having strange guitar problem

[megalo]

Ok heres the problem
I just had my guitar setup and I plugged it in and she sounded great so far.
I slapped on my metal zone and started plugging away and noticed this problem. Its much more noticable with gain cranked. Say i pick the E note(9thfret) or F just above and just let the note sustain as long as it goes it sounds just fine. Now if i pick the E note again and hammer on the F one fret up i get this god awefull clashing oscillating noise.
From what i can see is that when i pick the first note its making some other "open" string resonate and thats clashing with the hammer on note. if i pick the F note right after you cant really hear it happening until the sustain starts dieing off.
This only happens with certain notes that have had a note played just before it either 1 or 2 frets lower. If i hear this sound and i mute any open strings the sound returns to normal. Is there some way i can fix or prevent this? It sounds like **** :smack: .
When i play clean you can kinda notice it unless i hold the note and hit the prior note and there are open strings not muted and even then is fainter but cranked its amplified alot. I did notice something prior to getting it setup but wasnt really sure what it was at the time and was hoping the setup would make it "go away" but no luck.

J


J

 

[seafoamer]

Re: having strange guitar problem

I can't really smell whatcha steppin' in.
Did u point it out to the cat who did the setup?
What kind of gtr we talking about here?
Is the overtone always the same note?

 

[megalo]

Re: having strange guitar problem

well i kinda only noticed it recently and wasnt sure what it was, I thought that getting it setup might fix it. I wasnt able to talk to the person who did the setup he wasnt there when i dropped it off it off. Its an Ephiphone g400 SG Copy mahogany. It appears to happen when the first note is an E or a D and if i hit that note on a single string with the others open if i hammer on within the next 3 frets above on that same string it seems to happen. seems more noticable on lighter stings and more pronounced higher up the neck near and after 12th fret. I just recorded some samples clean and distored so you can listen, i willpost url in a minute.

J

 

[megalo]

Re: having strange guitar problem

ok first one is distored with gain that it really sticks out bad



oh yea i play the first 2 notes normal then the bad hammer on, and then bad hammer on and quick mute of open strings

 

[gordon_39422]

Re: having strange guitar problem

Just from this end of the observation , it seems like your setup might need adjustind... Intsonation slightly out. Did YOU play it when you picked it up from the luthier? Whomever does the adjustment does so with HIS experience and technique..... If you press frets heavier, it will be noticeable, especially near the 12th fret.......

Hope this helped!

 

[megalo]

Re: having strange guitar problem

ok afteron further inspection its now seems this happens anytime i hammer on a notes just after EADGB( between 7th and 15th frets mostly) and there are unfretted or unmutedopen strings.
makes sense somewhat but i dunno how to stop it! i am just starting to get into lead so i never really noticed it before and now i have new pickups, new strings and now it seems much more obvious. : /

 

[megalo]

Re: having strange guitar problem

it happens all over the guitar but it is amplified closer around 12th fret

 

[seafoamer]

Re: having strange guitar problem

Hard to tell with those dirty clips. When u play w/ distortion, there is a tendency for overtones to ring out (especially when sustaining notes) if u don't establish some sort of righthand technique that quiets the string that you are not playing.

 

[gordon_39422]

Re: having strange guitar problem

put THAT guitar down, and grab another.....

If the problem persists with the next guitar, there was nothing wrong with the 1st axe!!!


LOL!!!!!!!!!!

 

[megalo]

Re: having strange guitar problem

yes i can palm mute but honestly i shouldnt have to constantly mute strings that are not even being struck. Besides this problem when im playing quickly over those notes or not holding sustain after a hammer on after the culprit notes it sounds fine. I checked the intonation with my tuner and it seems close enough

ok hers a clean clip

 

[megalo]

Re: having strange guitar problem

also it almost seems that the noise is coming from more than one open string, maybe all open strings possibly together. Is not a hand technique problem it doesnt happen when i play the same thing on any other frets. Also i dont know any guitarist who mutes all his open strings when playing a lead solo,
there are open strings on either side of the played string so its kinda hard to mute those and play especially when soloing where post strings are open and not being played.

 

[Kent S.]

Re: having strange guitar problem

Hard to tell with those dirty clips. When u play w/ distortion, there is a tendency for overtones to ring out (especially when sustaining notes) if u don't establish some sort of righthand technique that quiets the string that you are not playing.

