Has Anyone Half-Aired Anything Other Than A Tone Zone?

[SweetClyde99]

I just half-aired a Tone Zone a week ago, and I really like what it did for that pickup in that guitar. I was just curious if anyone has tried doing the same to any other pickups they found to be too thick and high output. The JB and Custom Custom seem like they might be good candidates from Seymour’s catalog.

 

[eclecticsynergy]

Never half-aired a Custom Custom, but the Custom wind with an A3 is very nice indeed.
Puts its output - and character - in pretty much the hot-PAF category.

FWIW, players were putting electrical tape on their mags for decades before Larry DiMarzio patented airing.

 

[Kirk Dahnke]

I just half-aired a Tone Zone a week ago, and I really like what it did for that pickup in that guitar. I was just curious if anyone has tried doing the same to any other pickups they found to be too thick and high output. The JB and Custom Custom seem like they might be good candidates from Seymour’s catalog.

I got a free P90 sized TZ. I’m thinking of trying it in the neck of a LP copy. I have 2 P90 guitars already and want to go with a heavy doom sound that uses vintage amps. What does “half aired” mean in context to the TZ? And would it even work in the P90 version? I’m clueless about this stuff and will be taking it to a tech, so not looking to experiment. Trying to get it close to a Super Distortion. The P90 version already is ceramic.

 

[jeremy]

i havent opened up a p90 version so not sure whats in there

 

[Rex_Rocker]

I got a free P90 sized TZ. I’m thinking of trying it in the neck of a LP copy. I have 2 P90 guitars already and want to go with a heavy doom sound that uses vintage amps. What does “half aired” mean in context to the TZ? And would it even work in the P90 version? I’m clueless about this stuff and will be taking it to a tech, so not looking to experiment. Trying to get it close to a Super Distortion. The P90 version already is ceramic.

It means removing the keeper bar and adding something non-magnetic as a spacer so that the magnet only touches one of the coils' polepieces.

What it does is it reduces the output of one of the coils, and it decreases the inductance because there's less metal in the pickup. So I suppose what happens is the pickup becomes slightly brighter, lower output, and has a different feel. In theory. I've never done it myself.

 

[jeremy]

dimarzio usually uses little rubber rings around the stud poles, at least on the pups ive seen. ive unaired a 36th anniversary bridge pup and swapped in an a2 magnet. and yes, an a3 in the custom is a great pup for sure

 

[Rex_Rocker]

dimarzio usually uses little rubber rings around the stud poles, at least on the pups ive seen. ive unaired a 36th anniversary bridge pup and swapped in an a2 magnet. and yes, an a3 in the custom is a great pup for sure

To unair the pickup, do you need to swap out the slugs? I think the slugs they use for the airbuckers are different than standard slugs, no?

 

[ehdwuld]

On my White MaxCheer half rails
I swapped the ceramic magnets for alnico 2 in the neck and alnico 5 in the bridge

These alnico magnets were 1/8 inch (3 mm) thinner than the ceramic magnets they replaced

I used a small section of string trimmer line to wedge in place to hold them still
Then, because the alnico were not as thick as the ceramic, I added a strip of cardboard box to fill that t in

I haven't seen where it makes any difference in volume when I switched between the rails or screw poles

 

[Sam SG]

I got a free P90 sized TZ. I’m thinking of trying it in the neck of a LP copy. I have 2 P90 guitars already and want to go with a heavy doom sound that uses vintage amps. What does “half aired” mean in context to the TZ? And would it even work in the P90 version? I’m clueless about this stuff and will be taking it to a tech, so not looking to experiment. Trying to get it close to a Super Distortion. The P90 version already is ceramic.

I dunno either.
But as a teenager in the 90s this is what Air'ed meant.

 

[jeremy]

To unair the pickup, do you need to swap out the slugs? I think the slugs they use for the airbuckers are different than standard slugs, no?

no, you remove the little rubber rings

 

[Rex_Rocker]

no, you remove the little rubber rings

And add a keeper bar, I assume, right? Isn't it hard to find keeper bars that match DiMarzio string spacing? Or did you grab it off a donor pickup?

