How did you learn to improvise?

BlackhawkRise

Active member
Right now I'm trying to move from playing songs to coming up with my own material. The only issue is there are so many different ways to improvise that I'm kind of blinded by the options. More or less here's what I've done in order

1: Applying rythmns and embellishments to cowboy chords (eg, suspending a chord only for a beat or two before a chord change). Also I'll group in this step, basic arpeggios by hitting chords one string at a time in various orders.

2: Repeat step one but using various CAGED positions for each chord

3: Creating simple lead lines by quickly switching through triads based off those CAGED positions.


What was you guy's paths and where do I go from here?
 
Right now I'm trying to move from playing songs to coming up with my own material. The only issue is there are so many different ways to improvise that I'm kind of blinded by the options. More or less here's what I've done in order

1: Applying rythmns and embellishments to cowboy chords (eg, suspending a chord only for a beat or two before a chord change). Also I'll group in this step, basic arpeggios by hitting chords one string at a time in various orders.

2: Repeat step one but using various CAGED positions for each chord

3: Creating simple lead lines by quickly switching through triads based off those CAGED positions.


What was you guy's paths and where do I go from here?

Well done! There are many factors that come together with a great improvised lead, however, one of the most important is seeing the chord tones. It makes melodies far more accessible and tends to limit rambling. You are already way, way ahead of most! keep the thinking cap and your ear going and you will go far.

Speaking of rambling, when you're starting off, I suggest avoiding pentatonics. They are certainly great spice once you know what you're doing, and I've got some students that arent going anywhere else, so at least they can play something :-)

But since you're taking your time, first learn your major scales in all positions. This is much easier than it sounds because unlike other instruments, guitar patterns simply move up and down the fretboard. I won't go into the detail, because you can find this on hundreds of websites, but you have essentially three fingerings off the e string and one off the a string that will cover a good portion of the neck.

And then when you need them, the pentatonics in those positions are easy.. just leave out the four and the seven. It's much easier to remove notes, then to add the notes that your fingers aren't used to playing.

There's one more form that helps you complete most of the neck.. The mixolydian mode, which is also the dominant mode.. it's much, much easier than people make out. The one you need to start is exactly the same as the "under" major scale except the 7th is lowered. Again it's really easy, here's how that would work.

The under major scale starts with your pinky on the 5th fret and your first finger on the second fret of the e string.. let's talk about the first string for this example. In this position, you get an A scale if you do the do re me thing down from the 5th fret. If you play the same intervals from the f sharp, you are playing the relative minor, another extremely useful scale, so two scales in one.

So once you know that, you can shift that exact same pattern up to the 12th fret. Your pinky is now on the octave e and the only difference between the A major scale you just learned and the e dominant mode is the d note. Because e is the 5th of a, it's the dominant of a and requires the lowed seventh that were used to seeing with dominant chords.

So you come down the scale from e to d, a whole step, as opposed to the half step coming down from the major scale. This isn't gobbledygook if you go put your fingers on a fretboard and do it a few times. once you have the majors and this dominant mode, you have covered most of the neck.

There are tons of other patterns and scales and modes that I use to connect everything I just mentioned... But they are all gravy... you can do just about anything you want if you have your majors and this one dominant mode. Combined with your knowledge of chords, you may already have the neck at this point.

Someone already mentioned stealing riffs... This is actually one of the best ways to find good pentatonic movements, especially in jazz and blues.

And then get your hands on every melody you can possibly think of. When you play a song melody, you will note that it crosses over many of the chords that you can already see, but most also favor scales and you be able to see the passing tones that are in between and the inharmonic notes that are not within the scale. Since you will already understand scale fingerings, you can easily remember that I need to "flatten the second" for this particular lead. The more melodies you play, the more you will see.

When I was a kid, one of the best bands to copy was Boston. Schultz's leads are not hard to play, the complexity is really due to the harmonized leads that are overdubbed. Pick any one of his riffs or even one of his big melodic leads, like the middle of don't look back, and learn it by ear, or off of YouTube, or reading tabs...whatever it takes. Combined with your knowledge of chords, you will quickly see that he uses a lot of major scales... Again it's easy to simplify to two note riffs and Pentatonics once you've have the scales but if you push into this for a couple of months the fretboard will come alive.

Last but not least, continue using your ears and mind. Approximately half my students come in saying I don't want to learn theory, I only want to play by ear and the other half come in saying I mainly want to understand theory. Of course, reality is smack in the middle of the two. We need both over time to be good so you might as well learn both from the beginning :-)

So keep up the good work and let us know how it goes!
 
