H/H/H wiring

[Jack_TriPpEr]

Re: H/H/H wiring

No, I don't remember having the same issue with my Ibanez stock Quantum pickups.

What will solve the mystery is to be able to measure the impedance of the guitar and compare it to another but you need an extra equipment for that.

There are very good YouTube videos explaining how important is to have right amount of impedance in the guitar but it's a bit too much for my brain.

https://youtu.be/o2TLng86djM

I exclude the possibility of having a faulty pick up because the noise is on all positions of the 5-way switch.

Either my impedance is too low or too high.
I have to find out how to increase or decrease it by altering the wiring.

I downloaded and reviewed the manual for your Steinberg USB interface. It says that when you are connecting an electric guitar, you should connect it using an Unbalanced guitar cable. It says if the guitar is connected with a different type cable, the High Impedance switch will not work correctly. See 1st pic below which is 2 screenshots where the manual says this, and it gives a picture of what an Unbalanced guitar cable looks like.

Have you confirmed that the cable you are using to connect to your USB is a Unbalanced cable like what is pictured in the manual?

The 2nd pic is a screenshot from your earlier video. The end of the cable plugged into the USB unit looks bulkier than a Unbalanced cable. Almost like it is either an XLR cable? Or you attached a XLR adaptor onto the end of your Unbalanced guitar cable?

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

 

[Hank-]

Re: H/H/H wiring

I found it hard to go through all replies, it's a long thread lol

Quick question,
1. You have a Ibanez Jem UV7 guitar?
2. It was shielded from the factory with the copper tape?
3. Do you have testing probes in place of crocodile clips with you for your DMM?

I didn't see the vids, saw few Dropbox pics but not all. The uv7 diagram in the first post shows a stereo socket, if you wired the hot to the wrong lug of the socket then you would be shorting the hot to ground. As for the hum you are getting, I have gotten that before but it was not related to wiring issues in the guitar but the amplification device wasn't grounded to the wall. Connect the RP360 to the computer or an amp input, don't have to turn the amp on but make sure the amp is connect to the wall socket via a 3-prong plug, monitor the rp360 via headphones, does the hum problem persist while lowering the guitar volume. Can also be due to a bad instrument cable.

Quick advice, don't split the area58, it will require extending the white& black wires & it will hum.. Instead of that you could try some other things that you might find useful. For instance the ability to have series/parallel (dual sound) options with neck& bridge buckers via a switch will make the 2&4 positions more quackier. The superswitch can be used in conjunction with a dpdt switch to give 5 different sounds, like neck+middle in series, bridge+middle in series, all three in parallel or series & bridge +neck in series or parallel.

 

[Zaakkk]

Re: H/H/H wiring

Wow Jack!

Thank you very much for your great care to take the time, download the manual and check the details.
I can confirm that all my cables are simple mono / unbalanced / two wires only.
My very first guess was that there was something wrong with my cable so I tried with all of my 6 different cables with the same noisy result.

 

[Zaakkk]

Re: H/H/H wiring

Hi Hank!

1. I have Ibanez RG. It came with Ibanez quantum pickups and Ibanez electronic 5 way switch. I threw them all out and replace them with DiMarzio 2 x Gravity Storm, 1 x Area pickups and their super switch.
2. It was shielded from the factory with conductive black paint.
3. I have multimeter with dozen test cables with crocodile clips you can see me using them in most of my videos here.

I had no idea the UV7 diagram shows a stereo socket. Are we all blind here?
:O

Regardless if the socket shown is stereo, only two wires go to it, one is ground and the other is hot so it shouldn't be a problem if I wire it with a standard mono Jack, right?
Have you actually checked my wiring to see if I done it properly?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/fe2vwgyxegie73r/FAILED Ibanez UV7splitPP.jpg?dl=0

I can't connect the RP360 to any wall socket via real 3-prong plug because although the UK plugs have 3-prongs the 3rd one is dummy, often plastic, and it serves only as a pushing key to unlock the holes of the other two wall sockets preventing accidental electric shock.

