How are "Duncan Designed" Cheapified?

[flmason]

Was looking at the Duncan Designed and Custom Shop pages, looking for the '78 and a 10-11K-ish Duncan equivalent for the Fred (S-Deco maybe?) and noticed the Duncan Designed are stated as being for guitars in the $300-800 range and US Duncans are for $800 and above.

Seeing as how the are delineating by price, any idea what corners get cut?

Obviously overseas labor costs is one.

 

[LtKojak]

Re: How are "Duncan Designed" Cheapified?

These p'ups are OEM only, so quantity discount is applied.

 

[blueman335]

Re: How are "Duncan Designed" Cheapified?

I use Seymour Duncan's in my '$300 to $800' guitars. The sounds have more depth & definition, definitely worth the extra cost. I used to have Duncan Designed PU's, but they can't compare.

I suspect that like most Asian-made PU's, none of the materials are of the quality of American or European-made PU's. Of crucial importance is the tension and pattern of the windings, and this is super-secret stuff that PU winders keep to themselves. I asked Zhang about this, and said Asian PU's have a tight uniform wind, that looks nice but doesn't do much for tone quality. Just winding a PU to the same ohms reading as another doesn't mean anything. You need to use the same tension and pattern, and I doubt Duncan has given that info to any foreign country; it's too easy for another Asian company to hire Duncan-trained PU winders and mass produce PU's and undercut Duncan's sales. These are closely guarded trade secrets, like the formula for Coke and the Colonel's blend of 11 herbs and spices. This info isn't going to circulate.

Duncan Designed PU's produce sound, but you won't get the quality of tone of a Seymour Duncan PU. If cost is an issue, buy used SD's.

 

[Empty Pockets]

Re: How are "Duncan Designed" Cheapified?

*wonders if blueman will ever apply the logic he uses on his nice pickups to his guitars* :smokin:

 

[Vistelof]

Re: How are "Duncan Designed" Cheapified?

Can someone tell me where can I get a new Duncan designed PU's and how much cost?
I have to buy a larger quantity?

 

[korovamilkdud]

Re: How are "Duncan Designed" Cheapified?

Honestly, I played a Duncan Designed JB in a store on Long Island once. It sucked. It was nothing like a real JB.

 

[Vistelof]

Re: How are "Duncan Designed" Cheapified?

I agree, but .............. i would like to know the price because I want them installed in my guitars, which will be produced by serial and slightly cheaper.
Where can I buy them?

 

[blueman335]

Re: How are "Duncan Designed" Cheapified?

*wonders if blueman will ever apply the logic he uses on his nice pickups to his guitars* :smokin:

Well, the difference in cost between a new Asian PU and a used American one is negligible. The difference in cost between an Epi LP Std and Custom or 335 vs Gibsons is around 2 or 3 thousand dollars. When you deduct the price of the PU's and hardware from the Gibsons, you're paying a couple grand for wood, finish, and frets.

I can put in Duncan, Fralin, or Gibson PU's, do some tweaking, and get some very good tones (which I get compliments on every time I play out), and do this for several hundred dollars in total (with a used Epi and used PU's). I can't see spending two or three grand more for a slight improvement in tone. And there's no way I'm taking a couple high-end guitars and amp to the average bar gig, to play on a crowded stage for a crowd of inebriated people in a smoke-filled room with bad acoustics. That ain't no place for a Gibson LPC or 355. My guitars are tools and they do what I need them to.

 

[blueman335]

Re: How are "Duncan Designed" Cheapified?

Technically speaking, is 'cheapified' a word?

 

[ehdwuld]

Re: How are "Duncan Designed" Cheapified?

I agree, but .............. i would like to know the price because I want them installed in my guitars, which will be produced by serial and slightly cheaper.
Where can I buy them?

I dont think they are available to the public
just to guitar manufacturers

if you have a friend at Fender or somewhere they may be able to get you one

there was some poster here last week, who claimed to "have a source"
but I cant remember who it was

 

[dlc1953]

Re: How are "Duncan Designed" Cheapified?

