[walters]

Re: Gretsch filtertron winding theory

The strat polepieces are alreadymagnets. Te poles on a filtertron are screws touching a larger alnico magnet connected to the baseplate.

What does the do different? does it change the pickup frequency response? what does it do different?


the Rickenbacker toaster metal casing? what does it do?

The Filtertron metal casing? what does it do?

One thing that makes Filtertrons bright is the fact that the two coils are wired in parallel instead of on series...like they are in a standard humbucker. It's lower in output that way, but you get a brighter, clearer tone.

 

[FretFire]

Re: Gretsch filtertron winding theory

Go search the internet, many of your questions could be answered by spending some time with Google, and you'll probably find it quicker than asking a pile of questions here and waiting for responses. Research!

 

[Al Heeley]

Re: Gretsch filtertron winding theory

The strat polepieces are alreadymagnets. Te poles on a filtertron are screws touching a larger alnico magnet connected to the baseplate.

What does the do different? does it change the pickup frequency response? what does it do different?

Absolutely nothing. Just allows individual pole piece height below the string to be altered as I've already told you.

the Rickenbacker toaster metal casing? what does it do?

It houses the pickup.

The Filtertron metal casing? what does it do?

It houses the pickup.

One thing that makes Filtertrons bright is the fact that the two coils are wired in parallel instead of on series...like they are in a standard humbucker. It's lower in output that way, but you get a brighter, clearer tone.

Less windings = lower output = less residual impedance, less residual capacitance, = brighter tone as you lose less of the high end frequencies.

 

[ES350]

Re: Gretsch filtertron winding theory

Umm, either you're keyboard is defective or something else is seriously wrong here...I suspect the latter.

 

[Rev Donzo]

Re: Gretsch filtertron winding theory

• I find social situations confusing.
• I find it hard to make small talk.
• I did not enjoy imaginative story-writing at school.
• I am good at picking up details and facts.
• I find it hard to work out what other people are thinking and feeling.
• I can focus on certain things for very long periods.
• People often say I was rude even when this was not intended.
• I have unusually strong, narrow interests.
• I do certain things in an inflexible, repetitive way.
• I have always had difficulty making friends.

Does meeting all of these descriptions mean that the individual has undiagnosed Asperger's Syndrome? No, it simply means that they share characteristics with others who are classified as Asperger's patients.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Walters, I was told you suffer from a possible case of Asperger's -- I am deeply sorry if this is true-- I enjoy trying to help you -- I enjoy talking about pickups -- I don't know how to help you retain information -- I made some suggestions about record keeping and making a data base -- I simply cannot come here and answer a tone of questions each night only to be asked them again on a later date -- I wished I could do it all in the name of making you feel good and happy -- but I am sorry to say I have more important things to attend too --

If you can establish some notes and orginize a pickup knowledge folder or two -- and show me that your retaining these answer's then I can continue to answer your many-many- questions. -- But untill then I simply feel like I am "babysitting" for lack of a better word -- cause I'm so stupid!

Sorry bro,
Life is not fair and I really feel bad here -- but I need to move on
please understand..

REV.

 

[walters]

Re: Gretsch filtertron winding theory

sorry REV but i have more questions

the geometry of the coils? what kind of geometry?

How is the filtertron the magnet/pole piece configuration?

How is the rickenbacker toaster the magnet/pole piece configuration?

How is the filtertron casing?

How is the ricenbacker toaster casing?

 

[walters]

Re: Gretsch filtertron winding theory

The strat pickup doesn't have a metal casing like the rickenbacker or filtertron do these metal casing must do something to the flux,magnetic field not just housing them

What im trying to do is put a Rickenbacker toaster metal casing around the strat pickup how do i do this? because the rickenbacker metal casing is to big for the pickup what can i use over the polepieces please?

 

[Rev Donzo]

Re: Gretsch filtertron winding theory

I'm sorry too -- that I just can't go on knowing the sadisfaction you feel from having all these questions answered is only momentary -- then the craving for more answers and more questions takes over -- even if its the same questions -- ( Walters your on a Merry-Go-Round-ride-- try to stop the cycle and take a break -- it's not healthy to do this to your self--OK?

I highly suggest you -- simply take a break for a week away from thoughts of pickups-- seriously before ya really do go crazy bro! OK???

God Bless ya -- and I just prayed for your busy mind to have some peace and that you may also find a more suitable hobby to work with and enjoy.

REV.

 

[walters]

Re: Gretsch filtertron winding theory

oh man this sucks

 

[walters]

Re: Gretsch filtertron winding theory

Yes but the hard part is getting the Big filtertron or rickenback metal cover
to go over a strat pickup?

What is close to these covers?

Filtertron pickup cousin:
Stack the magnets like stacked humbuckers and then use screws and slugs instead of pole pieces and use a filtertron metal pick cover over it sound like its cousin


I need to find a Stacked humbucker that uses screws and slugs?

