Help! I can't play lead!

[Jrex]

Re: Help! I can't play lead!

To me music isn't science? Music is emotion, you should feel what you play, and feel what you hear. When you learn some scales and such and add a little of this to that etc.. the emotion that makes you who you are will start to bleed thru... Thats what makes most of the simplest solo's sound so awesome. It's because it's RAW emotion coming thru the amplifier. To me ppl that play from their heart instead of straight out scale riffiing is the greatest sound in the world! When you get practiced up and get a general feel for notations up and down the fretboard you'll start to play what sounds and feels good. Thats when you progress to a position that awes everybody in the room. Don't get so stressed on technicalities and just play what feels good. The technical stuff is good too but start slow and let the MUSIC move you not the technical stuff, that will come later...

 

[Tele-Bob]

Re: Help! I can't play lead!

To me music isn't science? ...

I agree, but if you've ever heard a caveman express pure emotion without the language to define it, then you know what "emotion players" sound like without the knowledge to back it up.

 

[guitfiddle]

Re: Help! I can't play lead!

What a crock...cavemen don't exist anymore cause they couldn't talk, and even as pure an emotional creature as a baby learns to talk AS SOON AS POSSIBLE cause pure emotional crying ain't gonna cut it in the real world.
Learn the language at the same time as you learn to express. Blindly grabbing for something cause you feel it might just end up sounding like ****.

 

[Jrex]

Re: Help! I can't play lead!

Ok tele-bob and guitfiddle? 1st off! Neither of you apparently read the complete post. 2nd, I never said anything about a caveman or a baby? Ok so now I guess I have to quote myself because everyone obviously missed it.

When you get practiced up and get a general feel for notations up and down the fretboard you'll start to play what sounds and feels good. Thats when you progress to a position that awes everybody in the room.

What part of that said jump blindly into the fire and you'll be a great musician ? :werd:

 

[millsart]

Re: Help! I can't play lead!

I agree, but if you've ever heard a caveman express pure emotion without the language to define it, then you know what "emotion players" sound like without the knowledge to back it up.

And if you've ever had to sit through a technical players attempt at what their textbooks and theory tell them is "emotion" most listeners would take the musical stylings of a caveman.


I've said it once and I'll say it again, 99% of the listeners (I know your in the 1% so more power to you) couldn't care less about theory, how difficult something is, how technical is it is. They simply want something they can dance to, rock out to while driving their car or at the show, something that keeps them going while jogging and listening to the Ipod etc.


No one sits around dissecting tracks going "hmmm, here he utilized three E minor modalites in the first 6 bars (pentonic minor, aeolian and dorian), quite impressive"


Its like missing the whole point and meaning of the lyrics to a song because your only concerned with the grammar and sentence structure.

 

[guitfiddle]

Re: Help! I can't play lead!

Sorry I mis interpreted your post, Jrex, but the science MUST come along at the same time for the emotion to come through. They are NOT mutualy exclusive like some folks believe, but rather are hand in hand. The trick is to get hung up on the emotional side, rather than the scientific side, but you still have to have both for it to work.

 

[Thunder7]

Re: Help! I can't play lead!

I was just like the OP, I strictly played rhythm because the guy I played with strictly played lead. I could dabble a little in lead back then but he couldn't really hold down a solid rhythm. This guy could burn and do all the crazy stuff and he taught me a lot but I always get back to playing rhythm and trying to do interesting things with that. I'm in a Trio + 1 setting right now and since our singer doesn't play guitar or anything, it's a lot different in that setting because you want to try to find a balance of lead and rhythm work going on. I think the biggest thing that helped me learn lead was to get over my fear of hitting bad notes, I used to tense up and make more mistakes than I would if I was relaxed and just took the good with the bad. I still hit some bad ones but not as much as I did and now when I hit them they don't throw me too far off track. Good luck though!

 

[Jrex]

Re: Help! I can't play lead!

No I agree guitfiddle, you need a good knowledge of the fretboard. I didn't mean it in that way. It's just to me if you get to technical then it seems to lose soul. It's really good for showing off chops and talent etc... But yes a good knowledge mixed with raw emotion = vaughan = hendrix etc... Thats the killer part about guitar, you can take it where ever your mind wants it to go! Just practice up, learn some easier scales and go from there. 1 step at a time. When it clicks, you'll know it! Have fun is most important!

 

[Jrex]

Re: Help! I can't play lead!