Well, the difference in cost between a new Asian PU and a used American one is negligible. The difference in cost between an Epi LP Std and Custom or 335 vs Gibsons is around 2 or 3 thousand dollars. When you deduct the price of the PU's and hardware from the Gibsons, you're paying a couple grand for wood, finish, and frets.

I can put in Duncan, Fralin, or Gibson PU's, do some tweaking, and get some very good tones (which I get compliments on every time I play out), and do this for several hundred dollars in total (with a used Epi and used PU's). I can't see spending two or three grand more for a slight improvement in tone. And there's no way I'm taking a couple high-end guitars and amp to the average bar gig, to play on a crowded stage for a crowd of inebriated people in a smoke-filled room with bad acoustics. That ain't no place for a Gibson LPC or 355. My guitars are tools and they do what I need them to.

Got to agree with this logic and experience say's it's so. My 3000 came with SD copy PUPs neck sounded somethin like a 59 but a bad copy of. Still workin on getting my PUP tone where I want it but in the end I may have 7 or 8 hundred in it with new bridge and the thing plays great,did same with MIM Strat new PUPs some new pot's /push pull's etc may have 800.00 in it and it's all the tone I wanted from a Strat.

 

[anewdefguitarist]

Re: How are "Duncan Designed" Cheapified?

i dont know if anyone else said this yet, i ran outta time, im on my lunchbreak... u can buy duncan designed on musiciansfriend and at guitar center. both places suck like a hoover but hey, they're there.

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: How are "Duncan Designed" Cheapified?

I asked Zhang about this, and said Asian PU's have a tight uniform wind, that looks nice but doesn't do much for tone quality.

DISCLAIMER: That's of those I've seen, and the thing I see in common with pickups that have blah 2-dimensional tone that I've done biopsies on anyway, and I haven't seen them all.

 

[JOLLY]

Re: How are "Duncan Designed" Cheapified?

You can find those pickups (Duncan Designed) all day long on Ebay for $20-$30 or so.

 

[dominus]

Re: How are "Duncan Designed" Cheapified?

I use Seymour Duncan's in my '$300 to $800' guitars. The sounds have more depth & definition, definitely worth the extra cost. I used to have Duncan Designed PU's, but they can't compare.

I suspect that like most Asian-made PU's, none of the materials are of the quality of American or European-made PU's. Of crucial importance is the tension and pattern of the windings, and this is super-secret stuff that PU winders keep to themselves. I asked Zhang about this, and said Asian PU's have a tight uniform wind, that looks nice but doesn't do much for tone quality. Just winding a PU to the same ohms reading as another doesn't mean anything. You need to use the same tension and pattern, and I doubt Duncan has given that info to any foreign country; it's too easy for another Asian company to hire Duncan-trained PU winders and mass produce PU's and undercut Duncan's sales. These are closely guarded trade secrets, like the formula for Coke and the Colonel's blend of 11 herbs and spices. This info isn't going to circulate.

Duncan Designed PU's produce sound, but you won't get the quality of tone of a Seymour Duncan PU. If cost is an issue, buy used SD's.

How many times has Evan come in and debunked this?

http://www.seymourduncan.com/products/duncan-designed/

Built to our specifications. Built for tone.

The Duncan Designed line of pickups was started in 1995 at the request of several of our larger original equipment manufacturer ("OEM") customers who wanted to offer a pickup tied-in to the Duncan identity on their mid-level instruments. While USA-made Seymour Duncan and Basslines pickups are intended to fit on instruments with list prices over US$800, the Korean-built Duncan Designed pickups are intended for OEM use on guitars and basses with retail prices between US$300 and $800. The Duncan Designed club members include Squier, Jackson, ESP Ltd, Schecter Diamond Series, Daisy Rock, Hamer, Aria Pro II and Samick's Greg Bennett series.

