How did Jimmy Page get his raw, saturated live sound?
- Thread starter astrozombie
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beaubrummels
Well-known member
Re: How did Jimmy Page get his raw, saturated live sound?
That doesn't stun me at all. You can make 'that' sound with various kinds of gear and setups, if you match guitars, amps, tubes, speakers, cabs and various things just right. For example, putting a Mullard 10M in V1 and Teslas in the power section takes my JCM almost back to that Plexi sound I heard. And I have been able to approach that 68 tone I heard with a SansAmp PSA-1 through either an Orange AD-50 into a Randall 1x12 and/or a Vox AC30 that were set to run clean as just a P.A. for the SansAmp. I've also gotten there using the Mullard 10M and a Tesla in a SuperBaby through the Randall 1x12.
The original post was questioning how can a vintage amp make modern sounds - but it's really the other way around, because lots of 'modern' gear (like the ADA) was designed to replicate that vintage sound (at it's hottest, in most cases.) But guys who haven't experienced standing in front of an original vintage stack don't realize that a fair amount of modern gear isn't worlds apart, though there are some sweet details that have gotten lost or compromised compared to the original. But you can get really close - hence the OP wonderment of why a vintage set up sounds modern.
That doesn't stun me at all. You can make 'that' sound with various kinds of gear and setups, if you match guitars, amps, tubes, speakers, cabs and various things just right. For example, putting a Mullard 10M in V1 and Teslas in the power section takes my JCM almost back to that Plexi sound I heard. And I have been able to approach that 68 tone I heard with a SansAmp PSA-1 through either an Orange AD-50 into a Randall 1x12 and/or a Vox AC30 that were set to run clean as just a P.A. for the SansAmp. I've also gotten there using the Mullard 10M and a Tesla in a SuperBaby through the Randall 1x12.
The original post was questioning how can a vintage amp make modern sounds - but it's really the other way around, because lots of 'modern' gear (like the ADA) was designed to replicate that vintage sound (at it's hottest, in most cases.) But guys who haven't experienced standing in front of an original vintage stack don't realize that a fair amount of modern gear isn't worlds apart, though there are some sweet details that have gotten lost or compromised compared to the original. But you can get really close - hence the OP wonderment of why a vintage set up sounds modern.
HTT
New member
Re: How did Jimmy Page get his raw, saturated live sound?
From my experience of having physically been at a LZ concert, the live sound was not good. At. All. It is understandable. The acoustics of most stadiums suck. If you are hearing good tones in a video or recording of a concert, it is due to post recording treatment. Another thing to consider is at the concert I attended that Page was or looked wasted. He was gulping out of a bottle of, it looked like, Jack Daniels. For most people, being wasted means worse playing. But what a concert! I always maintain that LZ were mind blowing stage entertainers and then musical geniuses in the studio.
Answering the OP, sorry to put it bluntly, you are chasing a mirage if you think Page really sounded as good live as the recordings you hear of live performances.
From my experience of having physically been at a LZ concert, the live sound was not good. At. All. It is understandable. The acoustics of most stadiums suck. If you are hearing good tones in a video or recording of a concert, it is due to post recording treatment. Another thing to consider is at the concert I attended that Page was or looked wasted. He was gulping out of a bottle of, it looked like, Jack Daniels. For most people, being wasted means worse playing. But what a concert! I always maintain that LZ were mind blowing stage entertainers and then musical geniuses in the studio.
Answering the OP, sorry to put it bluntly, you are chasing a mirage if you think Page really sounded as good live as the recordings you hear of live performances.
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crusty philtrum
Vintageologist
Re: How did Jimmy Page get his raw, saturated live sound?
27th February 1972, at Sydney showground, Australia. I was at this gig, and everything about the sound was stunning. I remember Jimmy had a bunch of various heads on single 4 x 12 cabs.
27th February 1972, at Sydney showground, Australia. I was at this gig, and everything about the sound was stunning. I remember Jimmy had a bunch of various heads on single 4 x 12 cabs.
crusty philtrum
Vintageologist
Re: How did Jimmy Page get his raw, saturated live sound?
Such things were normal in my formative days in the early '70s. Big old non-master valve (tube) amps cranked, maybe at best with some kind of primitive lil booster in front.
The problem is that since then, most of us can no longer play at such volumes, and the market has been filled with gadgets to emulate (and complicate) what was actually a very simple thing, there was no magic. Now, if you want to get those kind of sounds (as I still do, because i come from that great era), ya just get a smaller tube amp and crank it. Guitar, tube amp turned up, and play the snot out of it.
No mystery whatsoever. Ya just have to put your balls on the line.