Bingo, couldn't get the clip to play (looks like he didn't post the url using the tags to get it to link), but sounds like the guy isn't damping the open strings ... If this is the case, what he's getting is normal ... the vibration of the pick string resonates the open strings at a lower level, hammer a note that note that's a less than consonant interval, and with the gain of the distortion, instant minor 2nd, 2nd, or 3rd haromony (even if displaced over the octaves) ... the open strings will resonant more if a note or stronger interval to it is picked (an F won't excite an open e to much, but an e or a will) ...unless I'm misunderstanding what he's trying to describe it sounds like he needs to tighten up his right and left hand damping techniques.
Oh, a ton of reverb can have a similar effect at times also, and some distortion pedals can incorporate some strange overtone effects, but not like this ...a strat's springs in the vibrato can ring and bleed thru as well, same with those free floating floyds and the like.

 

[Kent S.]

Re: having strange guitar problem

Also i dont know any guitarist who mutes all his open strings when playing a lead solo,...

Every player I know does exactly that, whether they realize it or not ... Between the palm and little finger edge resting around the bridge area, and the unused portion of the fretting hand fingers and palm (near based of little and ring fingers) damping string resonances isn't really that difficult or overly prescise. Pick up a classical guitar or acoustic and you'll see what I mean.
Anyway, that sounds like what you have described here, maybe it's not, but that's only what it sounds like.

 

[megalo]

Re: having strange guitar problem

Hi, kent here is the link with the tags so you can click on it




i understand what your saying and it does make sense. It just seems that this problem is more noticeable than i ever remember it and i don't remember this happening on other guitars.
I do usually rest my hand on bridge and mute the open strings just by the way i happen to play but lets say im just doing a simple hammer on G string right after a picked e i would find it awkward to pick the string and then mute the top 3 strings AND the bottom 2 at same time while i hit the next note. Keep in mind this problem doesn't just happen when i hammer on like i stated above it also happens if i pick the second note too sometimes its just a lot quieter and less noticeable.
Also if the first note isnt an EADGB in the problem area it doesn't do it at all. IS this normal for these open strings to resonate so much when you pick those notes. It seems like all open strings do it. I just had my action lowered when setup so i am assuming that just made the problem louder.
Im not a new guitar player but im just starting to get into lead playing more and is why i notice this so much more. Thanks for everyone trying to help. This noise is so loud i just figured it couldn't be normal.
Kent if you read this thread again listen to the link this time I would appreciate your input after you listen to the clip. Thanks

J

 

[Kent S.]

Re: having strange guitar problem

It sounds like your not damping the strings, especially in the second, and really in the third note. Your hand is already on the bridge to take care of damping the lower three strings, and the unused portion of your fretting hand fingers should be damping the upper two strings.
Yes, playing notes with frequencies closer to the open strings or stronger in harmonic relationships to them will excite them more , it's simple physics... plus like I said, vibrato springs can get picked up as well , but they generally sound more like a reverberant ring, than an actual harmonic. Your strings could be pulling false as well if your pups are to close to the strings, but i would think they would have to be jammed right up against them to cause anything like this (plus that generally doesn't happen quite as low on the neck as some of these you are referring to), but this still sounds like something ringing over... the more distortion, the more odd harmonics will get emphasized, and the MT-2 is pretty harsh as is, harmonically speaking.
The first note kinda sounded just like strange harmonics produced by the MT-2 (especially if the signal from the speaker feeds back thru the pup (sitting in front of the amp for example), or the amp has a lot of IMD, SS amps are more prone to this ... it's a type of subtle, ugly beating sound), or with a little fret slap, but the second and especially the third sounded like something just ringing over, (man the third one sounded like playing a unison and moving into a minor second).
If you hit the note, and then stop just that note, then you should hear if the other strings are ringing. That's about all I can tell you, even with the clips it's hard to tell. If the technique doesn't seem to be the culprit, then take it back to the shop, and duplicate what it's doing, maybe the guy standing in front of you watching, can pin point it.
Again guy, that's only what it sounds like. That's all I got ... Anyone else please?

 

[seafoamer]

Re: having strange guitar problem

Could be that the force of u'r hammer-ons are causing vibration enough to activate the overtones of the open stgs.

 

[megalo]

Re: having strange guitar problem

thanks guys for taking the time to help here
I was just jamming for awhile and noticed that the reason i didnt really hear this much before was because when i play just normally i never really hear it.
When i made those clips i was purposely playing it that way to amplify it the most i could so you could maybe diagnose it more easily.

After what you guys said i paid attention to my right hand and realized i was already pretty much muting all the higer strings with my palm/thumb and if i needed to "dampen" the GBE strings if i was playing higher up moving my ring finger over bottom strings was really no big deal, in fact i was already doing that somewhat. Sefoamer i see what you saying but it seems as thow the strings are vibrating from the original note played not the hammer-on.

I just spent some cash for 2 new pickups 4 pots switch and setup and when i heard that noise i wasnt to happy about it. Even thow I didnt really hear it much when playing i thought that maybe there was something wrong with my guitar, i didnt realize that this was somewhat normal.

Thanks again guys, ive learned alot from this forum

jeremy