Guitar tone nerd faced with fact – what's in it really?

[Aceman]

Re: Guitar tone nerd faced with fact – what's in it really?

Re: Guitar tone nerd faced with fact – what's in it really?

Well, the tremolo-volume swells kill the attack, so that makes a difference...

And I'd say that was the Tele. But don't know. It could be a Les Paul depending on Amp settings, etc...The coil of that 59/Custom will put some bite on it.

But yeah - I tell people all the time that the audience does not know/care and they lose their $h!t. "How DARE you say tone doesn't matter!!!!!!"

I didn't say tone doesn't matter. I'm saying that I can take a Squier Strat, and after running it through effects, Amp, PA, and whatever jacked up speakers....Having Fralins, a Strymon, and US Custom shop axe is meaningless in any audio perceivable way except to you. I am NOT saying setting the knobs right or wrong can't crap up either...

 

[Techy Beccy]

Re: Guitar tone nerd faced with fact – what's in it really?

Re: Guitar tone nerd faced with fact – what's in it really?

I would also guess it's the telecaster!? Even though Im not familiar with the Jerry Donahue pickup. Id definitely didn't sound like a twangy tele. Vintage vibes though.

I think that recording actually sounds pretty decent! Recording with mics is really hard!
Maybe with your guitars you've found what you like.. you know what you like! ... Then your guitars start sounding pretty similar even if they're stylistically different. I think different amps make more of a difference to tone!

Yeah as far as tone goes.. its a disease.. we go down a rabbit hole of searching.. is it a waste of time!? - It's a subjective answer! Do you enjoy the rabbit hole of pickups and tones and sitting playing!? I think I really get enjoyment out of a playing with good pickups through a tube amp - its a buzz! Can other people notice if I keep stock pickups going direct - maybe some can.. probably 95% dont! I think in the end of the day, its more about knowing your gear! If you had a really crappy guitar but bonded with it .. if would have a great lo-fi vibe.. I wouldn't worry if you cant tell wich guitar youre playing.. did you have a different perception of your guitars tone in your head!?

 

[eclecticsynergy]

Re: Guitar tone nerd faced with fact – what's in it really?

Re: Guitar tone nerd faced with fact – what's in it really?

As others have said, the differences between a fairly hot Tele and a low-to-moderate output Les Paul are not very extreme sometimes. That's true even in studio recordings. Many of Jimmy Page's oldtime solos that people thought were his Les Paul actually were played on his Tele.

I like the solo, and the main body of your tone. Not so fond of the recording quality, there's an annoying slapback delay panned hard right on your guitar. Maybe a wall there in the soundspace, but to me it sounds as if probably too much effect was added at mixdown.

Thank you! I don't like the way it's so stiff. I play with very little overdrive yet the overdrive kind of rides on top of the tone, it does not blend in with the rest of the sound. It's like a hard clean sound with a little fuzzy hat on top of it. I'm over over emphasising, but maybe you get what I'm talking about. I want it more "together". More natural overdrive.

The drive is a little bit fizzy in the highs; I definitely understand what you're talking about when you say the highs don't sit together with the body of the tone. This is something you wouldn't have been aware of during the performance. A mic up close is far more sensitive to subtleties of treble than your ears, which are at a distance and facing outward.

It occurs to me that perhaps a more amplike OD might give you tone that's more cohesive, and at the same time more be responsive to the differences between guitars. The SD-1 has a nice tone profile but it also sounds fairly solid-state - this type of pedal isn't very sensitive to subtlety, either in tone or dynamics.

The Deluxe is a bright, quintessentially Fendery-sounding amp and some OD pedals work better with it than others. Generally Fenders do well with pedals that emphasize the lower mids, and often are best when the pedals' tone controls are rolled off a bit.

Matching it with the right drive pedal becomes especially important when running the amp clean, because there's no amp breakup to smooth out a pedal's raw tone. Especially since yours has no Presence control to tame the overall highs.

The other alternative might be pairing your SD-1 with either an EQ pedal or a boost pedal that lets you tailor the high end a bit.

 

[audiocheck]

Re: Guitar tone nerd faced with fact – what's in it really?

Re: Guitar tone nerd faced with fact – what's in it really?

I have not read this whole thread, but have you come to the conclusion that 90% of your tone is in your hands?

The tinkering with gear is only 10% of the equation.

Can you tell when Beck plays a Les Paul or a Strat, with your eyes closed? Can you tell that most of Page's recordings are Tele's and not Les Pauls?

 

[robo]

Re: Guitar tone nerd faced with fact – what's in it really?

Re: Guitar tone nerd faced with fact – what's in it really?

I've had the opposite experience entirely. I traded away my telecaster recently because I didn't like how it sounded in recordings compared to my Les Paul. The difference was really huge and this was under medium to high gain settings. My Eclipse (semi hollow, bolt-on maple neck, stock pickups) sounds almost identical to my Les Paul.

I didn't record live though. I'd guess the quality of the recording is to blame.

Sent from my BlackBerry using Tapatalk

Well I don't know. I've recorded in studio before (two real albums and a ton of demos) and I've never had a problem hearing the differece between the two (or my Strat or 335 for that matter). It was this live recording that made me realize that when there's too much going on soundwise (band + room + audience) at the same time – there's really hard to tell a difference even between a LP and a Tele.

