HB Suggestions for Muddy 335

[DrNewcenstein]

Re: HB Suggestions for Muddy 335

How does the guitar sound acoustically? I've never been one to believe that a guitar's acoustic tone has any bearing on its amplified tone, as I've had more than a few that sounded great one way and horribly the other, but with a 335 (or any semi-holler) I'd be more inclined toward that notion.

And given that Gibson's Memphis plant doesn't exactly have what anyone considers skilled luthiers doing the bulk of the work (like building them), it's entirely possible you've got a dead guitar that only fire will help. Yes, for $4000.

 

[blueman335]

Re: HB Suggestions for Muddy 335

I've never been one to believe that a guitar's acoustic tone has any bearing on its amplified tone, as I've had more than a few that sounded great one way and horribly the other.

+1. They're two different things; there are many components in the electrical signal chain that aren't a part of playing a guitar unplugged.

 

[audiocheck]

Re: HB Suggestions for Muddy 335

A Solid body LP behaves differently from a Semi Hollow body and a JB is still pretty dynamic.

Yes it does, and from my experience a 335 should be quite a bit thinner in tone to a LP. So why so muddy? This is why I suggest a more articulate pickup, compared to a JB. Yes a JB in a proper sounding 335, would probably rock, but in a muddy one? I think you be looking at further frustration with the JB.

my $.02

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: HB Suggestions for Muddy 335

I don't hear my ES335 as being thinner in any way compared to any Les Paul I've compared it to - and I've owned and worked on some good ones.

Just the opposite.

Not with a cleanish or semi-clean tone at lower volumes anyway - that's for sure!

The 50's mod and some vintage output pickups are what I like in my own ES-335.

Those have all been recommended.

I'd stay away from the JB in a ES335 - it's not my cup of tea.

I like to rock but I'm mostly a jazzy blues player.

As far as overdrive pedals go, a Klon Klone is what works for me - and that after 40 years of owning a jillion different overdrive pedals like Rats, ES808, DS1's, Kot, etc. After all that, I like the Klon circuit and the Xotic EP1 circuit best for my style.

 

[Bludave]

Re: HB Suggestions for Muddy 335

Since you have your guitar taken apart, try the 50's Mod.

Each of your tone capacitors are probably attached to the #1 terminal of the volume pots, which is the input of the volume pot - the terminal each of your pickups is soldered to.

Move each tone cap to the middle terminal of each volume control instead. The middle terminal is the output of the volume control.

That'll brighten things up and add some clarity when you turn down the volume controls.

Here's a shot of a early 50's Gibson Les Paul.

Connect your tone capacitors like this:



This is how my own ES-335 is wired. It's a big help and gives me a clearer, less muddy tone.

What pickups are you using in your 335 Lew?

 

[LtKojak]

Re: HB Suggestions for Muddy 335

Yes it does, and from my experience a 335 should be quite a bit thinner in tone to a LP

*My* experience is exactly the opposite...

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: HB Suggestions for Muddy 335

What pickups are you using in your 335 Lew?

It came to me with a set of Tom Holmes humbuckers already installed.

And it sounded a little muddy with the stock wiring - especially when I'd lower the volume control to play chords.

Seymour or Mj wound me a set of bright clear sounding humbuckers like the Jazz HB's, and Jol Dantzig installed them and also did the 50's mod and replaced Gibson's original 300K pots with 500K.

When I got it back that set of Custom Shop pickups sounded to bright and clear with the 50's mod and the new pots.

So I put the Tom Holmes pickups back in and with the new 500K controls and with the 50's mod, those Tom Holmes humbuckers sounded fantastic.

They're alnico 2 and according to Tom they're the same pickups Billy Gibbons uses in some of his guitars.

But I want to emphasize that they didn't sound the way I wanted them to until 500K pots were installed and the 50's mod was done.

 

[audiocheck]

Re: HB Suggestions for Muddy 335

*My* experience is exactly the opposite...

Could be I had a crappy 355. That is why I typed "my experience". Every guitar is different. I never really cared for it.

 

[Gearjunkie52]

Re: HB Suggestions for Muddy 335

Sure a tough call and hope I'm not lucky enough to have got a sonic dud, because now after owning it for close to a year, I'm confident Gibson wont be too willing to return my money..