 

[walters]

Re: Gretsch filtertron winding theory

The thing i have a problem is the filtertron and toaster pickups look ugly with a strat guitar so im trying to find a custum pickup that is a filtertron pickup but in the same size as a strat pickup so i can fit it in my guitar. It would look like a filtertron or a toaster pickup with the Metal covers but just smaller version i just need to make them half the size to fit them in the guitar. Then my strat can have all 3 pickups either filtertron or toasters to get that twang and sound of a gretch and rickenback but with a strat body

If i buy the filtertron and toaster pickup they are big i just need to cut them to make smaller versions because i want them to look the same with the metal covers on them but just smaller version to fit normal strat body guitars be so cool.

 

[Al Heeley]

Re: Gretsch filtertron winding theory

No, no, no. This crazy scheme will not work.
You are asking 1000 wrong questions. Now you admit the filtertrons and toasters will look ugly on the strat. Well that is good progress from yesterday.
The question you need to ask is this:
"Can anyone suggest an SD pickup for strat that gives a good high end response so I can get a hjangklyu rickenbacker-like sound out of my Strat?"
However, it is not only the pickup that influences the tone, it is the entire guitar construction, the chambers, the wood, the circuitry, as well as the amp. The pup plays an important part in it but it is not something you will ever achieve by cutting up a set of filtertrons and glueing them in place in a strat pickup. Honest.

 

[Frebnedzo]

Re: Gretsch filtertron winding theory

There is an easy solution : call the custom shop and tell them you
want Filtertron in a Strat package with all the weird screws and studs
the way you want them and they can do the best they can.

It would probably cost a ton and I don't think you'd be entirely satisfied.
I don't think its possible to really get a a strat sized pickup to ever
sound the same as a full-sized HB due to the narrower focus etc.

Or put Filtertrons/Toasters on the strat, I think this would look bitchin
and you'd be in jangle heaven.

 

[walters]

Re: Gretsch filtertron winding theory

I think the only way is to really make the filtertron and toaster pickups a smaller size to fit in the strat body which would be a custom thing to do


What would come close is a Stacked humbucker in wired in series with bar magnets i guess


I think it would be really cool to have a filtertrons and a toaster pickup
smaller versions to fit in a strat with the metal covers and slugs and screw
and winded to the same frequency response these would be called Cousin pickups

I think the metal covers on the filtertron and toaster do something to the magnetic flux and field and change the frequecy response
Because its like a tele lip stick pickup it has the Metal cover to change the
pickup to be more sen. and hot
I think the metal covers ENHANCE something


The screws and slugs:::

The strat polepieces are alreadymagnets. Te poles on a filtertron are screws touching a larger alnico magnet connected to the baseplate

See the construction of the magnets/polepieces/slugs/screws

1.) The strat polepieces are the magnets

2.) The screws are the poles connected to a alnico magnet

See the difference

The filtertron uses Screws/slugs VS polepieces

THis must make a different magnetic field or strength plus different frequency response


If not if this is not true at all then i can get a "Stacked" humbucker wired in series but needs to be winding to the filtertrons windings or the toasters windings

If the Magnets are Fatter and biggering the filtertrons and toasters then why can't i get a "stronger" alnico magnets to makeup the flux in a small size magnet ?

small size magnet with a stronger alnico= Filtertron and or Toaster big mag.

 

[walters]

Re: Gretsch filtertron winding theory

I figured it out

The metal Covers= creates Resonances

 

[Al Heeley]

Re: Gretsch filtertron winding theory

Ah, but they are open at the top, so doesn't it all leak out?
I'm not convinced the metal covers do this, if anything, they will supress the magnetic field around the pole pieces and reduce the output from the strings vibrations. This has nothing to do with resonance.
People posting on another forum, when asked about tone differences between a covered humbucker and an uncovered one, report very little change in tone, maybe only a very slight supression of the high end frequencies when the metal cover is in place. That is all.
From this you would expect a strat pickup to be far brighter and 'top-endy' than a toaster or filtertron which has a metal case around it, but it is not.
From this I deduce you must be barking up the wrong tree.

Woof.

 

[walters]

Re: Gretsch filtertron winding theory

Thanks for the help

The metal Covers- add resonance and make the pickup sound more TINNINER and the pickups in a CAN sound more

It does add more high frequency i think and it makes the pickup Tinner like a "can" sound don't u think?

 

[St_Genesius]

Re: Gretsch filtertron winding theory

This is like a trainwreck. It makes me physically ill to witness each new post, yet I can't look away.

 

[Al Heeley]

Re: Gretsch filtertron winding theory

The metal Covers- add resonance and make the pickup sound more TINNINER ,

It does add more high frequency i think and it makes the pickup Tinner like a "can" sound don't u think?

Well, no, I don't. Actually.
What is resonance? Is it higher frequencies? No.
Is it singing inside a tin can? Hmm, thats the tone for me, why did I waste all that money on good humbuckers when I should have just surrounded my pickups in old bits of tin. Geez, what a fool I've been. Thanks for steering me back onto the course of righteousness, Walters.:dance:

Barkin' bleedin' mad