History Lesson

[WGTP]

One morning in the late '70's I was awoken by my alarm clock BLARING a thermonuclear version of the old Kinks song many garage bands played called "You Really Got Me". In a moment I knew the game had changed. After further sonic assaults from "Running with the Devil" to "Atomic Punk" and further research, I found some astonishing things were going on.

This dude was my age, but played like an Alien, sort of like Hendrix did us 10 years earlier, but more classically oriented. I could hear many elements from current electric guitar styles that had been turbo charged and synthesized. Man, I was going to have to do some practicing. How do you come up with this stuff? (Was it the Meth?)

1. This dude was using a HUMBUCKER in a strat. (How come Fender didn't put there humbucker in the Strat?)

2. He had this new whammy bar that had all this hardware on so he could do this Hendrixesk dive bomb stuff and stay in tune. (I still question why he sites Clapton as his major influence, more BS I guess.)

3. He built his own guitar from parts that he bought. It was a hybrid. He did his own graphics on it. How cool is that.

4. He spanked the hell out of it. Harmonics, Tapping, etc.

5. They were saviors from the Disco and Country that seemed to be taking over my part of the world. Did I prefer them to the Bee Gee's and Willie Nelson? Would I be writing this if I didn't?

I say all this to explain the climate of guitar tone. Mixing the Gibson Humbucker (especially if it was a much coveted PAF) with the Fender Strat which had a Floyd Rose Whammy on it became the new guitar to have. It created a BIGGER more aggressive tone and allowed for expansion of the standardized guitar techniques of the mid '70's.

Many of the guitarists around preferred the tone of a Seymour Duncan JB in this new hybrid guitar to the DiMarzio Super Dstortion. (Especially West coast guitarist) Those were the 2 HOT guitar choices, or you could get a '59 or PAF from DM. Those were the 4 pickup choices you had for a while. There weren't 30 different places to get pickups that each had a dozen choices. This is where the stock Gibson of the day (currently known as the t-top) got trashed in the ad campaigns. It was way better than no choices.

Some of the pickups developed around these times were to "fix" the hybrid guitars because the Floyd Rose changed the tone in a way that some were not happy with, made it "thinner" sounding. You also had the spacing issue. At this point, it appears the '78 and CC were used for these purposes. Other pickups were designed to combine elements of the Hot pickups with those of the vintage ones. Initially, there were no Master Volume amps. That is how we got to where we are today...

 

[CountFunkula]

Re: History Lesson

Over-romanticized; 6/10 :28:

 

[WhooHoo]

Re: History Lesson

Everything Ed did had been done before by someone.

Blackmore Gilmour and others had humbuckers in Strats in the early 70s.

Harvey Mandel had been tapping classical like things into blues based stuff as far back as the 60s and guess where Ed picked it up.

Total posers as lead singers had been done before like Plant before DLR.

There was not only Disco and Nelson, there was Punk and New Wave as well as 70s rock.

Ed's riffs spring mostly from Gibbons Cactus Page Blackmore etc stuff and Ed's playing is mostly pentatonic based with speed.

There is no big Ed or VH difference to what had gone on before but if there are differences then it was due to Ed and VH combining things that had been done before and playing constantly fast with over the top showmanship and not backing off for a ballad or a folk tune like say Led Zep would do.

If some like this, just about to have an orgasm approach to music, then ok and eventually it led to hair metal becoming a joke and having to get back to basics with Nirvana.

Ed did it well but some of the others members didn't, especially DLR who has the worst voice and as long as he posed out front it kept the fans happy.
Mike had the best voice but was an ok bass player and Alex was ok.

 

[ZeroCool]

Re: History Lesson

Was the JB around in the 70s?

 

[WhooHoo]

Re: History Lesson

Jeff Beck was.

It probably was but someone would have to go and see Seymour to get it I would say.

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: History Lesson

Marshall master volume JMP's came out in 75. The Dimarzio Super D came out in 72. Really all before Ed came around. Sorry but this was something that was coming whether Ed did it or not. You just happend to notice it from VH but there were others that had set the ball in motion long before.

 

[crguti]

Re: History Lesson

I know Eddie was/is the best guitarist ever existed... but a thread about his pickups every day?
I think is too much.

 

[cvansickle]

Re: History Lesson

Dudes, any of the non-whammy stuff on VH1, including "You Really Got me," was done on the Ibanez Destroyer before he modded the body. Whammy stuff used a traditional bent steel saddle Fender type bridge, not a Floyd Rose, on his homemade guitar. We all cite VH1 as having THE sound, but it was made with gear that was not generally associated with Eddie after Van Halen broke out.

