Here are some Gibson humbucker sound samples

Inflames626

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https://soundcloud.com/devolve1980/hamer-tone

Above are some samples I posted of some nickel covered Gibson pickups: Classic 57+ in the neck and the 498t in the bridge. 500k Bournes pots with the 498t wired to split. Of the two brands I've tried, I recommend the Bournes over Alphas because the Bournes are more robustly built, but a bit more expensive. I want to call attention to the 57+ at about the 1:58 mark, which is the best neck PAF I have ever played thus far. The only downside is it does not split.

As for the 498t, it is the best all around rhythm guitar bridge PAF I have ever played. The lows and highs seem balanced. It has more high mids than the Custom 5 but seems to avoid all the grit and excess high end of the Custom (I have not played a Custom but have heard it).

The 57+ is an Alnico II while the 498t is an Alnico V. The closest relative to the 57+ is the 490t (I believe the 490r is the same as a Classic 57 but with an Alnico V magnet). To my ears, the 490s sound a bit stiffer and less fluid than the Classics.

I posted these because I seem to remember several forum members not being crazy about Gibson humbuckers, at least for the price Gibson charges. I can agree with that. However, I do find them superior to the Duncan PAFs I have tried, the 59 for the neck and the Custom 5. The 59 is too muddy in the neck and the Custom 5 is great but has a huge hole in the mids, as many have stated.

I thought I would offer these so players might take a second look at these models if you can find them used for a good price. I would rather pay more for a 57+ and get the sound I want than less for a 59 that is less than ideal.

That said, I would appreciate forum members pointing out analogous models in the Duncan/DiMarzio lineups. I assume the AIIP, AIIP Slash, and Custom Custom are the closest Duncan versions to these aside from the Custom 5.

I put these into a set neck/mahogany/rosewood Chinese made Hamer Scarab XT which I bought online for about $200 a few years ago. To my knowledge, these were some of the last mass produced Hamer guitars before Fender acquired them and ended the brand about two years ago. It's probably my best guitar for the money. My only gripe is the nuts are not slotted correctly, so if you go from 9 gauge to 10 gauge strings like I did, you will get buzzing from the nut. I had to have a new nut put on. This is played with the old nut and 10 gauge strings, but I got some buzz on the A, G, and B strings even though the amp on clean, although it isn't audible here.

If you find some of these guitars floating around online, they should suit you well for the money with some modifications.

I tend to prefer this guitar for my left/rhythm side of the mix, while I like my Jackson KV3 with Full Shreds on the right/lead side.

My intention here was to make a late 80s/early 90s boosted Marshall heavy metal sound with a bit of reverb and delay. It is much wetter and has more gain than what I would use in a multi guitar mix, so the gain and wetness are mainly there for stylistic purposes. I did it through Pod Farm Platinum 2.5 with a Tube Screamer>Marshall JCM800>Celestion Greenback 20s with a Shure SM57 on axis 0% room, a slight bit of compression, spring reverb, and digital delay. As always, I used a metal pick.

On the covered vs. uncovered debate, I did feel like I was hearing some kind of bright noise in the very, very high end of the pickup (say, 7k and above). I don't know if I was hearing microphonics, but generally I do find covered pickups somewhat brighter and less open sounding than uncovered pickups. That's extreme speculation and conjecture on my part, though.

Anyway, I hope this helps, and I appreciate comments.
 
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Re: Here are some Gibson humbucker sound samples

To me the 498t sounds like a castrated Tone Zone! I feel like with that extreme level of high-mid crunch there should be plenty of bass, to nail that huge wall of sound idea, which the TZ has. At least for the type of sound in the clip. But then again I've never been overly impressed with any Gibson pups and would take a Duncan or Dimarzio instead any day.

I guess I thought the 57+ sounded ok for that super gainy round stretchy neckbucker sound (lol adjectives)...but far from my favorite.

Oh and thanks for the effort put into the clips! makes for good discussion.
 