Lack of quality in workmanship is evident just pulling the pickups, wood burrs around routes, guess they were waiting on next shipment of sandpaper to arrive..not to mention their marketing ploy with their 5Pleck machine, because I'm sure mine got missed.. high E string kept rolling off board and constant unstable tuning issues, just to name a few sad disappointments with this so called high end instrument.. I certainly should not have needed to spend another $250 to have a luthier level crown and polish frets, install new bone nut after spending the money this guitar costs.. and now, tone issues.. haha if I knew I wasn't in for such a big financial loss on this guitar, it would be down the musical road..

With money being tight right now at least for the next month or so, I'm wondering if I could incorporate either the 1980 Tim shaw bridge pup I have or a 490/498 sitting in the drawer might be used with possibly a 1 meg pot and resistor if that might help wake the lame dog up, until I can afford a new set of maybe the PG

when I bought the shaw,I was under assumption it was a neck position from the seller, and installed in neck of a tele and it wasn't overly bright with nice creamy tones, then eventually went back to lipstick in neck, but sure a nice sounding pickup... if swapping pups out in semi hollers was easy as teles, it wouldn't be any big deal and would experiment with what I currently have in the stash..

Either way, I'm certainly disheartened at this point with this 335

 

[blueman335]

Re: HB Suggestions for Muddy 335

Lack of quality in workmanship is evident just pulling the pickups, wood burrs around routes, guess they were waiting on next shipment of sandpaper to arrive..not to mention their marketing ploy with their 5Pleck machine, because I'm sure mine got missed.. high E string kept rolling off board and constant unstable tuning issues, just to name a few sad disappointments with this so called high end instrument.. I certainly should not have needed to spend another $250 to have a luthier level crown and polish frets, install new bone nut after spending the money this guitar costs.. and now, tone issues.. haha if I knew I wasn't in for such a big financial loss on this guitar, it would be down the musical road... I'm certainly disheartened at this point with this 335

And how many times have guys bad-mouthed imports and urged people to pony up for a Gibson?

 

[Gearjunkie52]

Re: HB Suggestions for Muddy 335

And how many times have guys bad-mouthed imports and urged people to pony up for a Gibson?

Agreed !! only difference is, you wont find me bad mouthing Certain quality instruments from overseas.. I own/ed enough to realize they're as good and far superior to north American builds for many times far less money.. Early Tokais, Ibanez etc.. got my vote !! The Chinese Eastman E20D I sadly just sold was the nicest acoustic I've ever played.. By Far !!

 

[blueman335]

Re: HB Suggestions for Muddy 335

Agreed !! only difference is, you wont find me bad mouthing Certain quality instruments from overseas.. I own/ed enough to realize they're as good and far superior to north American builds for many times far less money.. Early Tokais, Ibanez etc.. got my vote !! The Chinese Eastman E20D I sadly just sold was the nicest acoustic I've ever played.. By Far !!

A friend of mine bought a new ES175 several years ago, for around $3,500. One tuner wouldn't turn and had to be replaced, a PU ring was installed backwards, and it didn't have any strap pins. Never seen that much wrong on an import.

 

[audiocheck]

Re: HB Suggestions for Muddy 335

A friend of mine bought a new ES175 several years ago, for around $3,500. One tuner wouldn't turn and had to be replaced, a PU ring was installed backwards, and it didn't have any strap pins. Never seen that much wrong on an import.

it's all good, as long as you don't mind Slave "LIKE" labor. I stressed LIKE here! Problem here is a lot of our american laborers have a poor work ethic. People are human and mistakes will happen, but those mistakes should not make it past the QC person. But mistakes can happen there too. I had, what I would call, an expensive Martin that was just as bad a situations as the 335 being discussed here. Difference is Martin took care of any issues it had. a Martin tech took one look at it and agreed it should have never left the building in that shape.

I for one will always buy american instruments and amplifiers. It's almost the only thing I will buy american anymore.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: HB Suggestions for Muddy 335

I own a great Japanese made Strat and Tele and I've played a few very nice Mexican Strats. The workmanship and wood work was first rate although I did eventually replace the pickups and electronics in those two MIJ guitars that I kept.

And I love my Chinese made Blueridge BR-163 acoustic and play it every time I perform on acoustic and I leave my old Taylors at home - although I love them too. The Blueridge sounds just as good and plays more easily.

Never have developed that kind of affection for import Epiphones though. Just never connected with one and I've played a bunch and worked on and replaced pickups and controls in several.

Love my 2000 ES-335 though. It's the equal of the 50's and 60's ES-335's and ES-355 I've owned. It does have upgraded controls and pickups, but just playing it acoustically is a joy.

In fact, I bought it without even plugging it in.