(btw, the best way to do it would be to listen to a lot of Pagey, and play a lot in that style ... unplugged. Work at getting close to those sounds without an amp. It goes a long way to getting those classic guitar sounds and styles working).
Such things were normal in my formative days in the early '70s. Big old non-master valve (tube) amps cranked, maybe at best with some kind of primitive lil booster in front.
The problem is that since then, most of us can no longer play at such volumes, and the market has been filled with gadgets to emulate (and complicate) what was actually a very simple thing, there was no magic. Now, if you want to get those kind of sounds (as I still do, because i come from that great era), ya just get a smaller tube amp and crank it. Guitar, tube amp turned up, and play the snot out of it.
No mystery whatsoever. Ya just have to put your balls on the line.
(btw, the best way to do it would be to listen to a lot of Pagey, and play a lot in that style ... unplugged. Work at getting close to those sounds without an amp. It goes a long way to getting those classic guitar sounds and styles working).
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blueman335
Mojo's Minions
Re: How did Jimmy Page get his raw, saturated live sound?
And what a style it is. I'm still blown away by LZ I and II (and I was a teenager when they came out).
And what a style it is. I'm still blown away by LZ I and II (and I was a teenager when they came out).
Securb
One of Jerry's Kids
astrozombie
KatyPerryologist
Re: How did Jimmy Page get his raw, saturated live sound?
After jamming to various Zeppelin tunes with my les paul through my DSL, I can confirm the Page sound is mostly due to attitude, it really is all in the hands. The Herco picks I'm using don't hurt!
After jamming to various Zeppelin tunes with my les paul through my DSL, I can confirm the Page sound is mostly due to attitude, it really is all in the hands. The Herco picks I'm using don't hurt!
F
Funkfingers
Guest
Re: How did Jimmy Page get his raw, saturated live sound?
Forget Herco plectra. Try playing using Tarot cards. Get into the mood by smokin' the works of Aleister Crowley.
For maximum realism, teeter about the stage on stacked heel boots whilst blind drunk.
Forget Herco plectra. Try playing using Tarot cards. Get into the mood by smokin' the works of Aleister Crowley.
For maximum realism, teeter about the stage on stacked heel boots whilst blind drunk.
Securb
One of Jerry's Kids
Re: How did Jimmy Page get his raw, saturated live sound?
So much is lost on your generation
After jamming to various Zeppelin tunes with my les paul through my DSL, I can confirm the Page sound is mostly due to attitude, it really is all in the hands. The Herco picks I'm using don't hurt!
So much is lost on your generation
beaubrummels
Well-known member
Re: How did Jimmy Page get his raw, saturated live sound?
The realist in me sees a mar across the photo, but the nostalgic romantic in me sees a haze of smoke about three to four rows back. I'm sure that would have helped the live tone also.
27th February 1972, at Sydney showground, Australia. I was at this gig, and everything about the sound was stunning. I remember Jimmy had a bunch of various heads on single 4 x 12 cabs.
The realist in me sees a mar across the photo, but the nostalgic romantic in me sees a haze of smoke about three to four rows back. I'm sure that would have helped the live tone also.
astrozombie
KatyPerryologist
Re: How did Jimmy Page get his raw, saturated live sound?
*looks in mirror* i think I'm getting them just fine brosef
*looks in mirror* i think I'm getting them just fine brosef
F
Funkfingers
Guest
Re: How did Jimmy Page get his raw, saturated live sound?
The sounds or the leisure chemicals? :banghead:
The sounds or the leisure chemicals? :banghead:
GoldenVulture
Braindeadologist
Re: How did Jimmy Page get his raw, saturated live sound?
Kooyong , Melb. 72. Great view from backstage.
I was there very hash stoned.I'm down in that big half circle in front of the stage.:chairfall
Kooyong , Melb. 72. Great view from backstage.
I was there very hash stoned.I'm down in that big half circle in front of the stage.:chairfall
GoldenVulture
Braindeadologist
Re: How did Jimmy Page get his raw, saturated live sound?
searched - zeppelin kooyong 72 -
found it on the web.
searched - zeppelin kooyong 72 -
Demanic
PenultimateTone Member
Re: How did Jimmy Page get his raw, saturated live sound?
Great tone starts not in the speaker, not in the amp, not in the guitar, not even in the fingers upon the string; great tone starts in the mind of the musician who plays it. All the rest are a result of such.
Great tone starts not in the speaker, not in the amp, not in the guitar, not even in the fingers upon the string; great tone starts in the mind of the musician who plays it. All the rest are a result of such.
astrozombie
KatyPerryologist
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