I've checked with 6 different cables and wired the guitar twice with the same wiring but with different wires and potentiometers, just to make sure none of those used before was faulty.

Your advice not to split the DiMarzio Area58 is very wise because it sounds bad. As you mentioned, I did extended the short white & black wires in order to reach the 3PDT mini switch, but not the hum worries me, what worries me is the flat unnatural sound it has when it's split. Maybe if it is split in a different way with different wiring it will sound better, but I don't know.

I am ready to experiment further with adding DiMarzio EP1111 (4PDT) Pickup Selector Switch with 12 terminals - 3 Position (On/On/On) or a second pull push pot.

If you are willing to make a new idiot proof wiring for me, you're more than welcome.

 

[Jack_TriPpEr]

Re: H/H/H wiring

I had no idea the UV7 diagram shows a stereo socket. Are we all blind here?
:O

I reviewed the *other* diagram because you said that was the one that did what you wanted except for the noise. So, I never looked at the UV7 diagram.

I can't connect the RP360 to any wall socket via real 3-prong plug because although the UK plugs have 3-prongs the 3rd one is dummy, often plastic, and it serves only as a pushing key to unlock the holes of the other two wall sockets preventing accidental electric shock.

I recommend you look into products like the Ebtech Hum X Ground Line Voltage Filter:
https://www.amazon.com/Ebtech-Hum-G...B0002E4YI8#video-immersive-view_1595432660971

or some kind power conditioning/line conditioning power strip. Furman and Monster make some.

 

[Jack_TriPpEr]

Re: H/H/H wiring

Hi Hank!

1. I have Ibanez RG. It came with Ibanez quantum pickups and Ibanez electronic 5 way switch. I threw them all out and replace them with DiMarzio 2 x Gravity Storm, 1 x Area pickups and their super switch.
2. It was shielded from the factory with conductive black paint.
3. I have multimeter with dozen test cables with crocodile clips you can see me using them in most of my videos here.

I had no idea the UV7 diagram shows a stereo socket. Are we all blind here?
:O

Regardless if the socket shown is stereo, only two wires go to it, one is ground and the other is hot so it shouldn't be a problem if I wire it with a standard mono Jack, right?
Have you actually checked my wiring to see if I done it properly?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/fe2vwgyxegie73r/FAILED Ibanez UV7splitPP.jpg?dl=0

I can't connect the RP360 to any wall socket via real 3-prong plug because although the UK plugs have 3-prongs the 3rd one is dummy, often plastic, and it serves only as a pushing key to unlock the holes of the other two wall sockets preventing accidental electric shock.

I've checked with 6 different cables and wired the guitar twice with the same wiring but with different wires and potentiometers, just to make sure none of those used before was faulty.

Your advice not to split the DiMarzio Area58 is very wise because it sounds bad. As you mentioned, I did extended the short white & black wires in order to reach the 3PDT mini switch, but not the hum worries me, what worries me is the flat unnatural sound it has when it's split. Maybe if it is split in a different way with different wiring it will sound better, but I don't know.

I am ready to experiment further with adding DiMarzio EP1111 (4PDT) Pickup Selector Switch with 12 terminals - 3 Position (On/On/On) or a second pull push pot.

If you are willing to make a new idiot proof wiring for me, you're more than welcome.

If you haven't already, check if you reversed the wires on your output jack.

 

[Zaakkk]

Re: H/H/H wiring

Power line conditioning devices filter excess current that can cause hum and buzz in the audio signal.

Didn't I eliminate the probability of wall power supply noise issue when I powered the USB audio interface with external battery and then with power supplied only by my MakBook Pro? Both times I had only headphones plugged or using the laptop's speakers.

If the output guitar jack wires were reversed, I wouldn't have successfully tested the guitar for ground continuity while the ground crocodile was clipped outside on the guitar's jack's ground, right?
https://youtu.be/Ewl4lXWsJMI

 

[Jack_TriPpEr]

Re: H/H/H wiring

Power line conditioning devices filter excess current that can cause hum and buzz in the audio signal.