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Re: Here are some Gibson humbucker sound samples

The 57's I found to have an ok tonal ballpark, but they seems at the same time both scratchy and muddy. The Seth Lover does this better.
The 498 I only have had in a old Gibson from 15+ years back - That got replaced by an A2pro.
BB pro - raspy, I got a neck one in an SG so it could have been the pickup position itself.

The only one of G's offerings I've found ok is the 490R with the T-top mod....a short A5 in there.
 
Re: Here are some Gibson humbucker sound samples

HALENisking, it may also help if I say that I usually do a high pass filter at 100hz and a low at about 5k. I like my bottom ends pretty tight because on consumer grade speakers excess low end can get nasty.
 
Re: Here are some Gibson humbucker sound samples

Yeah, I was also talking from prior encounters with the 498t though, not just your clip. Still, I would say check out the TZ if you haven't already, you might really dig it.
 
Re: Here are some Gibson humbucker sound samples

Yeah, I was also talking from prior encounters with the 498t though, not just your clip. Still, I would say check out the TZ if you haven't already, you might really dig it.

I plan to if I can find one of the mid priced Destroyers or Icemen Ibanez has rereleased. I believe they have PAF Pros and TZs stock.
 
Re: Here are some Gibson humbucker sound samples

"The closest relative to the 57+ is the 490t (I believe the 490r is the same as a Classic 57 but with an Alnico V magnet). To my ears, the 490s sound a bit stiffer and less fluid than the Classics."

That's basically right, though the 490's both have A2 magnets.

It's true that the 490's are not that different from '57/'57+. The 490 set is a little bit more clear, as it is generally not as hot as a '57/'57+ set. The difference between the two sets is really only significant when a '57 is used in the bridge position instead of a '57+ (the way it would have been back in 1957; calibrated sets were not "a thing" back then). When you are using two '57's, the 490T would be the darker bridge pickup when compared. However, if using a '57 and a '57+, the '57+ would be the darker one compared to a 490T.

490's are going for the same general classic Gibson humbucker sounds as the '57's, but without being tied to classic Gibson humbucker construction features. 490's are wound very closely to a '57 set, both sets use A2 magnets, and both are wax potted. But 490's have some modern features, like a T-spaced bridge pickup and four-lead wiring. They are also available with chrome covers, while TMK the '57's don't ever come with chrome covers. A 490R and a '57 neck can easily fall within each other's range of copy-to-copy variance, and sound absolutely identical. The same variance can make the '57+ and the 490T nearly indistinguishable as well.

Personally, I believe that along with the Burstbucker 1 and 2 set, the 490 set is Gibson's best overall humbucker set. They are extremely versatile pickups – classic humbucker tone, good clarity but still warm and smooth, not too hot, and with a few more modern features that are potentially helpful.
 
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Re: Here are some Gibson humbucker sound samples

Thanks, ItsaBass. That's exactly the response I was hoping to get.

I've heard some people be very, very hard on 490s while leaning toward the Classics.

Would a 490t (being a bridge pup) and a Classic 57+ then be pretty much the same pickup tonally? My only complaint is I cannot split my 57+.

The only place where I might quibble with you is it seems there wouldn't be a use for the Classic 57/490r distinction then, as the 57 splits just like the 490r.

My moving from the 57 to the 57+ was to correct the often observed muddiness of the 57 in the neck. The 57+ in the neck, IMO, is also superior to the SD 59 in the neck.

Burstbuckers, in the samples I've heard, have always seemed a bit bright.

I really like the stretchy, "plasticy" vocal quality on the bends that HALENisking mentioned. Is that a property of the A2? Relative to A5's I've tried in the neck, A2's seem to have less bottom end and softer highs.
 
Re: Here are some Gibson humbucker sound samples

Would a 490t (being a bridge pup) and a Classic 57+ then be pretty much the same pickup tonally? My only complaint is I cannot split my 57+.