 

[WhooHoo]

Re: History Lesson

Yes it was all off the shelf vintage 60s and 70s gear arranged by Ed in a certain way (no Floyd).

As I said, Ed was not the first dude to put a humbucker in a Strat but he was one of the first dudes to stick to it.

Ed actually started using the bar pretty late, around late 1976 or early 1977 from the boots I think, and Ed's tapping doesn't happen till around mid 1977.

In the early days around 1977, Ed could play all of the songs with or without the bar in just about the same sort of way and Ed often just used the bar to slightly enhance riffs and licks that were the same riffs and licks as what he'd play with no bar.

There are boots and demo recordings of Ed playing the same songs at various times with the bar and without the bar depending on what guitar he was using.

He went more crazy with the bar when he started using the Floyd and also when he was playing Eruption without the Floyd around 1978 but dudes like Blackmore had already gone crazy with the bar and Ritchie used to snap the bar all the time and had to use a specially made one.

Ed has said that he started using the bar because of hearing Blackmore http://www.woodytone.com/2009/09/18/evh-started-using-the-bar-because-of-blackmore/

The trouble with a lot of EVH fans are they think he invented everything and Rock started with Ed which is complete BS as Ed got all his tricks and blues/riffs style from 60s and 70s guitarists and Ed had another thing, he actually had some talent.

Take the blues phrasing and swing of Clapton and the modal like playing of Blackmore and the bar and the hammer ons of Page and the Hendrix spaced out ascending stuff like in All Along the Watchtower (see outro http://tabs.ultimate-guitar.com/j/jimi_hendrix/all_along_the_watchtower_ver2_tab.htm) but played fast and sometimes with unison bends and the tapping of Harvey Mandel and some Derringer and some Iommi and some Gibbons and the pick harmonics and some Cactus and some Jeff Beck and some etc etc and then combine it to how you want to put it all together and practice your axx off and that's what Ed did.

If none of these guitarists were around as Ed was growing up then Ed would not play as he does.

And that is Rock History, boys and girls.

 

[Agileguy_101]

Re: History Lesson

If none of these guitarists were around as Ed was growing up then Ed would not play as he does.

The same could be said for any other guitarist.

 

[Phostenix]

Re: History Lesson

Over-romanticized; 6/10 :28:

Awesome.

 

[Phostenix]

Re: History Lesson

I know Eddie was/is the best guitarist ever existed... but a thread about his pickups every day?
I think is too much.

I feel the same about, "I have no electronics experience, but I want to re-wire my guitar. Can anyone help me?"

 

[WhooHoo]

Re: History Lesson

The same could be said for any other guitarist.

Yes up to a point but it was easier for Ed in a lot of ways because the path had already been set by a lot of Rock players drawing on everything from the Blues to Jazz to Classical.

Ed is a player with a huge amount of influences but he takes bits from them and it's obvious which bits they are.

Hendrix had a lot of Funk & R&B influences and that's in his playing but he was probably one of the first Rock players to include off the wall stuff as well, possibly influenced by Free Jazz.

Ed has some off the wall stuff but Hendrix did a lot of off the wall stuff way before and Ed would have heard it growing up and so if someone can already hear off the wall stuff then they don't have to go out and practically invent Rock off the wall stuff like Hendrix did.

Go back to 1965 and see what was around in Rock and then compare it to what Hendrix was doing.
There wasn't that much around in Rock at that time or before that time that Hendrix could use as a template especially for the off the wall stuff but there was in Jazz.

Ed is not like this as there were loads of things already around that Ed could use that had already been done.

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: History Lesson

I feel the same about, "I have no electronics experience, but I want to re-wire my guitar. Can anyone help me?"

Whats wrong with that its an honest question. Gotta start somewhere.

Where on the other hand the incessant Ed worship is pretty disgusting

 

[Phostenix]

Re: History Lesson

Whats wrong with that its an honest question. Gotta start somewhere.

With the internet, the whole world is available to you. If you genuinely want ot learn about electronics - especially guitar electronics - there are hundreds of sites (built by people who spent a lot of time doing it) that will teach you the basics of how things work & how to solder. There's really no excuse for not starting with those resources first.

If you don't have the basics down, it's not realistic to expect people on a forum to explain wiring mods to you. Your chances of successfully completing those mods is not high, either - especially if you have no soldering skills.

Amp forums are the same way - "I just blew up my ABC amp. I don't know anything about electronics. How do I fix it?"

We all have our pet peaves. I guess that since I grew up in a time when none of this stuff was available, I find it annoying that people won't use the vast resources available to them.

BTW, I'm more than willing to help people learn & experiment. I do a ton of it on internet forums.

