High Gain Discussion Thread

[Lake Placid Blues]

Re: High Gain Discussion Thread

Listen to the Live at the Fillmore record by the Allman Bros. That's just cranked plexis (which are a development of the tweed bassman and there are lot of studio recordings using Brown Face Deluxes that are pretty gainy). The problem has always been to get that without being at knock down the walls volume.

As Mike Doyle wrote:

..so in 1975 Marshall introduced the master volume series. Once again this was a development of the standard model, but it included a preamp gain control, which allowed the player to overdrive the preamp valves to create distortion while the master volume governed the overall output level. Marshall had been converting customers amps to this type of design for some time-most notably for Ritchie Blackmore-and it all worked very well both in theory and in practice by the standards of the time. However, the classic Marshall sounds have invariably been achieved by overdriving the power amp section rather than the preamp, so at low volumes the sound it produces is a little synthetic. It really doesn't become fully convincing until the amp is running at high volume, by which time you could well argue that you might just as well be playing the standard amp anyway....

So the trick was to get cascaded preamp tubes to sound more like overdriven phase inverter and power tubes through an output transformer. Some may like the overdriven preamp tubes sound more of course. But This was the task taken on by people like Randall Smith and Mike Soldano.

In my opinion, the landmark high gain amp is the Soldano Super Lead Overdrive 100. It is the father of most of the high gain amps as we known them today.

 

[LLL]

Re: High Gain Discussion Thread

(in general) Wait... what? :33:

 

[LLL]

Re: High Gain Discussion Thread

Sorry, nitpick alert:

Helter Skelter was written by Paul as a response to a different song; but yes, his intention was to make the most distorted sound possible. It was a response to The Who’s I Can See For Miles. Paul heard described as being totally extreme, and he thought he could do something much more distorted as it was rather tame in his opinion. Personally, I agree; Helter Skelter is much more raucous than the former.

So I guess The Who REALLY started it, but The Beatles answered the call.

Pete really helped Jim Marshall get the amp side of his business flying... hell, he "invented" the Marshall Stack (8x12 cab - was too heavy, cut in half).

 

[LLL]

Re: High Gain Discussion Thread

What's the first amp you would point to and say, "That's where high gain began."?

From my perspective (and timeline), that would be any of the Jose-modded Marshalls & general modded Marshall craze that was so epidemic in the 80's.

We can thank Edward for that in 1977 (and a little later, his plug for Jose Arredondo in GP mag). :naughty:

(but Ed's amp wasn't modded)

 

[LLL]

Re: High Gain Discussion Thread

What's the epitome of a good high gain tone to you?

Why, my modded Marshall JTM45RI, of course (I changed it into a '68 1987) :naughty: :

 

[Jeff5]

Re: High Gain Discussion Thread

I think of Mesa first, then pushed or modded Marshalls. From there, my thoughts go to the more boutique like Friedman, Bogner, etc. I too dislike a lot of the modern super tight, dry high gain sounds and can't stand a lot of the demos I hear. Sound examples of stuff I do like, I guess I really liked the sound on Testamant's latest efforts, Arch Enemy gets some great high gain tones and Tremonti has gotten some killer tones on his Alter Bridge and solo stuff. I also like the way Volbeat is recorded and produced. I love gain, the more the better =D.

 

[some_dude]

Re: High Gain Discussion Thread

What does high gain mean to you?

An amp that doesn't need pedals to get 'er done.


What's the first amp you would point to and say, "That's where high gain began."?

Mesa Mark I


Do you think a player chooses such an amp to hide his mistakes?

Do you think a player chooses a clean amp to hide how sloppy his fretting and muting techniques are?


What's the epitome of a good high gain tone to you?

Mark IIC+

Mark IV

Dual Rectifier


Obviously, my idea is in the JCM800 camp.

JCM800s aren't high gain.


I find myself hating modern high gain tones, especially of Meshuggah-type bands, but I think Black Sabbath, Iron Maiden, Guns N' Roses, and Megadeth are examples of what I think it should be.

Yet none of them are using JCM800s.

