Help Me Wire: 2 H, 1 Vol, 1 Push/Pull Tone, 3-way toggle.... in 50s!

[alexxdb]

I've done a lot of searching but can't find many solid diagrams for this setup:
2 Humbuckers, 1 Vol, 1 Push/pull Tone, 3-way toggle
The push/pull tone is to coil split to inner coils (slugs).

There is a clear SD diagram for a push/pull volume, but since I've never wired before, I'm not sure how to convert that...

The 2 diagrams I've been looking at are different from eachother:
http://www.guitarelectronics.com/pr...ckers3-Way-Toggle-Switch1-Volume0Tone001.html

https://www.google.nl/url?sa=t&rct=...tYqB7C0xbsj5RpQ&bvm=bv.92885102,d.bGQ&cad=rja

The first says it will split to north of neck and south of bridge... which is odd. And also it shows the hot bridge wire being connected both to the toggle and the tone pot, which I haven't seen anywhere else.
The second shows a different sort of capacitor wiring, and uses different lugs.

Off which diagram should I base my wiring? And theeeen how can I convert that to a 50s wiring setup? (i think I just have to connect the other end of the cap to the middle vol lug, instead of ground?)

Thanks in advance!

 

[AlexR]

Re: Help Me Wire: 2 H, 1 Vol, 1 Push/Pull Tone, 3-way toggle.... in 50s!

The push pull is an entirely separate electrical component to the pot. So the wiring of the split is the same irrespective of the function of the pot is is on. And the function of the pot only becomes clear once you have made the connections. So you simply put the p-p in the tone slot and wire it as a tone pot as per normal. Then later once you've got the pot side of the diagram wired, then simply wire the push-pull section as per the diagram.

GFS scheme: Not odd for one north, one south. That combo gives you hum cancelling with both singles in the middle position. And there is no connection of bridge hot to tone pot there - it goes to the push-pull lug but not to the pot underneath. And thats the method this scheme uses to get the opposite coil split but without out of phase issues in the middle position in full humbucker mode.

The cap wiring might look different with the BKP diagram, but electronically its is identical. The GFS method is often used for many guitars as the cap legs just aren't long enough to stretch between the pots so get soldered between pot lug and pot casing/ground. BKP also uses a different switch type (blade vs switchcraft style 3-way) and the pickup colours are specific to its pickups.
50's wiring simply means the tone circuit connects to the middle lug of the vol pot....the one connected to the jack.

 

[alexxdb]

Re: Help Me Wire: 2 H, 1 Vol, 1 Push/Pull Tone, 3-way toggle.... in 50s!

The push pull is an entirely separate electrical component to the pot. So the wiring of the split is the same irrespective of the function of the pot is is on. And the function of the pot only becomes clear once you have made the connections. So you simply put the p-p in the tone slot and wire it as a tone pot as per normal. Then later once you've got the pot side of the diagram wired, then simply wire the push-pull section as per the diagram.

GFS scheme: Not odd for one north, one south. That combo gives you hum cancelling with both singles in the middle position. And there is no connection of bridge hot to tone pot there - it goes to the push-pull lug but not to the pot underneath. And thats the method this scheme uses to get the opposite coil split but without out of phase issues in the middle position in full humbucker mode.

The cap wiring might look different with the BKP diagram, but electronically its is identical. The GFS method is often used for many guitars as the cap legs just aren't long enough to stretch between the pots so get soldered between pot lug and pot casing/ground. BKP also uses a different switch type (blade vs switchcraft style 3-way) and the pickup colours are specific to its pickups.
50's wiring simply means the tone circuit connects to the middle lug of the vol pot....the one connected to the jack.

Thanks! That clears some things up.
I like the idea of hum cancelling in the middle position, but will it affect the single coil sound? And how can I wire it differently if I wanted to have the opposite combo: South of neck & north of bridge?

 

[Darg1911]

Re: Help Me Wire: 2 H, 1 Vol, 1 Push/Pull Tone, 3-way toggle.... in 50s!

For SD pickups wire colors see this ... http://cdn.seymourduncan.com/pdfs/support/schematics/coil_splitting.pdf

Use the SD diagram that you referred to in your original post, it's easiest to follow. If you want the tone control to be the push pull, just transfer the switch wiring to the tone control for the splits. You may want to consider a push pull for both volume and tone. You get a little more tonal versatility that way in the middle position.

Have you figured out how to do the 50's wiring? It's an easy translation.

 

[alexxdb]

Re: Help Me Wire: 2 H, 1 Vol, 1 Push/Pull Tone, 3-way toggle.... in 50s!

For SD pickups wire colors see this ... http://cdn.seymourduncan.com/pdfs/support/schematics/coil_splitting.pdf

Use the SD diagram that you referred to in your original post, it's easiest to follow. If you want the tone control to be the push pull, just transfer the switch wiring to the tone control for the splits. You may want to consider a push pull for both volume and tone. You get a little more tonal versatility that way in the middle position.

Have you figured out how to do the 50's wiring? It's an easy translation.

Ahh... so I suppose you have the slugs activated as long as the hot wire is connected to the tone lug, and the middle 2 adjoined wires connected to the push/pull section.

But then I really don't get the GFS diagram (first link). They say it splits to neck north and bridge south, but I don't see how that is achieved.

I'm going to use the BKP diagram. I suppose if it isn't how I want then I can always try again...

 

[Darg1911]

Re: Help Me Wire: 2 H, 1 Vol, 1 Push/Pull Tone, 3-way toggle.... in 50s!

Ahh... so I suppose you have the slugs activated as long as the hot wire is connected to the tone lug, and the middle 2 adjoined wires connected to the push/pull section.

But then I really don't get the GFS diagram (first link). They say it splits to neck north and bridge south, but I don't see how that is achieved.

I'm going to use the BKP diagram. I suppose if it isn't how I want then I can always try again...

Keep in mind that the diagram I posted is not complete. It shows the wire colors that are used to split to screw coils or slug coils for SD pickups. That's about it, it doesn't show full wiring. The SD wire colors can be translated to any brand. There are sites that show the different manufacturers wire color codes in a chart. I don't have a link right now.

At any rate, the split is achieved by simply grounding out the two coil tap wires. The push pull pot is wired so that the switch contacts that those wires connect to are grounded (by soldering to the pot case) when the switch is pulled up.

 

[alexxdb]

Re: Help Me Wire: 2 H, 1 Vol, 1 Push/Pull Tone, 3-way toggle.... in 50s!

Soooo I need some help again!

Wired everything and the guitar is working... but everything tone knob wise seems to be reversed. It does nothing when vol is on full, but has an effect when the vol is turned down, except it turns in the opposite direction.

I used the BKP diagram I posted, but with changes to the tone lugs (view as if the lugs are pointing downwards):
-Wire connects middle lug of tone to left lug of vol
-Cap connects right lug of tone to middle lug of vol
-Left tone lug is ungrounded


I think I did something wrong...

 

[Darg1911]

Re: Help Me Wire: 2 H, 1 Vol, 1 Push/Pull Tone, 3-way toggle.... in 50s!

For 50's, middle lug of tone is grounded. It can be connected directly to the grounded lug of volume pot as long as the ground path is complete (both the volume pot and tone pot cases must be grounded).
Is the volume lug grounded, Or do you just have a wire between it and the middle tone lug?