Here's another song from the same album. Still hard to tell eventhough the song starts with just guitar solo, drum and bass.

IAB - Do I Move You - Live May 25th 2019

 

[Francois]

Re: Guitar tone nerd faced with fact – what's in it really?

Re: Guitar tone nerd faced with fact – what's in it really?

Here do not focus too much on pickups but on the mix.

Good pickups give you a better tone, but in a live situation the bottom line is the sound check.
Is the live recording made with ambiance mics or do you have each instruments and vocal parts miced separately ? then this could be solved.
Can you still work on the mix ?

If the guitar does not come though the mix and the mixed is finished, the problem can be tackled at the mastering : Specific frequencies can be EQ'd or compressed (or both) to have all instruments and vocals sitting well in the mix.

 

[robo]

Re: Guitar tone nerd faced with fact – what's in it really?

Re: Guitar tone nerd faced with fact – what's in it really?

Here do not focus too much on pickups but on the mix.

Good pickups give you a better tone, but in a live situation the bottom line is the sound check.
Is the live recording made with ambiance mics or do you have each instruments and vocal parts miced separately ? then this could be solved.
Can you still work on the mix ?

If the guitar does not come though the mix and the mixed is finished, the problem can be tackled at the mastering : Specific frequencies can be EQ'd or compressed (or both) to have all instruments and vocals sitting well in the mix.

Yeah we recorded both. Everything direct and room/ambience mics around the venue.

The mix is done and the album is released so this is not a matter of solving a problem – we're just discussing recorded live guitar and what that does to "tone".

And don't get me wrong, this is neither a discussion about the guitar beeing to low in the mix. The mix sounds great – I'm happy about it overall. I don't like the guitar tone and I can't hear differce between LP and the Tele. In a perfect world I would not ask for more guitar in the mix – it's just better tone.

 

[SkyMonkey]

Re: Guitar tone nerd faced with fact – what's in it really?

Re: Guitar tone nerd faced with fact – what's in it really?

I have spotify and have listened to a couple of the live tracks.

I have to say that for the most part the guitar is just in the mix and hard to single out for a tone appraisal. It sound right at the levels recorded.
The Glory Box track is not a good solo for tone discernment as the guitar is too affected to my ear for any realistic judgement.

I do not record or play in a band, but have done some pickup swapping 2 of my 4 in my guitars. They do sound distinguishably different to my ears when I practice, but mostly when comparing apples to oranges tones of H/bs and splits. The high output H/bs I have really sound quite similar if I am honest.

I have never tried a Fender Blues Deluxe, but could it be the most influential part of your live tone. The biggest difference you can make to a guitars tone is to play a different amp.

 

[robo]

Re: Guitar tone nerd faced with fact – what's in it really?

Re: Guitar tone nerd faced with fact – what's in it really?

As others have said, the differences between a fairly hot Tele and a low-to-moderate output Les Paul are not very extreme sometimes. That's true even in studio recordings. Many of Jimmy Page's oldtime solos that people thought were his Les Paul actually were played on his Tele.

I like the solo, and the main body of your tone. Not so fond of the recording quality, there's an annoying slapback delay panned hard right on your guitar. Maybe a wall there in the soundspace, but to me it sounds as if probably too much effect was added at mixdown.

The drive is a little bit fizzy in the highs; I definitely understand what you're talking about when you say the highs don't sit together with the body of the tone. This is something you wouldn't have been aware of during the performance. A mic up close is far more sensitive to subtleties of treble than your ears, which are at a distance and facing outward.

It occurs to me that perhaps a more amplike OD might give you tone that's more cohesive, and at the same time more be responsive to the differences between guitars. The SD-1 has a nice tone profile but it also sounds fairly solid-state - this type of pedal isn't very sensitive to subtlety, either in tone or dynamics.

The Deluxe is a bright, quintessentially Fendery-sounding amp and some OD pedals work better with it than others. Generally Fenders do well with pedals that emphasize the lower mids, and often are best when the pedals' tone controls are rolled off a bit.

Matching it with the right drive pedal becomes especially important when running the amp clean, because there's no amp breakup to smooth out a pedal's raw tone. Especially since yours has no Presence control to tame the overall highs.

The other alternative might be pairing your SD-1 with either an EQ pedal or a boost pedal that lets you tailor the high end a bit.

Thank you eclecticsynergy! This reply was really helpful and I really do believe you are right. I love the SD1 but I believe we may have to part ways. Everything you say above makes sense. Thanks agan!

 

[ToneFiddler]

Re: Guitar tone nerd faced with fact – what's in it really?

Re: Guitar tone nerd faced with fact – what's in it really?

Thank you eclecticsynergy! This reply was really helpful and I really do believe you are right. I love the SD1 but I believe we may have to part ways. Everything you say above makes sense. Thanks agan!

yeah, i tried to say something similiar to eclecticsynergy, but he said it way way better.
i mean i can't tell which stomp box you are using, but i can definitely hear it's solid state distortion, especially on the rhythm parts.

p.s.:
was my guess right?
track 13: lonely gal = tele?