Headroom

[Rainmaker]

I have searched the forums and I can't seem to find a thread on quick skim that answers this question.

An amp with a higher wattage will have more headroom, which I believe is superior cleans that 'breathe' better.

Upon that assumption, tube amps sound better when they are cranked, correct?

That being said, which is better, more headroom (higher wattage) or the ability to crank the amp louder (lower wattage)... I assume it is a matter of preference? What are your opinions?

 

[dd12939]

Re: Headroom

It depends what music you're playing, and what you want it to sound like. If you like Preamp or Pedal distortion from your amp, you probably want higher wattage so the signal you're amplifying through the power amp is more-or-less unchanged. All the amps mentioned in the "brutally clean amp" thread are high wattage (most are 80 watts on up, iirc). From what I've heard and seen though, to get the much-sought-after power tube distortion, you either need a place where you can get as loud as you want, or a lower wattage amp. For example, it's a lot easier to get a nice power-amp grit from a Blues Jr. (15 Watts) than from a Hot Rod Deville (60 Watts).
For my tastes personally, I prefer lower wattage amps. Cleans that are sitting right on the edge of breaking up sound pretty cool, and the more filled-out distortion sound I've heard from cranked amps is a lot more pleasing to my ears.

 

[Rainmaker]

Re: Headroom

I understand completely, thanks for the help Double D!

 

[That90'sGuy]

Re: Headroom

It's all about the moderately low wattage amps. If you can find an amp that's 30w switchable to 15w (pentode/triode switch), that's probably the best way to go. 15w is more than loud enough for light band rehearsals, and live, 30w should be more than enough to cut through the band.

Headroom is affected by more than just wattage. My Fargen Epic 30 DC has tons of it, even at 15w, so it goes to show that it's based on the preamp design more than anything.

The fact is this, 90% of the guitarists out there (and yes, I pulled that stat out of my *ss) simply aren't able to get the cranked sounds of their amplifiers due to how loud they are. Lower combos allow much better power tube distortion to come through at manageable volumes. People say about how much force a 100w amp has. That may be true, but the odds are that few will be able to get to that point. A lower wattage amp may not have quite the push that a 100w amp has, but the tone will ultimately be there and it will be a lot more enjoyable for your neighbors (and your own ears)

 

[Rainmaker]

Re: Headroom

That being said Chris, name some great combos that have low wattage (thanks for the explanation)... I'm looking at an ENGL Screamer 50 but based on your description it will probably be a bit much, unless I get a THD Hotplate or similar.

 

[Burkwieser]

Re: Headroom

That being said Chris, name some great combos that have low wattage (thanks for the explanation)... I'm looking at an ENGL Screamer 50 but based on your description it will probably be a bit much, unless I get a THD Hotplate or similar.

I would not go much over 50 watts, unless you are playing large clubs, or you use a THD Hoplate or something similar. If you are really stuck on the sound of a higher watt amp, I suppose you could allways have a power level switch installed. Just another option.

 

[Cazmarzak]

Re: Headroom

I don't know about headroom, but I have always been told by guys that build amps ,that 50 watts isn't twice as low in Volume as 100 or vice versa.

So in other words , just because you can't crank a 100 watt head , doesnt' mean you can crank a 50 watt in the same aplication.

I have a 50 watt head and that is SUPER loud for a small club.

As a note though, I have 50 watt DSl and I could crank it to about 4 in most places that I played in, and that was enough to make it sound good, and my cleans never approached the point of breakup.

 

[PUCKBOY99]

Re: Headroom

Well, my understanding of headroom doesn't have anything to do necessarily with wattage.

It has to do with how far can you push the amp/tube saturation to the point where the cleans start to distort.

I have a Hiwatt Custom 50. It had some big fat coke bottle GT EL34s in there & stayed nice & clean to about 6 on the volume knob & then started to break up, sounding pretty nice when dimed.

It's in being rebiased for KT-88s (and getting a check-up....it's 23years old) right now, which should give monstrous headroom pretty much all the way up.

So, that said....unless I'm completely wrong, headroom has more to do with the circuitry of the amp & the tubes being used as opposed to the wattage/output.

Where wattage/output comes in is can you stand to crank a 50watt Hiwatt to the point of complete saturation? NO !!! If you asked Pete Townshend he'd say, "Huh.....what'd you say??"

That's where the lower watt amps come in. It's easier to completely saturate tubes in a 15 watt amp without going completely deaf & making the wrong type of friends of the local cops beating down your door!

Two words for you: Power Attenuator !!! :laugh2:

 

[Rainmaker]

Re: Headroom

Thanks for all the help, guys! I have a better grasp on the issue now.

 

[Burkwieser]

Re: Headroom

I don't know about headroom, but I have always been told by guys that build amps ,that 50 watts isn't twice as low in Volume as 100 or vice versa.

So in other words , just because you can't crank a 100 watt head , doesnt' mean you can crank a 50 watt in the same aplication.

I have a 50 watt head and that is SUPER loud for a small club.

As a note though, I have 50 watt DSl and I could crank it to about 4 in most places that I played in, and that was enough to make it sound good, and my cleans never approached the point of breakup.

You are right on that! I find 50 watts to be way more than enough. I run both my amps at about 4-6. I find that effects play a part in volume too, especially multiple effects. You are suppose to adjust the input output to match the volume of the amp dry, but with multi effects I find that a little hard to do sometime and still keep the type of sound effect I am looking for. It allways seems to increase the sound volume a little for me.

 

[castiron]

Re: Headroom

is it the same way for speakers?
like if u have high wattage speakers ull have a lot of headroom, yet if theyre low wattage ull get a better cranked sound?

 

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: Headroom

is it the same way for speakers?
like if u have high wattage speakers ull have a lot of headroom, yet if theyre low wattage ull get a better cranked sound?

No. Headroom refers to how much dynamic range is availble in the amp, not the speakers. Tho, if the speakers can't reproduce it, there's no point.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Headroom

I have searched the forums and I can't seem to find a thread on quick skim that answers this question.

An amp with a higher wattage will have more headroom, which I believe is superior cleans that 'breathe' better.

Upon that assumption, tube amps sound better when they are cranked, correct?

That being said, which is better, more headroom (higher wattage) or the ability to crank the amp louder (lower wattage)... I assume it is a matter of preference? What are your opinions?

I have never had trouble playing to loud. :saeek: It's getting a fat, ballsy tone at a low volume that's always been the problem.

IMO, most players have an amp that is to powerful for most of the gigs they play.

Unless you're playing a jazz or country gig and want a very clean snappy tone, an 80 watt Twin Reverb is to much amp for 90% of the players out there. A 100 watt Marshall plexi is to much amp too...unless you're playing stadiums.

I'm a HUGE advocate of smaller amps. I like 20 watt amps. If I need more volume or more headroom I just bring two.

I don't like carrying around heavy amps either. That's why my Marshall 1/2 stack stays home with my Super Reverb and other 50 watt amps.

Two 5E3 Deluxes or Deluxe Reverbs will do the trick for me.

I've never been happier with my tone than now, playing through a couple of Fender 20 watt amps.

Lew

 

[theboatcandream]

Re: Headroom

I play with an old traynor which is supposed to be "45-55" watts, and it's just loud enough to compete with the drumkit. Any quieter and we'd be in trouble during practices.

I actually prefer the distortion I get from my overdrive pedal over the distortion of the amp. I should probably replace both with a marshall head and a signal booster or whatever that little red thing is called. Also, can't you mic amps at big venues if they aren't loud enough?