The only place where I might quibble with you is it seems there wouldn't be a use for the Classic 57/490r distinction then, as the 57 splits just like the 490r.

My moving from the 57 to the 57+ was to correct the often observed muddiness of the 57 in the neck. The 57+ in the neck, IMO, is also superior to the SD 59 in the neck.

Burstbuckers, in the samples I've heard, have always seemed a bit bright.

I really like the stretchy, "plasticy" vocal quality on the bends that HALENisking mentioned. Is that a property of the A2? Relative to A5's I've tried in the neck, A2's seem to have less bottom end and softer highs.

A 490T and a '57+ are more different than a 490R and a regular '57. The '57+ is a warmer pickup.

It isn't common that '57's are four conductor. That is a more recent development. And yes, making a '57 four conductor pretty much does make it a 490R, though on average the '57 is probably the tiniest hair darker.

Burstbuckers come in five varieties, so its hard to generalize them. The only thing the "Burstbucker" name means is that they have unequal coils. There are the very common Burstbucker Pros (originally called Burstbucker V's), which come in a lot of guitars (or at least have in the past 10 years or so). They have A5 magnets, and always have wax potting. There is a neck model and a bridge model. They are not hot pickups, but they are a bit beefier than your standard vintage-style pickup. They come with all possible Gibson covers (nickel, chrome, gold, etc.) Then there are the numbered Burstbuckers, 1, 2, and 3. These used to be rare and "high end" pickups installed from the factory, but they've become more common as stock pickups over the years, and for some reason they've also become a bit less expensive than BB Pros. They all have A2 magnets. The 2 and 3 models are pretty much equivalent to the BB Pro neck and bridge, respectively. The 1 model is an underwound pickup – one of the most lightly wound standard production humbuckers made, if not the lightest. If the numbered Burstbuckers came in a guitar from the factory, they are wax potted. If they were purchased as an accessory, they are not wax potted.

So, after that complex explanation... Burstbuckers are not always "bright" IME. While the BB1 is probably the brightest standard production humbucker out there, the BB Pro neck and BB2 are fairly balanced. And I would not call the BB Pro bridge or BB3 very bright at all; they have a slightly overwound sound. But all Burstbuckers have a very slight "grittiness" to them versus equally wound humbuckers. It's more complex than the difference between bright and dark, however. It's hard to explain...but it's kind of like there is a slight notch filter on some of the high frequencies. Not that they are actually more present than an equally wound humbucker...just more grating somehow.

A2 pickups are the best at sounding "rubbery" IME.
 
Re: Here are some Gibson humbucker sound samples

I really like the stretchy, "plasticy" vocal quality on the bends that HALENisking mentioned. Is that a property of the A2? Relative to A5's I've tried in the neck, A2's seem to have less bottom end and softer highs.

I think that particular feel might have more to do with winding than magnets. But also what Its a Bass said ^
 
Re: Here are some Gibson humbucker sound samples

I do find A5s to have a stiffer quality. Playing the 57+ in the bridge was really unusual, as I was used to A5s and ceramics. The palm mutes need a lot of help from the amp, and it has a very "spongy" and "springy" on the bottom, ideal for finger and hybrid picking and dynamics, to me. "La Grange" comes to mind.

The 57+ could definitely do metal in the bridge with the right settings. It just made me pick a little differently and threw off my touch.

But I definitely like the A2 quality more in the neck, since bending with neck PAFs has such a vocal quality.

I don't want to emphasize magnets too much, though. A Jazz is an A5 like a 59 I believe, yet the Jazz doesn't feel as stiff.
 
Re: Here are some Gibson humbucker sound samples

Another small quibble I might have with vintage pups is the mesh wire coating that is also used as a ground to pots.

It's a bit like cutting chain mail. I like the rubber/plastic coating on modern wires better.

Cloth wire seems a bit more durable than rubber/plastic but easier to work with.
 
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