Herritage moving to CNC and losing experiened workers

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zionstrat

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We've mentioned Herritage in the Gibson challenges threads, however, it looks like they're having problems of their own.

https://articles-mlive-com.cdn.ampp...sf/2018/02/changes_at_heritage_guitar_sou.amp


On one hand, I get the idea of CNC quality, but losing 'knowledge capital' is simply a smaller version of Gibsons mistakes.

I guess the laid off guys could go off and start a new handbuilt company, but...

This industry needs some focus and more guitarists.

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Re: Herritage moving to CNC and losing experiened workers

We all saw this one coming, new honcho's, pouring $ in, new everything.

People want cheap stuff though, robots = cheap. Maybe they'll still get them right? They need to fix that god awful headstock first thing.
 
Re: Herritage moving to CNC and losing experiened workers

Hand-built stuff is always out there if you want it...and I am sure the new owners want to maximize profits. I would think it is hard to grow beyond a certain point if you are limited in the number of things you can do by hand.
 
Re: Herritage moving to CNC and losing experiened workers

Mincer said:
I am sure the new owners want to maximize profits.
Click to expand...

Good point Mincer-
Yes, most non-profits want to maximize profits, but from my POV, many of the smaller guitar builders are totally confused about the business model that brings those profits.

Of course there are companies who get it- look at Anderson, sticking to high end guitars or Suhr, expanding into amps and pedals- In both cases, they have built a value added 'high quality is worth the extra bucks' brand. So far, they've stayed in the 'Goldilocks Zone' for their markets- staying close to the path that their customers choose.

Heritage's best opportunity is probably on that same path, but they're not building that story and losing knowledge workers doesn't help. It's a little like the Gibson story that we've beat to death in other threads: they need to honestly answer the question "What can you do that no one else can do, why is that relevant to your key audiences, and what does it take to make them happy"?

For the most part in this industry, there's really only one other obvious alternative to value added= One stop shop at good prices = Economy of scale and extreme cross sell ecosystem= Fender and Yamaha, and to some degree, Ibanez.

Heritage can't go there (Gibson tried with far more capital), so they have to maximize differentiation around value add and their strongest claims should be historical knowledge, tradition and high quality... there certainly is room for CNC in value add story, but they're not ahead of the curve with that story and that's a bad place when you are living off of brand.
 
Re: Herritage moving to CNC and losing experiened workers

I strongly disagree with the sentiment that CNCs take the soul out of the guitar just like I disagree with the statement that hand-made guitars will, by definition have flaws. It is mass-produced hand-built instruments that will have flaws simply because the old adage of "measure twice, cut once" can no longer be applied.

However if you use a CNC machine to cut the wood blocks into guitar bodies and necks, the fret slots and all the routes and shape the tops and bevels then you have a fast, consistent and inhumanly precise way to create the canvas that skilled builders can then proceed to turn into a guitar.

To put it in simpler terms, one should use a machine for the things in which you need precision and leave the worker to work on things that should be done by eyeballing, feel, touch, experience and skill. THAT'S where the "mojo", the "soul" come from.

Now, when it comes to the layoffs, I understand a company needing to stay in the black but without knowing exactly what was taken into consideration I cannot say whether it was warranted or could/should be avoided.
 
Re: Herritage moving to CNC and losing experiened workers

zionstrat said:
Interesting- I never really noticed the headstock- Is the awfulness aesthetic or functional?
Click to expand...

It should work well but it's got that snake head mandolin look that I can't stand. Something along the lines of PRS's take would look a heck of a lot better.
 
Re: Herritage moving to CNC and losing experiened workers

I never noticed the headstock on Heritage guitars...I have weird tastes but I do like it..sort of minimal, which I am all for. Heritage must've been struggling, as they were up for sale, which sort of means that whatever they were doing wasn't quite working. Great builders don't always mean great business people. Heritage were always a great brand for those in the know, but they were always an 'alternative to Gibson' without their own identity yet. Their marketing was always about Gibson's history, so I think they struggled with their own brand identity. Even their original models looked like something Gibson 'could've' made, I would love to see them expand into new models with their own identity, sort of like how Eastman does it.
 
Re: Herritage moving to CNC and losing experiened workers

KeeperOS said:
I strongly disagree with the sentiment that CNCs take the soul out of the guitar...
Click to expand...
Yeah, there is no doubt that CNC (and Plek from the article), result in far tighter specs and that has significantly increased high (and low end) quality.

But IMHO, it's not an either/or decision- With a high end guitar, someone has to pick the wood, someone has to consider grains and it would be really smart if that same person is increasing quality and looking for better ways to do things.

Don't get me wrong, it's possible that those who were let go simply couldn't learn new tricks. However, experienced workers are few and far between and Heritage needs a plan that is clearly positioned to their market-

Best case- they could learn from this and be a much stronger company in a quarter or two.
 