Some also handle EMI/RFI. For example, see screenshots below from this Furman product.

Didn't I eliminate the probability of wall power supply noise issue when I powered the USB audio interface with external battery and then with power supplied only by my MakBook Pro? Both times I had only headphones plugged or using the laptop's speakers.

It wasn't clear to me in that video that your computer was not being powered by connection to wall outlet. Ok.

If the output guitar jack wires were reversed, I wouldn't have successfully tested the guitar for ground continuity while the ground crocodile was clipped outside on the guitar's jack's ground, right?
https://youtu.be/Ewl4lXWsJMI

Agreed. I forgot you did that test. That's why I wrote "if you haven't already checked".

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

 

[Hank-]

Re: H/H/H wiring

Didn't I eliminate the probability of wall power supply noise issue when I powered the USB audio interface with external battery and then with power supplied only by my MakBook Pro? Both times I had only headphones plugged or using the laptop's speakers.

I feel the problem lies here. If none of the devices are connected to house's main ground, you can get buzz or hum & the effect your are getting when turning the volume. The MacBook when connected to its power supply should ground itself, following that any USB device connected to the MacBook will also get grounded by the mains ground.

There must be a wall outlet somewhere in the house that has a 3 pin socket for heavy appliances like washing machine or refrigerator. Use that socket to wall power the laptop & connect the rp360 via usb to it. This will take care of the variable hum with volume knob issues most likely if your wiring job of the guitar isn't faulty. Try it for troubleshooting purposes, if it works then you will have to get a gorunded socket installed in your room to fix the problem. My GT10 does it when it's not grounded, the zoom g1on also does the same. The only other time I had a constant noise problem like this was a badly wired wall outlet.

The original pickups might have been heavily potted so they were less susceptible to interference, the dimarzios aren't overly wax potted. Does the area58 give the loudest buzz compared to the others?
The shielding black paint usually has a screw tightening a wire to it which is soldered to a common ground point, so you get continuity between the black paint & the guitar grounds easily if it wasn't there then the the pots are doing that job when fastened in place. Also check for continuity between the gravity storms baseplate or poles with the strings, the area58 won't because it doesn't have a bare shield wire of its own.

 

[Zaakkk]

Re: H/H/H wiring

Thanks for the advice Hank.

I used external powerbank to power the USB audio interface connected to the MacBook and then the MacBook itself to power the audio interface, in order to eliminate the possibility of bad noise creating current comming from my wall sockets.

Unfortunately there are no live 3 pin wall outlets in our UK houses. We have 230V 3 pin sockets but the 3rd one is dummy, often plastic, serving as a push key to unlock the holes of the other 2 wall sockets preventing accidental shock.

Does your GT10 or ZoomG1 add noise to your signal only when you decrease the Volume, the way my DigiTech and Steinberg does it only then and have no noise when the Volume is on Max, or yours are noisy all the time because of EMF or grounding issues?

The "Volume down = Noise up" effect is equally and uniformly present on all 5 switch positions and all mini toggle swith or pull push positions. The Area58 is quiet as the Gravity Storm buckers. Dimarzio did a great job there.

As you mentioned, the shielding black paint indeed had a screwed wire grounding it to the bridge. I kept that wire and solder it to the copper shielding, even though the copper shielding is continuous between all cavities and doesn't really need it.

I also did solder grounding wires between the pots too even though when the pots are fastened in place over the copper shielding, they are grounded without extra wires needed.

I never thought to check for continuity between the gravity storms baseplate or poles with the strings, so here it is, please watch it and tell me if that's the way it should be.
https://youtu.be/AfSPMEiPLJ8

You are right about the Area58, although it has 4 wires, it doesn't have a bare shield wire of its own.

 

[Hank-]

Re: H/H/H wiring

Your continuity test is fine, not all poles will give a positive reading, there's usually one that will give the beep. Yours is fine, I should have just told you to do a continuity test between the strings & the pickup height adjustment screws, my mistake.