I'm not knocking the Import Epi's...just saying I've never connected enough with one to want to own it instead of my Gibson.

 

[Gearjunkie52]

Re: HB Suggestions for Muddy 335

I own a great Japanese made Strat and Tele and I've played a few very nice Mexican Strats. The workmanship and wood work was first rate although I did eventually replace the pickups and electronics in those two MIJ guitars that I kept.

And I love my Chinese made Blueridge BR-163 acoustic and play it every time I perform on acoustic and I leave my old Taylors at home - although I love them too. The Blueridge sounds just as good and plays more easily.

Never have developed that kind of affection for import Epiphones though. Just never connected with one and I've played a bunch and worked on and replaced pickups and controls in several.

Love my 2000 ES-335 though. It's the equal of the 50's and 60's ES-335's and ES-355 I've owned. It does have upgraded controls and pickups, but just playing it acoustically is a joy.

In fact, I bought it without even plugging it in.

I'm not knocking the Import Epi's...just saying I've never connected enough with one to want to own it instead of my Gibson.

Funny thing is LG, I owned the same Blueridge as you, and you couldn't pry that guitar out of my hands until I played the Eastman E20D, and again a Chinese built guitar.. I could care less where their made as long as the quality is there.. Very underrated guitar.. A friend of mine who's a good of flat picker as they come who also played the final tour with Stompin Tom Connors bugged me for 2 yrs to sell that Eastman to him, and Al's a man that own's some pretty high end guitars.. ya US only haha

I've owned and early 80's MIJ Fender tele, lawsuit era Ibanez 2618 Artist, and proud to now have a first run 78' Tokai ST60 Spring Sound natural finish zen ash, and honestly I don't care what part of the world these guitars were produced, they don't get any better.. If this Tokai was a US build, it would be a custom shop..

In regards to Gibson and their employees from the love I'm certainly not feeling with this Memphis built 335, pride in workmanship is not there, and its a disgrace..

Brought home a new Gibson SG "Special" last week to try and it's as low quality as any Epi and for $1000 tag, it's another thrown together low quality dog that truly shows Gibsons pride or more lack there of. !!

Up here in Canada we don't have Gibson reps we can call, we have to deal with Long and Mcquade, the Canadian Distributor for Gibson.. L&M own over 60 stores up here, and although the guys I deal with are like family, I imagine their hands are tied as to any comparable resolution to my dissatisfaction..

Maybe a P/U swap might do the trick, but this so called high end guitar has been a troublesome purchase since day one and not sure i'll ever gel with it... sad but true, and I'll take the financial hit and certainly not gibson...

 

[Chickenwings]

Re: HB Suggestions for Muddy 335

How does the guitar sound acoustically? I've never been one to believe that a guitar's acoustic tone has any bearing on its amplified tone

perhaps you need your cochlear implant recalibrated.

 

[Chickenwings]

Re: HB Suggestions for Muddy 335

this thread has self destructed into the usual Gibson bashing and import vs usa mudslinging match.

To the OP:
i have tried 5 different sets of pickups in my workhorse 335. If you want a more detailed discussion of matching a particular set to your axe, send me a PM and ill be happy to accommodate.

 

[Gearjunkie52]

Re: HB Suggestions for Muddy 335

I just got off the phone with L&M dealer and explained my feelings about guitar and I think they just might be able/willing to work with me and wonder if going to a B Stock 339 might be a better alternative to the one I have.. I suppose the 339 are also lovingly made in Memphis also !!??

I'm not expecting a refund, but rather a guitar they stock that'll at least satisfy.. Thoughts ??

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: HB Suggestions for Muddy 335

In regards to Gibson and their employees from the love I'm certainly not feeling with this Memphis built 335, pride in workmanship is not there, and its a disgrace..

Brought home a new Gibson SG "Special" last week to try and it's as low quality as any Epi and for $1000 tag, it's another thrown together low quality dog that truly shows Gibsons pride or more lack there of. !!

That's a bummer. But around 1970 I owned a '58 ES-335 that was then only about 12 years old. It was a total dud. Paf pickups, 100% stock and a complete dud. Probably worth a fortune today, but still a dud. What are you gonna do? Some of 'em are winners and some of 'em are losers in every era.

 

[Gearjunkie52]

Re: HB Suggestions for Muddy 335

sorry to hear that LG, and if I were a rich man, I just might buy another and lean em against each other and watch em burn..

The few 339 demos ive brought home, I really enjoyed with the 57' classics, far brighter than what I currently own with more spank ta boot.. Are these 339 not made in same plant as 335