Herritage moving to CNC and losing experiened workers

[zionstrat]

Re: Herritage moving to CNC and losing experiened workers

I think you're trying to apply emotion to a business decision.

I hear what you're saying, but it's probably the opposite. I'm a business analyst and believe that most in this industry are missing basic business transformation best practices... Kind of like blockbuster and streaming. Hoping Heritage isn't going down a bad path.

Search for my Gibson posts if this is interesting and thanks for feedback.

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[muttznmongrelz]

Re: Herritage moving to CNC and losing experiened workers

Interesting discussion. I read an article on this a few days ago and, although they had discussions with the "craftsmen" who were laid off and quit, but, once they moved past the layoffs/CNC discussion it read more like the corporate owners had additional plans on turning part of the factory/property into a Hotel/Performance Venue/Historical Musical Tourism destination as well with a merchandising/branding tie to Rolling Stone Magazine.

 

[zionstrat]

Re: Herritage moving to CNC and losing experiened workers

was their market position not, "Handcrafted Gibson guitars built the same way and in the same factory that created all the classic Gibsons that are so beloved"? .... Heritage have to differentiate their product in a crowded market?

Bingo... You got it.
There are many paths...cnc could make sense... But the first step is "what need am I meeting?" Product, production, messaging all depend on that story and Herritage's story is a little confusing right now and Gibsons story is completely mixed up.

Great thread!

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[zionstrat]

Re: Herritage moving to CNC and losing experiened workers

Interesting discussion. I read an article on this a few days ago and, although they had discussions with the "craftsmen" who were laid off and quit, but, once they moved past the layoffs/CNC discussion it read more like the corporate owners had additional plans on turning part of the factory/property into a Hotel/Performance Venue/Historical Musical Tourism destination as well with a merchandising/branding tie to Rolling Stone Magazine.

Yeah, it would be nice if there's an overarching plan that deals with everything in this thread...

If so, they should have been pitching the story way before layoffs.

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[muttznmongrelz]

Re: Herritage moving to CNC and losing experiened workers

I would agree that it sounds like there wasn't a clear strategy for conveying changes internally or publicizing the strategy. Changes/Layoffs NEVER go well initially anyway, especially with long term employees who are being released from employment due to being "under qualified/over qualified" as it usually is termed.


http://wwmt.com/news/local/14-heritage-guitar-workers-off-the-job-as-company-heads-in-new-direction

KALAMAZOO, Mich. — Fourteen Heritage Guitar workers are off the job on Tuesday as the historic company heads in a new direction and management says the new direction will elevate the company, while the fired workers disagree.

Newschannel 3 broke the news that Rolling Stone is partnering with Heritage to make the Kalamazoo factory a tourist destination.

 

[Ben1962]

Re: Herritage moving to CNC and losing experiened workers

Not sure why hand crafted and CNC are exclusive? I just watched a vid on LSL guitars and they do both. The computer lathe does the main cutting and the fret slots, but a craftsman bevels the necks and adds in a human element as well. Nice stuff, but pricey
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/XT3AshMNBlk--lsl-instruments-xt3-black-matte

 

[Chris Pile]

Re: Herritage moving to CNC and losing experiened workers

The computer lathe does the main cutting and the fret slots, but a craftsman bevels the necks and adds in a human element as well.

It's not a lathe. They use routers.

In a lathe - the workpiece moves, and the cutter doesn't (usually).
In routers, the workpiece is stationary and the cutter moves.

 

[Chris Pile]

Re: Herritage moving to CNC and losing experiened workers

http://wwmt.com/news/local/14-heritage-guitar-workers-off-the-job-as-company-heads-in-new-direction

Read through the complete story.... First of all - it's my understanding Rolling Stone Magazine is in a deep pile of money troubles, so why the hell are they getting involved in this weird deal?

I've read up on PlazaCorp - they are not exactly a paragon of success when it comes to business deals and excellent financial track records. Their vision of the new Heritage seems to be a scattergun approach of ideas. Shoot and see what sticks.

Finally - in reaction to the press release from the laid off employees.... This is just sour grapes at losing a job. Disrespect? How? I've been laid off from big outfits before. It wasn't fun, but it didn't involve disrespecting me. There are several conflicting statements regarding CNC machines and perceived quality of handwork and respect for tradition. My guess is the same was said by Studebaker employees over 100 years ago when they changed over from buggy and wagon building to making automobiles. It's a job, people - learn to do it a new way, get with the program, or be kicked to the curb. Also - I do NOT believe they worked for just over minimum wage. I just don't believe it.