 

[Diego]

Re: High Gain Discussion Thread

What's the epitome of a good high gain tone to you?

 

[Phantasmagoria]

Re: High Gain Discussion Thread

I don't really like the whole ridiculous modern obsession with "turning the gain down.."

Juicy fat grinding chainsaw goodness right here :bigthumb:

...with the right amp & settings you can crank your gain to kingdom come without mushing out & while still retaining the edge. Having said that I'm definitely not crazy about my stuff sounding over-tight/clinical. I like a bit of sag/roundness/juice/crunchiness & grind ..that's what differentiates a tone that sounds alive & open & genuinely HEAVY from the flat over-compressed, over-processed/smooth, lifeless, homogeneous sounding crap that passes for "awesome guitar tone" on pretty much every modern record these days...

My fave high gain tones are hot rodded JCM800/Soldano kinda 80's metal (or 80's metal styled modern stuff) & early 90's death metal (Entombed, Asphyx, Obituary etc..)..

 

[Ben1962]

Re: High Gain Discussion Thread

Sounded good until the "singer" started. I tell my son all the time, the music isnt even that heavy so they need some guy barking to give it more heaviness

 

[Gtrjunior]

Re: High Gain Discussion Thread

I don't really like the whole ridiculous modern obsession with "turning the gain down.."

Juicy fat grinding chainsaw goodness right here :bigthumb:

...with the right amp & settings you can crank your gain to kingdom come without mushing out & while still retaining the edge. Having said that I'm definitely not crazy about my stuff sounding over-tight/clinical. I like a bit of sag/roundness/juice/crunchiness & grind ..that's what differentiates a tone that sounds alive & open & genuinely HEAVY from the flat over-compressed, over-processed/smooth, lifeless, homogeneous sounding crap that passes for "awesome guitar tone" on pretty much every modern record these days...

My fave high gain tones are hot rodded JCM800/Soldano kinda 80's metal (or 80's metal styled modern stuff) & early 90's death metal (Entombed, Asphyx, Obituary etc..)..

Just my opinion but I thought this tone was awful....sorry

 

[Phantasmagoria]

Re: High Gain Discussion Thread

haha...cool. Can't lie, I kinda like it myself But the point of this video was'nt to showcase *my ideal high gain tone* ..more like "here's how extreme things can get with one track/no effects/no studio magic" (..ie to get as "balls heavy" with that amp as I could while still retaining note definition/clarity)

This is pretty much the type of dry (DI/no effects/post production) tone I'd normally dial in with that amp..

Loop pedal jam..

 

[dr0]

Re: High Gain Discussion Thread

I find myself hating modern high gain tones, especially of Meshuggah-type bands, but I think Black Sabbath, Iron Maiden, Guns N' Roses, and Megadeth are examples of what I think it should be.

Yet none of them are using JCM800s.

Slash is famous for using JCM-800s. You can go to the fan site Slash Paradise and look at the amp page.

Here's what it says:


JCM 800

One of the most famous Marshall amp and one of the most representative of Marshall sound. Slash mainly played on this head during the early Guns N' Roses years.

Marshall JCM 800 2203 (S.I.R. stock #34 modded by Frank Levi)
used for the recorded distorted parts of Use Your Illusion, The Spaghetti Incident?, It's Five O'Clock Somewhere, Ain't Life Grand, Contraband, Libertad, Slash, Apocalyptic Love and World On Fire

Marshall JCM 800 2203 (modded by Mike Morin)
used for the recorded distorted parts of Slash

Marshall JCM 800 2203 (modded by Dave Friedman)
used for the recorded distorted parts of Apocalyptic Love and World On Fire

Marshall JCM 800 2203 (several models)
used live for Appetite For Destruction, Contraband, Apocalyptic Love and World On Fire tours


He also used the JCM 2555 Silver Jubilee, which is very close to the JCM 800, and his first Marshall signature amp was a special version of the Silver Jubilee, the JCM 2555 SL.

 

[evan47]

Re: High Gain Discussion Thread

The Laney AOR series from the 80s come to mind. I had the PRO TUBE 2 50watt AOR combo and it rocked big time, knocking the socks off my previous JCM 800.

