Help me design my next guitar- you guys have provided great pickup ideas in the past!

[Despair]

Re: Help me design my next guitar- you guys have provided great pickup ideas in the p

Bridge pickup placement is sensitive in other ways. Too close to the bridge, and it gets shrill, some would say gutless. That's the biggest complaint many SG players have about classic SGs, they are too bright, and it's not primarily because it's a thin-bodied guitar [that affects resonance and sustain more than brightness], it's because the bridge was placed too close.

I'd be inclined to place it where a 25.5" would a bridge humbucker, or maybe even centered on the bridge humbucker's stud coil... But that could be a problem if you can't make the Rickenbacker pickup work for you and don't want to cover up the swimming pool with a pickguard.

If you have a similar build swimming pool route 25.5" scale guitar already, I'd recommend that you rig up a movable pickup mount so you can test various distances and see what you like, before commiting to a pickup placement.

 

[zionstrat]

Re: Help me design my next guitar- you guys have provided great pickup ideas in the p

cover up the swimming pool with a pickguard.
.

Despair-
This certainly certainly could work for another reason- I was thinking about a thinline tele to begin with to get sustain that is closer to a ric-

A swimming pool would give me every placement option and it would have less sustain that a standard solid body- Maybe this is the way to go.

As always, I make these more complex than I can because I can- deadlines with clients actually make real work easier (at least from hours invested

 

[Despair]

Re: Help me design my next guitar- you guys have provided great pickup ideas in the p

I tend to not like swimming pool routes, though for semi-hollowbodyish tones, they aren't necessarily bad. I think it's a craftsmanship vs mass production thing.

Heck, I tend to prefer no pickguard at all, and that for mostly cosmetic reasons. But it seems like there's a practical use for it, particularly at design stages, here.

Seems like a practical choice here, though. Hm, maybe an inset thick wood pickguard to further chase the semi-hollowbody thing?

 

[zionstrat]

Re: Help me design my next guitar- you guys have provided great pickup ideas in the p

I Hm, maybe an inset thick wood pickguard to further chase the semi-hollowbody thing?

That's a cool idea- I could use different hunks of wood like pickgruds and switch them out- Gotta talk to my luthier buddy- he owes me

 

[Mincer]

Re: Help me design my next guitar- you guys have provided great pickup ideas in the p

Wow, far-out is right- those are some crazy looking guitars, but they look very functional. Have you ever played one?

So, in theory the spacing for the Rick pup in the bridge isn't incredibly sensitive- Imagine I could measure the distance from the bridge to pup center on a Rick, turn that into a ratio for 24.75 and convert to 25.5.

Much appreciated.

Actually, I have, after admiring his vision for years. I saw him at NAMM last year, and played one of his Tesla models for about 45 minutes while talking to him. Amazing instrument, with an amazing price ($$$$$). But I asked a million questions. And that guitar, with it's momentary switches to add in 60 cycle hum (you read that right), and microphonic feedback (yup...squealing) was a blast to play.

 

[zionstrat]

Re: Help me design my next guitar- you guys have provided great pickup ideas in the p

Tesla models[/URL] for about 45 minutes while talking to him.

Adding hum- very funny, but maybe helps with promotion... listen how hum free this model is

I really miss NAMMs- everyone, everywhere- so many fortuitous meetings- sounds like this was a good one-

Funny how the opposite also happens- Spent a long day in a little booth and the next door booth pulled a lot of attention- not a big deal for us as we were pro audio and they targeted consumers and we were plenty busy.

That evening someone asked me if I enjoyed working next to Paul Stanley all day In retrospect, I can see him demoing the pedals, trapped sitting there all day. And it's not like he would have had time to talk- But funny how close you can be to a lot of knowledge and not get a chance to tap in-

 

[frankfalbo]

Re: Help me design my next guitar- you guys have provided great pickup ideas in the p

In other words, if a pup is seeing sweet-spot harmonics at a certain position on strings with a 24.75, what would be the closest equivalent for a 25.5?

