****HELP**** MAJOR FEEDBACK ISSUE WITH EMTY BLACKOUTS

Glyph

New member
So I just recently installed a set of SD Mick Thomson EMTY Blackouts in my Hellraiser, replacing an EMG 81tw/89 combo. I was tooling around with it today and noticed that when not playing the guitar but simply holding it, if it gets bumped even the slightest bit or even the lightest of light brushes against the strings, the beast starts howling back at me like a banshee. NOT COOL!!!! I didn't think anything of it right after I first installed them, but then while playing them today, it started to grind on me a bit, so I thought maybe the pups were too close to the strings (I know that with active pups, you want them as close to the strings as possible), but maybe they were TOO close. So I lowered them a smidgen and tried again, no change. So I decided to mess around with the Noise Reduction and Gate on my amp (Line6 Spider IV 75watt). I turned them both off, and this thing is buzzing like an swarm of angry hornets that just had their nest knocked out of the tree, and feeding back like every soul in the River Styx had been clammed up for the last millenia.

The pups and pots are used. Something of note that MIGHT be important, while prepping the parts, I was trying to remove the old solder from the back of the pots using desoldering braid, but for some unknown reason, I couldn't get the braid to suck up the solder for nothing. Either I couldn't get the back of the pot hot enough or the desoldering braid was starting to burn my fingers. So i ended up melting the solder over a portion of the pot back, on accident. In an attempt to rid the pot of the old solder, I then took a metal file and tried to grind down as much of the old solder as possible. Hindsight has me thinking this may not have been the best method to achieve my goal. Anywho, with what I thought was a clean surface, I was able to successfully solder on the newly cleared ends of the pickup leads to the lugs and pot back. Good clean shiny solder joints, so I know there was enough heat.

I used Schecter's Blackjack ATX wiring diagram, since that is pretty much what my Hellraiser became. I know for a fact that all leads and grounds are securely soldered, including the bridge post ground wire that Schecter was kind enough to include. I double checked all connections before performing final fittings.

Could this little mishap be the cause of this thing shrieking like a Siren trying to lure in lost sailors at sea??

Any help would be greatly appreciated??
 
Re: ****HELP**** MAJOR FEEDBACK ISSUE WITH EMTY BLACKOUTS

Feedback is mechanical in nature - something is vibrating in response to sound waves. What you did with the file is perfect.

It's usually the pickups vibrating in the rings, often fed by the resonance of the mounting springs. Try holding the pickup still with your fingers and see if it changes the nature of the feedback. If so, you can try rubber tubing instead of springs. If the pickup still vibrates, you can try foam under it to hold it still.
 
Re: ****HELP**** MAJOR FEEDBACK ISSUE WITH EMTY BLACKOUTS

How much gain do you have set on the Line6?

High output pickups into an extremely high gain amplifier invites howlaround.

Also, my experience with SD Live Wire Classic II humbuckers has been that they are abnormally sensitive to the RF interference generated by computer monitors and "wall wart" power supply units.
 
Re: ****HELP**** MAJOR FEEDBACK ISSUE WITH EMTY BLACKOUTS

ParameterMan's advice is spot on. Also, Blackouts are a lot louder than EMGs, try lowering the amp's gain so you have the same amount of saturation you had with EMGs. I think that will solve it.
 
Re: ****HELP**** MAJOR FEEDBACK ISSUE WITH EMTY BLACKOUTS

ok, that might address the feedback issue but something else too I just remembered, - that even when holding the strings to mute them, it still feeds back when there is no NR or Gate

what about the humming and buzzing?? If I'm not mistaken, aren't Blackouts supposed to be noiseless, or at least have reduced noise?? When I have no Gate or Noise reduction on, the ***** buzzes like a Single coil thats been rode very hard and put away wet!! LOL And when the NR and Gate are on, if the guitar gets bumped it'll feedback
 
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Re: ****HELP**** MAJOR FEEDBACK ISSUE WITH EMTY BLACKOUTS

How much gain do you have set on the Line6?

High output pickups into an extremely high gain amplifier invites howlaround.

Also, my experience with SD Live Wire Classic II humbuckers has been that they are abnormally sensitive to the RF interference generated by computer monitors and "wall wart" power supply units.

I've tried using all moderate to High gain settings and models, and it still does it.
 
Re: ****HELP**** MAJOR FEEDBACK ISSUE WITH EMTY BLACKOUTS

Just a guess, thought it worth throwing out there.
How close to the amp are you, are you facing the amp?
 
Re: ****HELP**** MAJOR FEEDBACK ISSUE WITH EMTY BLACKOUTS

Ive been both ways and it still does it.

If I'm not mistaken, aren't Blackouts supposed to be noiseless, or at least have reduced noise?? When I have no Gate or Noise reduction on, the ***** buzzes like a Single coil thats been rode very hard and put away wet!! LOL And when the NR and Gate are on, if the guitar gets bumped it'll feedback
 
Re: ****HELP**** MAJOR FEEDBACK ISSUE WITH EMTY BLACKOUTS

Something of note that MIGHT be important, while prepping the parts, I was trying to remove the old solder from the back of the pots using desoldering braid, but for some unknown reason, I couldn't get the braid to suck up the solder for nothing.