Re: Herritage moving to CNC and losing experiened workers

Interesting- I never really noticed the headstock- Is the awfulness aesthetic or functional?
Click to expand...

That is Thunder's personal opinion ONLY, and has no basis in reality. I think their headstock design is unique and cool, and if given the choice between a Gibson or a Heritage (if both were the same money), I'd pop for the Heritage every time.

The loss of tribal knowledge will hurt the company short time, but if the commitment by management remains steady - I think they'll do fine long term.
 
Re: Herritage moving to CNC and losing experiened workers

Maybe they should emulate Blackstar and Marshall? They can keep some high end stuff, but the cheaper will keep more people interested in the long run. Sad to see people lose their jobs.
 
Re: Herritage moving to CNC and losing experiened workers

snakehead.jpgheritage-bg8@750w.jpg
Reality, take it or leave it. If you guys like it that's fine, enjoy.
 
Re: Herritage moving to CNC and losing experiened workers

As a CNC Machinist i understand why they do this. At work using CNC machine you have much greater control and anyone saying the lack of quality is present in CNC made products has never used them and or understand them. They are much more efficient and precise and allow much quicker work of things.
And they don't call in sick or take time off. They also require someone their to operate them too.
I would love to work with wood using them but my job isn't with wood unfortunately.
 
Re: Herritage moving to CNC and losing experiened workers

zionstrat said:
We've mentioned Herritage in the Gibson challenges threads, however, it looks like they're having problems of their own.

https://articles-mlive-com.cdn.ampp...sf/2018/02/changes_at_heritage_guitar_sou.amp


On one hand, I get the idea of CNC quality, but losing 'knowledge capital' is simply a smaller version of Gibsons mistakes.

I guess the laid off guys could go off and start a new handbuilt company, but...

This industry needs some focus and more guitarists.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I think you're trying to apply emotion to a business decision.
 
Re: Herritage moving to CNC and losing experiened workers

I have no problem with CNC. In some cases, a computer is better than an "artisan" that comes in hungover on Monday or is distracted by personal issues. My problem is these guitar companies add automation and when is the last time the savings were passed on to the consumer?
 
Re: Herritage moving to CNC and losing experiened workers

KeeperOS said:
It is mass-produced hand-built instruments that will have flaws simply because the old adage of "measure twice, cut once" can no longer be applied.

However if you use a CNC machine to cut the wood blocks into guitar bodies and necks, the fret slots and all the routes and shape the tops and bevels then you have a fast, consistent and inhumanly precise way to create the canvas that skilled builders can then proceed to turn into a guitar.

To put it in simpler terms, one should use a machine for the things in which you need precision and leave the worker to work on things that should be done by eyeballing, feel, touch, experience and skill. THAT'S where the "mojo", the "soul" come from.
Click to expand...

Do you even know what CNC stands for?

CNC= precision, consistency, ability to meet tight specs otherwise wouldn't be achievable with hand tools, high quality, affordability.
Hand-made= inconsistency, rough edges, exorbitant price (not for quality but labor cost), dubious offerings that only exist in the builder's head that you are actually inclined to believe...you know, the usual BS...'soul', 'mojo', 'personality'...
 
Re: Herritage moving to CNC and losing experiened workers

Securb said:
I have no problem with CNC. In some cases, a computer is better than an "artisan" that comes in hungover on Monday or is distracted by personal issues. My problem is these guitar companies add automation and when is the last time the savings were passed on to the consumer?
Click to expand...

For Gibson, Fender, Heritage, Martin, basically the Americana brands, they wouldn't cause that would jeopardize the brand.
 
Re: Herritage moving to CNC and losing experiened workers

I have no problem with CNC. In some cases, a computer is better than an "artisan" that comes in hungover on Monday or is distracted by personal issues. My problem is these guitar companies add automation and when is the last time the savings were passed on to the consumer?
Click to expand...

Gee.... so GLAD you are not talking about airplanes or cars and anything important where lives might be affected adversely. You realize the whole history of mass manufacturing results in the lowering of prices in order to sell more products to more people?
 
Re: Herritage moving to CNC and losing experiened workers

I think the problem is that these changes sort of cut out the entire thing that Heritage was based on. Correct me if I'm wrong but was their market position not, "Handcrafted Gibson guitars built the same way and in the same factory that created all the classic Gibsons that are so beloved"? Yes there are obvious benefits to CNC which have already been well stated here, but that's not the point. If a Heritage is CNC built and Plek'd and all that, then what exactly does Heritage have to differentiate their product in a crowded market? As a customer why wouldn't I just go purchase an actual Gibson then since there's no apparent difference?

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