Anyways, I'm free now so gonna go through all the vids you posted before replying. I'll get back to you soon.

 

[Zaakkk]

Re: H/H/H wiring

I just got email from DiMarzio support.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/pcn7mtfs3g5jzmi/Screenshot_20200723-195608_Gmail.jpg?dl=0

Reply:
"The pickup continuity check you did

https://youtu.be/AfSPMEiPLJ8

shows nothing wrong, which is not unexpected. It is not unusual for the noise floor to come up when the volume control is rolled down. It is present to some degree in many guitars. One possible way to lessen the problem is to trim the pickup wires short, if you have not already done so. Excess wire length in the control compartment can act as an antenna for noise.

The pickup wiring is incorrect, unless you prefer the middle pickup to be out of phase with the neck and bridge pickups. This affects the coil splits as well. It would be better to connect the black wires from the neck and bridge pickups to the 5-way switch, with the white and bare wires grounded. The red+green wires from the neck and bridge pickups go to the toggle switch for tapping. The wiring of the middle pickup is not changed. There will be hum cancellation in positions 2 and 4 when the tap switch is engaged.

DiMarzio Inc."

Would somebody draw this wiring for me please?
I'm afraid they don't really say where exactly to connect the wires?

 

[Hank-]

Re: H/H/H wiring

Wait for sometime, I noticed something I need to check again in your vids. The tone pots lugs, the middle is or was making contact to the shield until you soldered a thin wire there to the body of the pot underneath. Is the lug to left where the wires are connected also somehow touching the shield like the middle one? I need to check again your vids of your continuity tests, to verify that, but if you have it lying around, just do a quick check & report back if you are getting continuity on that lug & the grounds.

 

[Zaakkk]

Re: H/H/H wiring

I can confirm, the two side Tone lugs are not in contact with the shielding and are not grounded.

 

[Hank-]

Re: H/H/H wiring

I can confirm, the two side Tone lugs are not in contact with the shielding and are not grounded.

Ok that was a lot of vids, I still may have missed on some.

Compared to the wiring diagram you linked on dropbox , you have wired the volume & tone pots different. Did you change anything else?
The way you have it wired now looks like 50's wiring because the tone is connecting to the middle of the volume. Also, did the tone knob not working issue get resolved? I got lost in your vids & can't seem to find the sequence properly lol

https://d2emr0qhzqfj88.cloudfront.net/s3fs-public/diagrams/UV7splitPP.pdf Thats the diagram I found on dimarzios site, it's black & white mostly, but looks like the same thing.
Second thing. the areas are out of phase with dimarzio's humbuckers, so you need the reverse the green & red on the area pickup for it to be in phase with the gravity storms. So for the area58 the green wire will be hot & connect to the switch & red will be ground.

Next, the HiZ input is actually meant for electric guitar pickups, you should not get added noise from using it compared to the other one on the interface.

So, one thing you can try is go back to modern wiring. See what that does. Before that I forgot if you mentioned earlier but do you have a good reliable extra instrument cable around with you? Try it, also tell me which brand it is. Also easier to check for continuity if you plug a cable in the socket & alligator clip the other end plug of the cable, that way you won't need long probes for the DMM.

 

[Zaakkk]

Re: H/H/H wiring

Hank,
The first time I tried this wiring diagram, I done it exactly how it is shown. Because of the "Volume Down = Noise Up" issue (making the Volume completely unusable in any other value but only on Max) I dismantle it completely and used two new pots and all new wires, even though none of the old one was found to be faulty.

The second time now I used the pull push as a tone and that's all. Nothing is changed because the pull push is completely independent device from the pot itself.
In short, nothing is changed but the pots and wires.

The tone knob not working issue was resolved by Jack. He asked me to double check my soldering and he was right, the wire underneath wasn't soldered good enough. I did it better and the Tone issue was solved.