 

[some_dude]

Re: High Gain Discussion Thread

Slash is famous for using JCM-800s.

Slash is famous for using modded JCM800s, and he ditched the JCM800 in favour of the Silver Jubilee.

 

[dystrust]

Re: High Gain Discussion Thread

What's the first amp you would point to and say, "That's where high gain began."?

Mesa Mark I

I find myself hating modern high gain tones, especially of Meshuggah-type bands, but I think Black Sabbath, Iron Maiden, Guns N' Roses, and Megadeth are examples of what I think it should be.

Yet none of them are using JCM800s.

Agreed re: Mark I and it's true that none of those bands use 800s now while all of them did back in the 80s.

Marshall JCM 800 2203 (S.I.R. stock #34 modded by Frank Levi)
used for the recorded distorted parts of Use Your Illusion, The Spaghetti Incident?, It's Five O'Clock Somewhere, Ain't Life Grand, Contraband, Libertad, Slash, Apocalyptic Love and World On Fire

Marshall JCM 800 2203 (modded by Mike Morin)
used for the recorded distorted parts of Slash

Marshall JCM 800 2203 (modded by Dave Friedman)
used for the recorded distorted parts of Apocalyptic Love and World On Fire

Marshall JCM 800 2203 (several models)
used live for Appetite For Destruction, Contraband, Apocalyptic Love and World On Fire tours

He also used the JCM 2555 Silver Jubilee, which is very close to the JCM 800, and his first Marshall signature amp was a special version of the Silver Jubilee, the JCM 2555 SL.

AFAIK Slash used SIR #39 (modded '70 SuperTrem) on the demos that became Live Like a Suicide. He wanted the same amp for Appetite for Destruction but it wasn't available, so SIR sent out #36 instead (modded metal panel SuperLead). Slash liked the amp so much that he stole it and it wasn't recovered for nearly a year. I have no idea what he used on Lies. When it was time to record Use Your Illusion, he went back to SIR and rented #39 again. That time it was available, but he wasn't happy with it and ended up using one of his Jubilees instead. Both Snakepit records are also supposed to be mostly Jubilee.

I don't know how familiar you are with Marshall Jubilees, but they really don't sound all that close to a JCM800. They're both classic Marshalls, but the Jubilee has quite a bit more gain and a VERY different frequency response and tone stack. I've owned a 2555 since 2001 and I had access to a JMP 2203 for several of those years, so I'm very familiar with both.

Slash is famous for using modded JCM800s, and he ditched the JCM800 in favour of the Silver Jubilee.

Slash played stock JCM800s during G'NR's early days, but recorded with a modded metal panel and switched to Silver Jubilees sometime in 1988. I haven't heard of him recording with an 800 (modded or otherwise) until Velvet Revolver.

 

[Demanic]

Re: High Gain Discussion Thread

JCMs are definitely loud. They are high gain. But not like a Mesa, or an Engle or a Diezl.
Now, if you dial the preamp back and hit the front end with a Metalzone...

Sent from my Alcatel_5044C using Tapatalk

 

[dave74]

Re: High Gain Discussion Thread

^^^and if they'd just nudge-up the bass guitar slightly on that it would be near my high-gain utopia, or at least one of them.
I like ultra-gain served in a variety of flavors really.

 

[Plessure]

Re: High Gain Discussion Thread

The Laney AOR series from the 80s come to mind. I had the PRO TUBE 2 50watt AOR combo and it rocked big time, knocking the socks off my previous JCM 800.

I have the 20watt combo. Seems to be a vastly underrated series of amps. And it has the cascading gain stage thing, with two separate preamp gain sections. Doesn't sound very "hi-gain" to me, but i use a strat and the pickups are not exactly set high so that might have something to do with it. Still it seems a bit too saggy and creamy for the tight, djent sound. Not that i'm very interested in that sound.

 

[PS412]

Re: High Gain Discussion Thread

There are heaps of quality high gain amps in the pile. If I had to sift through the pile I'd dig out the black sheep of the Fender family, the Prosonic. Head version of course.