The new owners can run the show anyway they want, even if it's badly. I wish them success, and as for the workers - stop whining, and get out there and find a new gig. Your next employer make take into account your previous record of public complaining and name-calling - and simply hire someone else.

 

[Securb]

Re: Herritage moving to CNC and losing experiened workers

As a customer why wouldn't I just go purchase an actual Gibson then since there's no apparent difference?

There is a marketing quote that I love.

"Our product is the same as our competitors the only difference being we charge more to make up for the cost of our deceptive advertising."

 

[Thundermtn]

Re: Herritage moving to CNC and losing experiened workers

Read through the complete story.... First of all - it's my understanding Rolling Stone Magazine is in a deep pile of money troubles, so why the hell are they getting involved in this weird deal?

I've read up on PlazaCorp - they are not exactly a paragon of success when it comes to business deals and excellent financial track records. Their vision of the new Heritage seems to be a scattergun approach of ideas. Shoot and see what sticks.

Finally - in reaction to the press release from the laid off employees.... This is just sour grapes at losing a job. Disrespect? How? I've been laid off from big outfits before. It wasn't fun, but it didn't involve disrespecting me. There are several conflicting statements regarding CNC machines and perceived quality of handwork and respect for tradition. My guess is the same was said by Studebaker employees over 100 years ago when they changed over from buggy and wagon building to making automobiles. It's a job, people - learn to do it a new way, get with the program, or be kicked to the curb. Also - I do NOT believe they worked for just over minimum wage. I just don't believe it.

The new owners can run the show anyway they want, even if it's badly. I wish them success, and as for the workers - stop whining, and get out there and find a new gig. Your next employer make take into account your previous record of public *****ing and name-calling - and simply hire someone else.

Kuok Meng Ru, the Millennial trust fund kid from Singapore with a whole lot of Dad's money to burn. That's the tie with Rolling Stone Magazine.

 

[Mincer]

Re: Herritage moving to CNC and losing experiened workers

Didn't Gibson just let go of a bunch of master craftsmen, too? Sounds like there is enough people now to start their own company. I hate it when skilled workers like this lose their jobs.

 

[Thundermtn]

Re: Herritage moving to CNC and losing experiened workers

Didn't Gibson just let go of a bunch of master craftsmen, too? Sounds like there is enough people now to start their own company. I hate it when skilled workers like this lose their jobs.

Now you're talking! Sign me up

 

[zionstrat]

Re: Herritage moving to CNC and losing experiened workers

Their vision of the new Heritage seems to be a scattergun approach of ideas. Shoot and see what sticks....

It's a job, people - learn to do it a new way, get with the program, or be kicked to the curb.

ICT, I appreciate your input on this thread and other about the industry and I really support one of your ideas and respectfully question the other.

I may be too focused on Gibson and Sam Ash and Guitar center, but I believe the industry wouldn't be in such bad shape if we had good management- so I totally agree that "Shoot and see what sticks." is going on, but it usually doesn't work- for every facebook, there were multiple six degrees, friendsters and myspaces and when they died, it wasn't so hard for those workers to move on- they were coders at heart and there's a lot of $ in tech.

But mim is so small and specialized, that overall I think we should be concerned that we're losing a lot of knowledge and investment capital across the industry and it isn't easily replaced- so I disagree with the 'get kicked to curb' if it's not in the best interest of the customer/industry-

In the Heritage example we simply don't know if it was lack of performance, but in general it is a lot like your buggy to cars example-

In the end, we all agreed that cars are better for 95% of the applications- But do we want to see guitars go the way of horses?

In a way I know this is all moot- we can't change industry unless it wants to change- we can't keep artisans employed- what we can do is set high expectations as consumers- if I chose to buy a Surh for added value in place of a Heritage I might help Heritage wake up- If I buy Fender, for best value, I may be sending the opposite message-

But voting with the pocket book is a longterm and muddy metric- As a group, we can tell Heritage we want more focus, we can tell Gibson we want high value/high quality and we can tell Gretsh to 'keep cranking out the great price point stuff'.

Good product managers might hear us and we might help revive this industry.

Or this could be wishful thinking

 

[zionstrat]

Re: Herritage moving to CNC and losing experiened workers

Didn't Gibson just let go of a bunch of master craftsmen, too? Sounds like there is enough people now to start their own company. I hate it when skilled workers like this lose their jobs.

There you go buddy- SDUG guitars- can I be a product manager?