WOOHOO, I have graduated from junior member to just plain ol' member BTW!! I gots a star under my name now!

 

[Robbyk]

Re: Help! I can't play lead!

Ok here is my take on lead playing. Too many times people want to play as fast as possible. They want it cranked so it is mind boggling as what they are playing. They are like a robot and play the same thing over and over. They like to imitate the original artists, I feel it is better to be you and play what you feel should be there, but use some of the signature riffs in the tunes. After all that is what makes a tune so special when played by many others and not the originals. It takes on the personality of those who play it at the time.
Now here is my take on all this, I feel fast is not the answer. Learn and play something slow for awhile. Find some slower tunes to jam with. Now not only do you listen and play the tunes, you gotta feel it. You gotta feel what you are playing and make it yours. I have heard tunes that had very little notes in the lead, but it made the tune and was just what was needed. So alot , sometimes is too much. Learn to coerce your instrument to sing for you. Learn what it can and cannot do. Experiment like you have a canvas with all this paint, but want to find different colors that you don't have on the pallette. Paint a sunrise with different shades of reds and yellows.
As for reading notes, I don't know how to read and have been playing for over 40 years now.
I hope I made sense here, sometimes it makes sense to me, but not to others.

 

[guitfiddle]

Re: Help! I can't play lead!

No I agree guitfiddle, you need a good knowledge of the fretboard. I didn't mean it in that way. It's just to me if you get to technical then it seems to lose soul. It's really good for showing off chops and talent etc... But yes a good knowledge mixed with raw emotion = vaughan = hendrix etc... Thats the killer part about guitar, you can take it where ever your mind wants it to go! Just practice up, learn some easier scales and go from there. 1 step at a time. When it clicks, you'll know it! Have fun is most important!

Well said

It's like Trey Anastasio said...you have to learn all you acn, then forget it all when you're on stage.

 

[Tele-Bob]

Re: Help! I can't play lead!

And if you've ever had to sit through a technical players attempt at what their textbooks and theory tell them is "emotion" most listeners would take the musical stylings of a caveman.


I've said it once and I'll say it again, 99% of the listeners (I know your in the 1% so more power to you) couldn't care less about theory, how difficult something is, how technical is it is. They simply want something they can dance to, rock out to while driving their car or at the show, something that keeps them going while jogging and listening to the Ipod etc.


No one sits around dissecting tracks going "hmmm, here he utilized three E minor modalites in the first 6 bars (pentonic minor, aeolian and dorian), quite impressive"


Its like missing the whole point and meaning of the lyrics to a song because your only concerned with the grammar and sentence structure.

You're missing the point and taking this to an extreme. I'm not saying that all players should be extremely versed in theory to the point where the technical aspects of playing become more important that the playing itself. That is extreme, stupid, and is just not the case with most people.

What is the case with most people is that any slob with a guitar, an attitude and a pent minor scale will get up there and bore us to tears with their "feel" wanking and adolesant phrasing. Then they waffle on about how all that theory stuff just gets in the way. Give me a break! If I have to sit through one more punk ass "feel" guitar solo throwing minor notes over major chords as the pathetic player just hopes and prays they land on the right note, I may have to slit my wrists and bleed all over the poor bastard. We live in an era of dismal local level guitar playing by people who should be ashamed of themselves for doing it public. Knowledge is an amazing thing. A little goes along way. Ignorance unfortunately, is even stronger. But that's just my theory. :doh:

 

[Bender]

Re: Help! I can't play lead!

If you can find a copy of the old album Mountain, "Climbing," pick it up and learn the guitar solos in the song "Theme for an Imaginery Western." Played by Leslie West, it is one of the most tasteful and melodic guitar solos of all time and it's slow enough to give a guy a chance to "get it."

The song was written by Jack Bruce and there are a few different versions out there, but the one you want is on the album "Climbing" by Mountain.

This is not only a beautiful solo in it's execution, technique and note selection, but it is also in a major key so you'll get a break from the dreaded pentatonic minor by learning this one.

From what you say, I'd strongly recommend this tune.

+100
this song is KILLER !
Absolutely one of the best solos Leslie West did . I saw 'em live in New Orleans and have wished ever since I could have gotten a recording of that show ...... MMMMAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNN !

 

[Tele-Bob]

Re: Help! I can't play lead!

Right on Bender!

I saw Mountain in 1976 on New Years Eve at the Nassau Coliseum. They played first and had Carmine Appice on drums. Then Blue Oyster Cult played and KISS took the stage at midnight! Great way to ring in the Bi-centenial!