 

[ehdwuld]

And add a keeper bar, I assume, right? Isn't it hard to find keeper bars that match DiMarzio string spacing? Or did you grab it off a donor pickup?

I would think any ferrous material between the magnet and touching the poles should work

I'm measuring coat hanger wire now

Edit:

My wire hanger is 0.075 inches (2 mm)
The space is .095 between my ceramic MaxCheer pickups with the alnico pickups

I may try it later

 

[Kirk Dahnke]

It means removing the keeper bar and adding something non-magnetic as a spacer so that the magnet only touches one of the coils' polepieces.

What it does is it reduces the output of one of the coils, and it decreases the inductance because there's less metal in the pickup. So I suppose what happens is the pickup becomes slightly brighter, lower output, and has a different feel. In theory. I've never done it myself.

Thank you. People have told me that a TZ will be far too muddy in the neck of a LP. So I’m trying to mod it as I have no other use for it except in the neck. I know it would be easier to use a different pickup, but I’m thinking that since it’s a Dimarzio it’s still a good pickup to use even modded. I wonder if I removed one side of the pole pieces might work? Or Duncan recommends putting a .047 cap in series to the tone pot? Not sure if that would do it. Some have said that using a .01uf would be better. I have a nice .015uf cap. Should I try that? I’ve heard a Gold Top with a P90 sized Super Distortion in the neck, and that’s what I’m looking for. However this is an $200 LPC copy in black, so I’m guessing there’s not the thick maple cap. Any thoughts that would change the bass eq curve enough to get close?
Thanks again!

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Thank you. People have told me that a TZ will be far too muddy in the neck of a LP. So I’m trying to mod it as I have no other use for it except in the neck. I know it would be easier to use a different pickup, but I’m thinking that since it’s a Dimarzio it’s still a good pickup to use even modded. I wonder if I removed one side of the pole pieces might work? Or Duncan recommends putting a .047 cap in series to the tone pot? Not sure if that would do it. Some have said that using a .01uf would be better. I have a nice .015uf cap. Should I try that? I’ve heard a Gold Top with a P90 sized Super Distortion in the neck, and that’s what I’m looking for. However this is an $200 LPC copy in black, so I’m guessing there’s not the thick maple cap. Any thoughts that would change the bass eq curve enough to get close?
Thanks again!

Yeah, but it depends what kinda vibe you're going for. If you're going for a set that's balanced, I don't think the TZ would work unless you have something extra hot and dark in the bridge. Even then, be prepared to have a very "unique"-sounding guitar that requires you to adjust your amp settings if you have it setup for more "normal"-sounding ones. If you're going for an intentional mismatch, and you're playing, I dunno, fuzzed out drone-y stuff or something where extra fat, dark, and hot is desirable, then yeah.

Take this for what it is, though. I have never tried a TZ in the neck. I have tried a JB, though, which has similar DCR and inductance, and I found that too dark, round, and kinda muddy, so I'm just assuming.

I think you can mod the hell out of the TZ, but maybe you can also run it in parallel or split for whenever you want some clarity. I bet split in the neck would sound nice.

 

[Kirk Dahnke]

Yeah, but it depends what kinda vibe you're going for. If you're going for a set that's balanced, I don't think the TZ would work unless you have something extra hot and dark in the bridge. Even then, be prepared to have a very "unique"-sounding guitar that requires you to adjust your amp settings if you have it setup for more "normal"-sounding ones. If you're going for an intentional mismatch, and you're playing, I dunno, fuzzed out drone-y stuff or something where extra fat, dark, and hot is desirable, then yeah.

Take this for what it is, though. I have never tried a TZ in the neck. I have tried a JB, though, which has similar DCR and inductance, and I found that too dark, round, and kinda muddy, so I'm just assuming.

I think you can mod the hell out of the TZ, but maybe you can also run it in parallel or split for whenever you want some clarity. I bet split in the neck would sound nice.