I have the same problem with braid, so I use a desoldering bulb. Works great and leaves a super clean pot.
 
Re: ****HELP**** MAJOR FEEDBACK ISSUE WITH EMTY BLACKOUTS

In a general setting, the usual ingredients for howling feedback are mechanical vibration, extremely high gain, extremely high sound pressure levels, excessive signal compression, proximity to amp's loudspeakers, room dimensions.

Factor in crosstalk from any public address equipment operating in the room or even computer monitor loudspeakers.

*

Since you have asserted that the guitar is sensitive to the slightest bump, I suggest that you begin by investigating and eliminating any possible sources of unwanted, undamped vibration on the guitar itself. ParameterMan has suggested the PU adjustment springs. I would also check how tightly the elevator screws fit in the threaded inserts in the pickup mounting lugs.
 
Re: ****HELP**** MAJOR FEEDBACK ISSUE WITH EMTY BLACKOUTS

If I'm not mistaken, aren't Blackouts supposed to be noiseless or, at least, have reduced noise?

You are mistaken. :( The SD product descriptions make neither of these claims.

Part of the skill of guitarists such as Mick Thompson is controlled manual string damping.
 
Re: ****HELP**** MAJOR FEEDBACK ISSUE WITH EMTY BLACKOUTS

THINKS: If this is the guitar that I think it is, you have a Tune-o-Matic style bridge then a fair length of string running through ferrules in the top of the guitar and anchored at the rear by more ferrules.

That is a lot of undamped string. More, even, than on a Fender Jaguar.

Try wedging a foam pad or some material beneath the string between the bridge and the ferrules.
 
Re: ****HELP**** MAJOR FEEDBACK ISSUE WITH EMTY BLACKOUTS

The blackouts definitely aren't noiseless, they have a cleaner signal with more gain available, great for driving long cables and not changing your sound. also it means they need less drive to breakup.

Most of those built in noise gates aren't that great, if you want high gain get a real noise gate and run it all the time.

I found with mine that when changing from EMG's to blackouts I had to turn my volume, gain and tones all down a bit to get a similar tone. Even then they are bigger and dirtier sounding than the EMG's.

If you want it to not buzz when you don't play turn the gain down or change to a clean setting between songs.
 
Re: ****HELP**** MAJOR FEEDBACK ISSUE WITH EMTY BLACKOUTS

THINKS: If this is the guitar that I think it is, you have a Tune-o-Matic style bridge then a fair length of string running through ferrules in the top of the guitar and anchored at the rear by more ferrules.

That is a lot of undamped string. More, even, than on a Fender Jaguar.

Try wedging a foam pad or some material beneath the string between the bridge and the ferrules.

I have NOT tried that yet, but it will be one of the first things I try, in addition to using rubber tubing over the screws instead of the springs. I'm also gonna add some foam to the bottom side of the pup

The blackouts definitely aren't noiseless, they have a cleaner signal with more gain available, great for driving long cables and not changing your sound. also it means they need less drive to breakup.

Most of those built in noise gates aren't that great, if you want high gain get a real noise gate and run it all the time.

I found with mine that when changing from EMG's to blackouts I had to turn my volume, gain and tones all down a bit to get a similar tone. Even then they are bigger and dirtier sounding than the EMG's.

If you want it to not buzz when you don't play turn the gain down or change to a clean setting between songs.


I thought one advantage of active pickups was low noise??
Actually, the built-in Gate and NR on my Line6 seems to work pretty well. It wasnt until I turned OFF the Gate and NR that I noticed all the extreme humming and feedback.

I'm really not trying to be sarcastic or a smartass in any way, but isn't the point of 'HUM'bucker to buck or cancel the hum. This thing hum like a Strat on Roids!!! I have tried different cables as well.
 
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Re: ****HELP**** MAJOR FEEDBACK ISSUE WITH EMTY BLACKOUTS

Other standard tests that you can apply.
1) Your guitar through a different amp.
2) A different guitar through your amp.
3) All of the test gear at a different venue.
 
Re: ****HELP**** MAJOR FEEDBACK ISSUE WITH EMTY BLACKOUTS

....isn't the point of 'HUM'bucker to buck or cancel the hum. This thing hum like a Strat on Roids!!! I have tried different cables as well.

If you also get hum, the Pickup is probably wired wrongly. Remember that you have to solder the bare wire to ground [unlike what EMG suggests]

Maybe this helps:

http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/wiring-diagrams/schematics.php?schematic=2_blackouts_1v_1t_3w
http://www.theguitarreview.com/mod/2009/01/secret-handshake-of-installing-seymour.html

CU
 
Re: ****HELP**** MAJOR FEEDBACK ISSUE WITH EMTY BLACKOUTS

I don't know if the EMTY is like the Blackouts Metal BUT, is there a chance you put the QuikConnect in the wrong way round..?
 
Re: ****HELP**** MAJOR FEEDBACK ISSUE WITH EMTY BLACKOUTS

I have those pups in one of my LP....no problems.
Those pups require special 25k pots..SD sells them.
 
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