 

[NevermindUs]

Re: Help! I can't play lead!

i started and play blues rhythm guitar for years. then after 2 years of playing in a band, the lead guitarist of the band decided to quit. being the only guitar player now, i was voted to play the solos insted of hiring another guitar play. i didnt know what to do, i was no good at it. i want to be like hetfield or stradlin', not hammett and slash. but i think the trial by fire way of learning to solo and improvise was the best, and now ive been told im pretty **** good:27::jester:

 

[xxxplorer]

Re: Help! I can't play lead!

I always finding my self mimicing the main riff of the song in my solos at some point... I am very surprised no one has mentioned Randy! He is I think the perfect balance of Technical skill and feeling it.... most of his solos are very worked out but man... you feel it when you listen to it. I also think Hendrix knew more than we are led to believe. Now I am not saying that we all need Berkley, because you put on Ozzy or Jimi or even SRV and almost everyone knows it or can sing with it... put on Dream Theatre or Joe Sat... people go to sleep or get board after a little bit. The latter is necessary, but only a small percentage of people really care!

In the end play what makes your big toe shoot up in your boot!

 

[Tele-Bob]

Re: Help! I can't play lead!

Perhaps the best example I know of, of a guy who literaly shreds but maintains incredible feel is Marc Bonilla. He has an album from the early/mid 90's called EE Ticket that is a true "guitar players" album. Marc Bonilla creates really cool themes in his music and dynamic soloing. He even plays a completely decipherable car crash on his song "Manequin Highway." His interpretation of the Creedence tune "Comotion" is stellar, and on his second album, he does an instrumental version of "Whiter Shade of Pale" that actually rivals the original. His interpretation of the melody line is exemplary with tons feel and an obvious knowledge of what he's doing. Obviously, I'm a big fan. Last I heard he's touring with Keith Emerson.

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: Help! I can't play lead!

Lead vs. rhythm. Hadn't heard them so separated since the 70's when I was starting out. In those days, you would even frequently hear an actual guitar itself referred to as a "lead guitar" or "rhythm guitar" -- as if one would explode if you tried to play the other on it. I know what everybody means by it in this thread, one guy is playing chords while the other guy takes the solos.

But here's the thing:

At the end of the day, ALL guitar playing is rhythm guitar. The guy who can "rip through scales" but can't "play rhythm" is also lousy at his solos. Single note lines have to be played in rhythm just as much as chords, even if you're doing a really slow and/or out-of-time thing, deliberately playing in front of the beat, behind it, triplets, etc. Otherwise, your lines will have no feel, just a sequence of notes hoping to impress the girls.

Here's the thing, part II:

Often it's actually harder to play a single note line slow than fast. Take Mr. Rip Through Scales, give him a metronome and have him play the same line about 30-40 bpm slower. He will learn the hard way what a lousy sense of time he has. When a guy is playing really fast, you can't hear the slight variations of the time between notes. When you slow it down, they become GLARINGLY apparent. Mr. RTS is depending on speed to blind you to his lack of rhythm.

Now if you really want to give him a hard time, have him also cut the gain on his amp or stompbox to barely breaking up -- or if you're a really sadistic SOB, have him play it totally clean. Now the lousy picking technique that makes good rhythm playing (chords or solos) impossible is so obvious that he may well break down and cry in front of you -- some notes are really loud and others barely audible, some in between, all out of rhythm and with a horrible touch and tone. He's been leaning so heavily on saturated sustain to automatically compress and homogenize every note both dynamically and tonally that he never learned to pick right, relying on hammer-ons and pull-offs and downstrokes-only with the pick that without all that gain sound as sloppy and mechanical as the worst garage band beginner.

If you really want to be a better guitar player, "rhythm" or "lead", get a metronome and play a somewhat challenging line a few bpm slower than the recording. Also try to learn some true rhythm guitar -- hardcore funk -- which means just about any James Brown song. If you can play that stuff tight and clean, your rhythm -- whether chords or solos, high gain or low, metal or country -- will be there.

But beware, you will be required to get very proficient with alternate picking. Downstrokes-only won't cut it anymore.

 

[Jrex]

Re: Help! I can't play lead!

Lead vs. rhythm. Hadn't heard them so separated since the 70's when I was starting out. In those days, you would even frequently hear an actual guitar itself referred to as a "lead guitar" or "rhythm guitar" -- as if one would explode if you tried to play the other on it. I know what everybody means by it in this thread, one guy is playing chords while the other guy takes the solos.