 

[Powdered Toast Man]

Re: Herritage moving to CNC and losing experiened workers

Some people here still missing the point. Why are the workers upset to the point of issuing a press release? It's not that they're afraid of change, it's that the ENTIRE DNA of Heritage is founded on classic old school crafting of guitars. It's not about the destination, for them it's all about how you arrived there. The company is even called, "The Heritage". This was their entire pitch to differentiate themselves from Gibson.

It sounds like the new owners couldn't give a flying leap about how the guitars are built. They're treating "Heritage" as a brand. And the only value they see in the brand is that it's the "original Gibson", evidenced by their desire to cut costs and create a Gibson tourist trap. They're more interested in selling T-shirts than historically crafted guitars.

It would be no different if a group of Fender employees had bought the original Fullerton factory and kept making Fender style guitars the original way they were made in the 1950's and then got bought out by some new owners who then decided to fire people and roll in CNC machines and open a restaurant and gift shop. Yeah the end result is the same, but then what's the difference between that and a guitar out of the Fender Corona facility?

Honestly though I've never seen a Heritage guitar in real life. There's no dealer network in Canada at all. In fact if not for gear message boards I never would have heard of them.

 

[Chris Pile]

Re: Herritage moving to CNC and losing experiened workers

Ziostrat - per your point about the Musical Instrument Industry....

Some people might perceive it as huge, money wise. But it's not true. Out of America's population, only about 10% play a musical instrument. Guitar players are less than 7% (and shrinking).

One of my clients is the general manager of a Target store. We talk business often. I had a fresh copy of Musical Merchandise Review - an industry periodical - and it had the latest numbers for the entire music industry in millions of dollars. Curtis went out to his car, and brought back this gigantic printout almost 6 inches thick. He flipped it open to Mars/M&M Candy.... and Target sells more Mars/M&M candy in one year than the whole musical instrument business.

Let that sink in - just Target (not counting WalMart and grocery stores) makes more money selling ONE COMPANIES CHOCOLATE than THE ENTIRE music biz makes selling in big stores, online, and Mom'N'Pop operations. They sell to almost 100% of Americans - not 10%. The music business is small potatos compared to groceries, automobiles, energy, housing, etc.

 

[Chris Pile]

Re: Herritage moving to CNC and losing experiened workers

There you go buddy- SDUG guitars- can I be a product manager?

You realize Heritage started with people who didn't want to move to Nashville? How you gonna get the guys from Kalamazoo, Nashville, and Memphis all under one roof?

 

[zionstrat]

Re: Herritage moving to CNC and losing experiened workers

The music business is small potatos compared to groceries, automobiles, energy, housing, etc.
...

You realize Heritage started with people who didn't want to move to Nashville? How you gonna get the guys from Kalamazoo, Nashville, and Memphis all under one roof?

ITC, you're totally correct on both counts-

1. It's the small and medium businesses that most need business transformation- they don't have the economy of scale or deep pockets to fund sloppy process- they need to get really, really good at customer requirements, roadmaps, quality, messaging and targeted channels/biz dev- or they are likely to be displaced.

2. Hey a guy can dream right?

 

[some_dude]

Re: Herritage moving to CNC and losing experiened workers

I think the problem is that these changes sort of cut out the entire thing that Heritage was based on. Correct me if I'm wrong but was their market position not, "Handcrafted Gibson guitars built the same way and in the same factory that created all the classic Gibsons that are so beloved"? Yes there are obvious benefits to CNC which have already been well stated here, but that's not the point. If a Heritage is CNC built and Plek'd and all that, then what exactly does Heritage have to differentiate their product in a crowded market? As a customer why wouldn't I just go purchase an actual Gibson then since there's no apparent difference?

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The Handcrafted Gibson guitars built the same way and in the same factory that created all the classic Gibsons was their gimmick, but was anyone really buying it? For every guy that did buy in it seems like their's 100s more that think they're a knock off with an ugly headstock.


Rumour is they hired Edwin Wilson, who used to run Gibson Custom. If he can turn Heritage into the new Gibson Custom then that statement might have some value.

 

[KeeperOS]

Re: Herritage moving to CNC and losing experiened workers

Do you even know what CNC stands for?
CNC= precision, consistency, ability to meet tight specs otherwise wouldn't be achievable with hand tools, high quality, affordability.
Hand-made= inconsistency, rough edges, exorbitant price (not for quality but labor cost), dubious offerings that only exist in the builder's head that you are actually inclined to believe...you know, the usual BS...'soul', 'mojo', 'personality'...

. . . erm, did you even read the post that you quoted? For that matter, did you even read the post you posted? Because if the answer was yes on both then it would (should) have become obvious that you start your post by being argumentative and then you continue by repeating exactly what the post you quoted said to a T!
I sincerely hope English isn't your first language...