I would summon Frank F. out for that question

For a neck pickup to sound 'right' (to me), the screw coil needs to be at what would be the 24th fret harmonic (impossible on most SGs, or 24-fret guitars)

The main driver in the pickup's tone, is how far it is located from the bridge, not where it falls in the scale or fret location. While Mincer is right that there is a widely accepted (21 or 22 fret) neck pickup position, it's actually not related to the 24th fret/harmonic location splitting the string into 3rds. In other words, it's not so much about that it sits at an octave multiple of the open string, it's just a good distance from the bridge.

The best way I can illustrate this is, put a capo on your first fret. BOOM. You just changed the scale length of your guitar. Yet, the neck pickup doesn't sound any more or less "necky" does it? It sounds the same as before. The other illustration is that if it were merely about string subdivisions, then the neck pickup would begin to sound like a bridge pickup as you got further up the neck. The 22nd fret should sound like a bridge pickup but it doesn't, it still sounds like a neck pickup.

 

[zionstrat]

Re: Help me design my next guitar- you guys have provided great pickup ideas in the p

Thanks Frank-
I've decided to go with a swimming pool rout, so I can play around with location and I guess it will be like the early days of design- 'hey I like it right there"

There was a Gibson bass with a movable pickup- I wonder if most people chose the same general sweet spot and left it there all the time?

Much peace to all for making this a fun project-

 

[Mincer]

Re: Help me design my next guitar- you guys have provided great pickup ideas in the p

The main driver in the pickup's tone, is how far it is located from the bridge, not where it falls in the scale or fret location. While Mincer is right that there is a widely accepted (21 or 22 fret) neck pickup position, it's actually not related to the 24th fret/harmonic location splitting the string into 3rds. In other words, it's not so much about that it sits at an octave multiple of the open string, it's just a good distance from the bridge.

The best way I can illustrate this is, put a capo on your first fret. BOOM. You just changed the scale length of your guitar. Yet, the neck pickup doesn't sound any more or less "necky" does it? It sounds the same as before. The other illustration is that if it were merely about string subdivisions, then the neck pickup would begin to sound like a bridge pickup as you got further up the neck. The 22nd fret should sound like a bridge pickup but it doesn't, it still sounds like a neck pickup.

Yes, and my point is the same...there is a 'right' place for a neck pickup. On every 24 fret guitar I've played, it is in the wrong place.

BTW, Teuffel's 'Hum Button' was a large momentary switch that, when pressed, added the sound of a broken cable...loudly. It cut off any guitar signal. Very strange. But I heard David Torn do some great stuff with that guitar, so there ya go.

 

[Despair]

Re: Help me design my next guitar- you guys have provided great pickup ideas in the p

Yes, and my point is the same...there is a 'right' place for a neck pickup. On every 24 fret guitar I've played, it is in the wrong place.

I think that's blowing the problem out of proportion. There are pickups that work better in difficult guitars. Dual Resonance pickups seem a lot more forgiving about placement as neck pickups.

John Petrucci is well known for using neck pickups in 24-fret guitars, for example...

There are plenty of 22-fret guitars that have their neck pickup offset oddly, though. Many Fender clones place the humbucker ring inside where the neck single coil would have been. Or there's the SG, which has enough room to fit 24 frets, when Gibson isn't being silly about that minor change... [resulting in Tony Iommi having to get another company to make him the guitar he wanted, and oddly enough, doing exactly what Gibson insisted was impossible.]

Most neck pickups tuned for 22-fret guitars don't work as well in 24-fret, certainly. Or at least sound different in a way I don't like.

Now, if you need a neck pickup in a 24-fret guitar to sound exactly like a Seymour Duncan [underwound] PAF variant neck pickup in a 22-fret guitar, you are probably in for frustration... The neck humbucker in a 24-fretter does seem to need to compensate for duller high end, and need a bit more low end girth but less bass and in general a bit more output seems to help. Screamin' Demon and other all-screw designs seem to be more likely to work, or Parallel Axis pickups. Or in a stud & screws humbucker, using shorter screws under the wound strings. Hotter pickup with an A3 magnet works well. All this is part of why I wound up with a very oddly set up A3 JB as my neck pickup. I keep wondering if an A3 C/'59 would work better for me... Or maybe a P-Rails neck.