Yes, according to DiMarzio's customer support the DiMarzio Area middle stacked humbucker is out of phase with the Gravity Storm humbuckers, so they advise me to change the 2 Gravity wires and to leave the middle the way it is.

Are you suggesting different wiring from what DiMarzio support proposed?
I will try yours or theirs regardless, I just need the wiring drawn because I can't make it out just by words.

The Hi Z (impedance) input is in no doubt definitely meant for electric guitars and obviously my DigiTech RP360 guitar processor have such circuit always engaged by deault.

Right now, my guitar's impedance is either (most likely) too low or (unlikely) too high.

The noise disappears when I use the USB audio interface without engaging the High Z circuit.

So I am more than ready to try the so called modern wiring and see what that does, I just need wiring schematics graphic that I can follow.

I have extra four UK "No Bull" (lifetime guaranteed) cables + one Ibanez that came from the factory with the guitar. So all together I have and tried 6 cables as they were the first to be accused of making the noise

If you have the time, please draw a wiring graphic for me, regardless if it is the proposed by DiMarzio or your own.

Thanks.

 

[Hank-]

Ok, modern wiring involves connecting the tone control to the volume pot on the left lug(non-grounded one), the same place where the selector switch hot gets connected, the output jack hot is connected to the middle alone. In your new wiring that you have done, you have connected the tone to the middle lug of the volume pot, the same place where the output jack wire is connected. This is 50s wiring and is used mostly when you want to avoid having to using a treble bleed cap on the volume pot. So all you need to do to reverse the above is move that wires from the tone pot going to volume pot to a left lug.

I can give you a new wiring with a more different scheme than just coil splits because you have an area58 in the middle & a simple 4pdt & normal 5way switch would have been sufficient to split the pickups. So the new scheme will have lot of options but it will involve a lot of wiring connections for the 5way super switch alone, rest is easy.

I need to know what kind of 4PDT switch you have with you, I'm adding a image to explain that.



Here's the way the 5way super switch & a DPDT(push pull) can be used to get different combinations.


Now as far as the 4PDT switch, if it were a simple ON/ON switch, you could use it to toggle series/parallel mode for the neck & bridge humbuckers easily, since yours is a ON/ON/ON toggle I'll have to check if I can get it to do the same.

Basically, if you had two push/pull pots, & one 4PDT ON/ON toggle then you could have made use of some of the S1 switching diagrams for strats to get various pickup combos & the push/pulls for dual sounds.

Also here's a dimarzio basic dual sound wiring using push/pulls for HSH setup. This is for when using an area series or virtual vintage series middle pickup, so you can see that the green & red are reversed while connecting it. This one utilizes modern wiring as well.

 

[Zaakkk]

Hank,
On your question.
"I need to know what kind of 4PDT switch you have with you, I'm adding a image to explain that."

I have:
Mini toggle switch (3PDT) with 9 terminals - 2 Positions (On/On)
and
DiMarzio EP1111 (4PDT) Pickup Selector Switch with 12 terminals - 3 Position (On/On/On)

I did the wiring using the 3PDT switch.

I am afraid I am unable to understand the logic behind the diagrams, I can just follow them.
My brain works much better with visual information so if you can draw a diagram I would be able to do it.
Now I can just stare and feel stupid.

For now I just tried to follow DiMarzio's advise...

...and I have no idea if the following is what they advised me for:



PSD:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/4anbqw48q9...0copy.psd?dl=0

Thanks.

 

[Zaakkk]

Umm, anybody?
Is this a good wiring to give it a try?

:feedback:

 

[Jack_TriPpEr]

Umm, anybody?
Is this a good wiring to give it a try?

:feedback:

My recommendation would be to first try and find the cause of the noise you notice when using High Z on your USB interface and when you plug your guitar into the Digitech RP360. You said that that noise was present in all pickup positions, so the middle pickup being out of phase with the 2 humbuckers cannot be the cause of that noise. I don't believe trying a different wiring scheme is going to be the answer to that noise problem.