There are currently several humbuckers available in the Duncan Designed range, each of which is neck or bridge position-calibrated and was modeled after a USA-built model.

and

Duncan Performer pickups are a mid-level brand of pickups exclusive to Guitar Center stores. These pickups were designed in our Santa Barbara factory and are built by hand to our spec in Korea's finest pickup workshop. Because they use Korean materials and labor, we're able to bring them to market at a lower price point. They're designed to appeal to an entry-level or mid-level player who wouldn't otherwise be exposed to the notion that changing pickups can greatly improve a guitarist's tone.
"Duncan Performer" pickups basically the same pickups as the "Duncan Designed" OEM pickups that are found on select Jackson, Hamer, ESP and Schecter instruments, just packaged for over-the-counter sale.

and

If a pickup says "Seymour Duncan" or "Basslines" or "Antiquity" or "Benedetto" on it, it's made in our Santa Barbara factory. If it says "Duncan Performer" or "Duncan Designed" then it's made in our Korean factory. (BTW, all "Duncan Performer" pickups are tested and packed in Santa Barbara).

I've compared a JB with an HB-102b and a Distortion with an HB-103b, and they're really close. One of my favorite pickups is the HB-108b, both stock and with an A8 magnet installed. It has the looks of the Invader with the sound of the Distortion. (Favorite pickups, PERIOD. Better than EMGs, Seymour Duncans, Dimarzios, Lace, etc. for what I need.)

Duncan Designed and Duncan Performer pickups ARE Duncan pickups made in Korea (to keep the price down) to Duncan specs.

 

[TheLivingDead]

Re: How are "Duncan Designed" Cheapified?

I've had a bunch of DD's before. Distortion sets, Hot Rail copies, Invader copies. They were all pretty damn good. I think for the money you can't beat the tone. GFS might come close in that price range.

 

[IanBallard]

Re: How are "Duncan Designed" Cheapified?

DISCLAIMER: That's of those I've seen, and the thing I see in common with pickups that have blah 2-dimensional tone that I've done biopsies on anyway, and I haven't seen them all.

That's a good point. The stock humbucker in my old Chinese Squier, insounded surprisingly good to me. Years later I broke her open to reveal a sloppy mess of uneven wire wrapping. Sometimes, I would assume, near-slave labor is cheaper than a machine that does perfect winds and the results are what you'd see from days of old. Maybe I shouldn't have ruined that pickup!

 

[flmason]

Re: How are "Duncan Designed" Cheapified?

How many times has Evan come in and debunked this?

http://www.seymourduncan.com/products/duncan-designed/



and



and



I've compared a JB with an HB-102b and a Distortion with an HB-103b, and they're really close. One of my favorite pickups is the HB-108b, both stock and with an A8 magnet installed. It has the looks of the Invader with the sound of the Distortion. (Favorite pickups, PERIOD. Better than EMGs, Seymour Duncans, Dimarzios, Lace, etc. for what I need.)

Duncan Designed and Duncan Performer pickups ARE Duncan pickups made in Korea (to keep the price down) to Duncan specs.

That second quote is the one that led to the question.

Just because they are "Duncan Spec" doesn't say they are good nor identical specs with cheaper labor. It does say "Korean materials"... so nothing here says something concrete like:

"Duncan Designed use parallel winding and a lower grade of copper wire and cheaper or different formulations of bobbins and different grades of metals and magnets"...

What we have above is what I'd call marketing copy designed to let you believe what you want about the differences.

 

[blueman335]

Re: How are "Duncan Designed" Cheapified?

Just because they are "Duncan Spec" doesn't say they are good nor identical specs with cheaper labor. It does say "Korean materials"... so nothing here says something concrete like:

"Duncan Designed use parallel winding and a lower grade of copper wire and cheaper or different formulations of bobbins and different grades of metals and magnets"...

What we have above is what I'd call marketing copy designed to let you believe what you want about the differences.

Thank you. They do not sound the same as real Seymours to me. But if you're playing with a lot of distortion and effects, thru an inepxensive solid state amp, you just may not hear a difference. Play clean thru a good tube amp and you will.

 

[GuitarStv]

Re: How are "Duncan Designed" Cheapified?

My only experience with duncan designed are the bass pickups in my Squier Jazz Bass . . . they sound good enough that I don't want to replace them.