 

[Blille]

Help me design my next guitar- you guys have provided great pickup ideas in the past!

Hmm, I get the Steve Morse, PRS 513 approach- combining singles to get humbuckers, but not sure how that would help this build- Did you have specific pups or combinations in mind?

I have a stag mag in the neck and I'm a happy camper. I get my favorite neck single coil sound and when I combine them in series it's a nice fat tone. Parallel as usual is somewhere in between.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Jeffblue]

Re: Help me design my next guitar- you guys have provided great pickup ideas in the p

My latest tele build has a SD vintage mini humbucker in the neck, SD vintage P90 in the middle and an SD Five-Two in the bridge. Sounds awesome. I agree with one of the other posters who suggested a PRail because it does many things in one pickup.

 

[zionstrat]

Re: Help me design my next guitar- you guys have provided great pickup ideas in the p

My latest tele build has a SD vintage mini humbucker in the neck, SD vintage P90 in the middle and an SD Five-Two in the bridge. Sounds awesome. I agree with one of the other posters who suggested a PRail because it does many things in one pickup.

Good input- Based on everything so far, Prail neck, firebird middle and rick highgain in the bridge look like the starting point. But I have to admit, a SD vintage mini humbucker in the neck sounds more 'me' than the PRail, so imagine it could go either way before this thing gets built.

 

[Jeffblue]

Re: Help me design my next guitar- you guys have provided great pickup ideas in the p

My favorite tele builds have a P90 in the middle or neck positions. My strat builds normally have a P90 in the neck, strat in the middle and either a tele bridge pickup or a humbucker in the bridge position.

 

[Mincer]

Re: Help me design my next guitar- you guys have provided great pickup ideas in the p

I think that's blowing the problem out of proportion. There are pickups that work better in difficult guitars. Dual Resonance pickups seem a lot more forgiving about placement as neck pickups.

John Petrucci is well known for using neck pickups in 24-fret guitars, for example...

There are plenty of 22-fret guitars that have their neck pickup offset oddly, though. Many Fender clones place the humbucker ring inside where the neck single coil would have been. Or there's the SG, which has enough room to fit 24 frets, when Gibson isn't being silly about that minor change... [resulting in Tony Iommi having to get another company to make him the guitar he wanted, and oddly enough, doing exactly what Gibson insisted was impossible.]

Most neck pickups tuned for 22-fret guitars don't work as well in 24-fret, certainly. Or at least sound different in a way I don't like.

Now, if you need a neck pickup in a 24-fret guitar to sound exactly like a Seymour Duncan [underwound] PAF variant neck pickup in a 22-fret guitar, you are probably in for frustration... The neck humbucker in a 24-fretter does seem to need to compensate for duller high end, and need a bit more low end girth but less bass and in general a bit more output seems to help. Screamin' Demon and other all-screw designs seem to be more likely to work, or Parallel Axis pickups. Or in a stud & screws humbucker, using shorter screws under the wound strings. Hotter pickup with an A3 magnet works well. All this is part of why I wound up with a very oddly set up A3 JB as my neck pickup. I keep wondering if an A3 C/'59 would work better for me... Or maybe a P-Rails neck.

For someone looking for that exact sound, it is a frurstrating problem to have. This is why I stick with a few types of designs, and there are may guitars I won't even consider. BTW, I *hate* JP's neck pickup sound.

 

[Despair]

Re: Help me design my next guitar- you guys have provided great pickup ideas in the p

Fair enough, it is sidestepping the problem by going in a very different direction. I like it for fat leads, for cleans I think it works better in the various combined with bridge pickup settings he has for 3 of the 5 switch settings on his guitar.

I wonder if something like the P-Rails in parallel might work for you, which is regarded as having a kind of PAFish sound, in problematic guitars? [Might try rail towards neck as well as towards bridge, to see if one way worked better.]

It is easiest to just avoid the problem entirely by avoiding 24-fretters...