But here's the thing:

At the end of the day, ALL guitar playing is rhythm guitar. The guy who can "rip through scales" but can't "play rhythm" is also lousy at his solos. Single note lines have to be played in rhythm just as much as chords, even if you're doing a really slow and/or out-of-time thing, deliberately playing in front of the beat, behind it, triplets, etc. Otherwise, your lines will have no feel, just a sequence of notes hoping to impress the girls.

Here's the thing, part II:

Often it's actually harder to play a single note line slow than fast. Take Mr. Rip Through Scales, give him a metronome and have him play the same line about 30-40 bpm slower. He will learn the hard way what a lousy sense of time he has. When a guy is playing really fast, you can't hear the slight variations of the time between notes. When you slow it down, they become GLARINGLY apparent. Mr. RTS is depending on speed to blind you to his lack of rhythm.

Now if you really want to give him a hard time, have him also cut the gain on his amp or stompbox to barely breaking up -- or if you're a really sadistic SOB, have him play it totally clean. Now the lousy picking technique that makes good rhythm playing (chords or solos) impossible is so obvious that he may well break down and cry in front of you -- some notes are really loud and others barely audible, some in between, all out of rhythm and with a horrible touch and tone. He's been leaning so heavily on saturated sustain to automatically compress and homogenize every note both dynamically and tonally that he never learned to pick right, relying on hammer-ons and pull-offs and downstrokes-only with the pick that without all that gain sound as sloppy and mechanical as the worst garage band beginner.

If you really want to be a better guitar player, "rhythm" or "lead", get a metronome and play a somewhat challenging line a few bpm slower than the recording. Also try to learn some true rhythm guitar -- hardcore funk -- which means just about any James Brown song. If you can play that stuff tight and clean, your rhythm -- whether chords or solos, high gain or low, metal or country -- will be there.

But beware, you will be required to get very proficient with alternate picking. Downstrokes-only won't cut it anymore.

Preach it brotha!! :cool2:

 

[guitfiddle]

Re: Help! I can't play lead!

Lead vs. rhythm. Hadn't heard them so separated since the 70's when I was starting out. In those days, you would even frequently hear an actual guitar itself referred to as a "lead guitar" or "rhythm guitar" -- as if one would explode if you tried to play the other on it. I know what everybody means by it in this thread, one guy is playing chords while the other guy takes the solos.

But here's the thing:

At the end of the day, ALL guitar playing is rhythm guitar. The guy who can "rip through scales" but can't "play rhythm" is also lousy at his solos. Single note lines have to be played in rhythm just as much as chords, even if you're doing a really slow and/or out-of-time thing, deliberately playing in front of the beat, behind it, triplets, etc. Otherwise, your lines will have no feel, just a sequence of notes hoping to impress the girls.

Here's the thing, part II:

Often it's actually harder to play a single note line slow than fast. Take Mr. Rip Through Scales, give him a metronome and have him play the same line about 30-40 bpm slower. He will learn the hard way what a lousy sense of time he has. When a guy is playing really fast, you can't hear the slight variations of the time between notes. When you slow it down, they become GLARINGLY apparent. Mr. RTS is depending on speed to blind you to his lack of rhythm.

Now if you really want to give him a hard time, have him also cut the gain on his amp or stompbox to barely breaking up -- or if you're a really sadistic SOB, have him play it totally clean. Now the lousy picking technique that makes good rhythm playing (chords or solos) impossible is so obvious that he may well break down and cry in front of you -- some notes are really loud and others barely audible, some in between, all out of rhythm and with a horrible touch and tone. He's been leaning so heavily on saturated sustain to automatically compress and homogenize every note both dynamically and tonally that he never learned to pick right, relying on hammer-ons and pull-offs and downstrokes-only with the pick that without all that gain sound as sloppy and mechanical as the worst garage band beginner.

If you really want to be a better guitar player, "rhythm" or "lead", get a metronome and play a somewhat challenging line a few bpm slower than the recording. Also try to learn some true rhythm guitar -- hardcore funk -- which means just about any James Brown song. If you can play that stuff tight and clean, your rhythm -- whether chords or solos, high gain or low, metal or country -- will be there.

But beware, you will be required to get very proficient with alternate picking. Downstrokes-only won't cut it anymore.

Now, THAT was one good post.