 

[blueman335]

Re: History Lesson

Ed's riffs spring mostly from Gibbons Cactus Page Blackmore etc stuff and Ed's playing is mostly pentatonic based with speed.

I hear Jeff Beck as a major influence on EVH. Listen to Beck's 'Going Down' (1970?) with all those frantic little riffs and whammy bar, and you have the template for what EVH did. Remember too, Van Halen came out at a time when flashy guitarwork was not very popular; disco dominated the airwaves in the late '70's and the emerging punk/new wave was anti-lead guitar. Van Halen was going to stand out, not for being different than their predecessors, but for being different from what was going on at the time, which was a lowpoint in music history. VH were a novelty and seemed much better at the time, but for many of us, the glitter has worn off and we see them as overrated. They were very commercial and pop-oriented. Look at all the MTV videos of the whole band constantly posing for the cameras. I guess the hype still lives on.

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: History Lesson

With the internet, the whole world is available to you. If you genuinely want ot learn about electronics - especially guitar electronics - there are hundreds of sites (built by people who spent a lot of time doing it) that will teach you the basics of how things work & how to solder. There's really no excuse for not starting with those resources first.

If you don't have the basics down, it's not realistic to expect people on a forum to explain wiring mods to you. Your chances of successfully completing those mods is not high, either - especially if you have no soldering skills.

Amp forums are the same way - "I just blew up my ABC amp. I don't know anything about electronics. How do I fix it?"

We all have our pet peaves. I guess that since I grew up in a time when none of this stuff was available, I find it annoying that people won't use the vast resources available to them.

BTW, I'm more than willing to help people learn & experiment. I do a ton of it on internet forums.

Something of a contradiction but whatever. The forums are a resource making use of someone elses experience can help you in your own. Really whats the difference between someone using a book for a resource or a forum?


Maybe its the fact that I live as an expat in a foreign country where lots of times iam subject to the mercy of strangers to help me with the things I need. Even if all they do is point me to a different resource. You assume that everyone knows where to find these resources. Its like the people that tell you to google something there are people out there that dont know how to do it.

The part that kinda cracks me up though is you say since your older and didnt have the net that it irritates you when people dont use the resources at hand. This makes me think of my mom who only a few years ago I set up on the net. She by far isnt dumb but she grew up in another time so for her navigating the net isnt easy. So if she can have someone to ask its a great relief to her. The forums are a great resource. Do you know whats the greatest part about them? Its all voluntary. If something irritates you you can just click a different link.

Sure it might be a little silly for people to ask how to do amp mods when they have never even soldered before let alone know anything about electronics but without the forums those same people are just as likely to strike out on there own atleast with the forums theres a chance someone might say dont do it and they listen. Everyone has gotta start somewhere. Encouraging people to learn and get into the hobby is what will keep it thriving

I dunno but anyways its all off topic ill leave this to the VH nuts.

 

[Phostenix]

Re: History Lesson

Something of a contradiction but whatever.

There's a difference between genuinely wanting to learn something & just wanting someone else to do the work for you. I don't mind teaching a man to fish.

Really whats the difference between someone using a book for a resource or a forum?

It depends on what they are seeking. I'm not talking about people who are learning things & looking for clarification or pointers. I'm talking about people who don't make an attempt to learn the basics of something first. The search function is also very helpful.

Its like the people that tell you to google something there are people out there that dont know how to do it.

How do people who don't know how to use google find guitar electronics forums?

 

[Lazarus1140]

Re: History Lesson

Eddie who?

 

[Jakek5150]

Re: History Lesson

I hear Jeff Beck as a major influence on EVH. Listen to Beck's 'Going Down' (1970?) with all those frantic little riffs and whammy bar, and you have the template for what EVH did. Remember too, Van Halen came out at a time when flashy guitarwork was not very popular; disco dominated the airwaves in the late '70's and the emerging punk/new wave was anti-lead guitar. Van Halen was going to stand out, not for being different than their predecessors, but for being different from what was going on at the time, which was a lowpoint in music history. VH were a novelty and seemed much better at the time, but for many of us, the glitter has worn off and we see them as overrated. They were very commercial and pop-oriented. Look at all the MTV videos of the whole band constantly posing for the cameras. I guess the hype still lives on.

Because 20+ years of success means that you're a novelty. :eyecrazy:

And who are the "many" that see them as overrated? I guess when a band is as big as they are, there are going to be more haters. Just like how there will be more people who will hate on Pink Floyd or Led Zeppelin or The Rolling Stones.

What were they supposed to do in MTV videos? Stand off to the side? Plus they never denied their more pop-rock sound. They had great melodies and hooks and that's part of the reason why they are so great.


For as much of a VH fan I am, the threads analyzing his sound are pretty tiresome.