That’s exactly what I want it for. I end up rarely actually using the neck in a guitar when playing. I’m always trying to match, but the reality is I don’t use it. So two completely different sounds is perfect. And yeah, it’s for heavy drone doom. I already have a bridge P90 that I’m for sure using, so putting the TZ in the bridge isn’t happening. What do you think changing the magnet to a rough cast A4 would do with the hot wiring? I’ve noticed that a couple boutique builders using A4s because after measuring, the 50s Gibson magnets are closer to the modern era A4s these days. But of course they aren’t using hot winds. The P90 sized TZ is changed to ceramic because Dimarzio thinks it gets closer to the regular TZ. So using Alcinos may make it worse? I’m not afraid of trying anything, and it’s fun trying to come up with something that will work. Hopefully I’m not bothering you about it and will stop asking questions if I am. You just seem to have some answers I’m looking for. Thank you!

 

[freefrog]

I wonder if I removed one side of the pole pieces might work? Or Duncan recommends putting a .047 cap in series to the tone pot? Not sure if that would do it. Some have said that using a .01uf would be better. I have a nice .015uf cap. Should I try that?

Maybe you remember that I've already replied in details to these questions in order to help you... ;-)

Anyway and to recall something which is not a subjective statement but a simple electrical fact...

To do their job efficiently, hi-pass / bass-cut series caps typically need to be of a ten times lower value than standard tone caps. Rickenbacker used series caps of .0047µ (4.7nF) and not .047. The G&L PTB circuit relies on a series cap of 2.2nF (.0022µ) and not .022µ... 10nF is already high for that and a ten times higher .1µ would cut exactly... zero bass.

A .015µ / 15nF series cap should lower the output of 2.5dB approximatively around 82hz (lowest E note of a normally tuned guitar). Above 200hz, it shouldn't change no more the response of the pickup.

 

[Kirk Dahnke]

Maybe you remember that I've already replied in details to these questions in order to help you... ;-)

Anyway and to recall something which is not a subjective statement but a simple electrical fact...

To do their job efficiently, hi-pass / bass-cut series caps typically need to be of a ten times lower value than standard tone caps. Rickenbacker used series caps of .0047µ (4.7nF) and not .047. The G&L PTB circuit relies on a series cap of 2.2nF (.0022µ) and not .022µ... 10nF is already high for that and a ten times higher .1µ would cut exactly... zero bass.

A .015µ / 15nF series cap should lower the output of 2.5dB approximatively around 82hz (lowest E note of a normally tuned guitar). Above 200hz, it shouldn't change no more the response of the pickup.

Oh yes! You did. I’m getting ready to drop the guitar off and for some reason I couldn’t locate your response. I do just want a 3 position circuit with the neck TZ being permanently modded, no push-pulls, etc. So I’m not educated. Just want a simple solution to make the TZ as close to a P90 sized Super Distortion and just leave it. This is a $200 guitar, with a free pickup, that will be tuned to C Standard permanently. The .047 cap came into play because of a published mod by Duncan, so I was thinking a .015 cap in series would help clean up the muddiness further.

Thank you so much brother for your help!

 

[Kirk Dahnke]

It means removing the keeper bar and adding something non-magnetic as a spacer so that the magnet only touches one of the coils' polepieces.

What it does is it reduces the output of one of the coils, and it decreases the inductance because there's less metal in the pickup. So I suppose what happens is the pickup becomes slightly brighter, lower output, and has a different feel. In theory. I've never done it myself.

Would this be similar at all to the mod of removing one side of the pole pieces? I did it to a cheap humbucker and it did help, although not much could save that pickup and it’s gone on to its great reward. I’ve noticed that removing one side of the pole pieces to the neck pickup is now called the “Jimmy Page mod”. Huge fan and never heard that one before, but in recent pictures he has done it. Works great for the clean parts of “Ramble On”. It’s in the “It Might Get Loud” movie as well.

 

[freefrog]

Removing screw poles should have a much more noticeable effect than simply airing a humbucker, FWIW. The good thing with the P90 TZ is that it includes two rows of screw poles susceptible to be removed or not... and unless my old brain betrays me, there's not enough room under the coils of this model to "air" it, anyway: there's a double thick narrow ceramic bar underneath and screw poles touch it directly...

 

[jeremy]

good info, as i said, i havent opened up a p90 version. makese sense theyd use a taller, narrower magnet