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Playing in Black Churchs first and then later with a bunch of folk who do pure improv spontaneous worship. Have played 3 hours or more sessions where there was no song list and most of the time it was pure spontaneous improv.
Here are a few examples where we had no idea where we were going till we got there LOL.
All these were recorded on a little Sony personal recorder just sitting on a chair in a Church. These Songs were never played again.
https://app.box.com/s/hi3so3xhrf4m758wxbvw
This one is obvious what happened same little recorder
https://app.box.com/s/si1y0vger50vph3b2no0
Here is another one with a completely different group of players
https://app.box.com/s/la36ozti7k2bm6ob8u4b4r13fdjoe9i4
Another event and group of players
https://app.box.com/s/7p4frzt3syef8yxe9ocpl94s2z5w2j1d
And with yet another group of players everything here is pure improvise written on the spot and unplanned. I'm in a circle of folks who do this stuff for hours at a time .
https://app.box.com/s/hcffmbpity6127puiafl
.
 
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Purely by ear. No theory, no thinking about what comes next.. :bigthumb:

THIS! If you truly play real improv your instrument should be come your voice. It should flow naturally as if the instrument becomes part of your body as the music flows through you. If your thinking more about theory ect that just naturally flowing with the music you will never really connect with it. Hard to describe unless you have truly experienced this.
Like this clip. In our area we were experiencing a historic drought and as we were playing here you suddenly feel things change as you hear the sound of rain on the roof of the church. We on stage could not hear this but just felt some thing shift suddenly. With the camera up in the balcony it caught this though with the sound of rain just as everything shifts musically. Just one of those moments in improv that are special. I have hours and hours of this stuff and always record these events because you just never know.
 
Here is another cool clip. Note the girl with the shawl in the crowd by the camera playing the Rams Horn Shofar in key with us. We never heard it up on stage but the camera caught it and I think it was very cool! Still have no idea who she was! Just another night of pure spontaneous improv in my world.
 
Here is another clip with my old buddy Wess playing Native American wood flute over some pure spontaneous improv stuff that is really cool. Wess is also an absolute monster player on a B3!
 
Right now I'm trying to move from playing songs to coming up with my own material. The only issue is there are so many different ways to improvise that I'm kind of blinded by the options. More or less here's what I've done in order

1: Applying rythmns and embellishments to cowboy chords (eg, suspending a chord only for a beat or two before a chord change). Also I'll group in this step, basic arpeggios by hitting chords one string at a time in various orders.

2: Repeat step one but using various CAGED positions for each chord

3: Creating simple lead lines by quickly switching through triads based off those CAGED positions.


What was you guy's paths and where do I go from here?

Solid way to start.

You can also learn all 5 pentatonic positions. This is a way to think of lead over the CAGED chordal positions.

minorpentatonicpositions.gif


The most simple way to start improvising is improvising using 1 scale over 1 chord or a simple chord progression.

Next step after that is to learn to mix scales and sounds over this 1 backing chord or simple backing progression.

Next step after that is to solo outlining changes. But start with just 1 chord backing.

Raw materials for melody are composed of scales, arpeggios, intervals, and chromatics.
 
I learned a lot about music theory. Then I worked on my technique so I could play most of what I hear. All the while, I was listening to great improvisers on many different instruments.

The trifecta. You have to know what you're doing - theory. You have to physically be able to play what you want - technique. And you have to be able to hear what other players do and hear what you want to do.
 
This is how I learned to improvise. Playing in the Black Pentecostal churches where the pastor would sing a sermon and you would just grab hold of it and flow with him like here.
 
The trifecta. You have to know what you're doing - theory. You have to physically be able to play what you want - technique. And you have to be able to hear what other players do and hear what you want to do.

Spot on man and listening with the other players are doing is a real key. Also it's critical to learn what and when NOT to play! Add to the whole don't be the star work with the flow around you and become part of the whole.
 
There is a free course from Berklee online on Jazz Improvisation. It is taught by Gary Burton, who is a legend.

Learn the basic concepts of improvisation from Gary Burton, one of the most renowned improvisers in the jazz world, including the mental, melodic, and harmonic processes that contribute to the instinctive skills that an improviser puts to use when taking a solo.

While many people are fans of jazz and understand that musicians are often “making up” the notes they are playing during a performance, most people—often including musicians, themselves, who are beginning to learn improvising—aren’t clear about what exact processes take place to enable this to happen. The purpose of this course is to introduce the basic concepts of modern improvisation and how to go about mastering the different musical and mental skills involved. Course author Gary Burton codifies a sought-after approach to improvisation that has been at the core of Berklee College of Music's curriculum for decades. Students who complete this course will know what to practice and how to practice the various aspects of improvising, in addition to understanding how the improviser spontaneously communicates to the listeners through their musical creations.

https://www.coursera.org/learn/jazz-improvisation
 
THIS! If you truly play real improv your instrument should be come your voice. It should flow naturally as if the instrument becomes part of your body as the music flows through you. If your thinking more about theory ect that just naturally flowing with the music you will never really connect with it. Hard to describe unless you have truly experienced this.
Like this clip. In our area we were experiencing a historic drought and as we were playing here you suddenly feel things change as you hear the sound of rain on the roof of the church. We on stage could not hear this but just felt some thing shift suddenly. With the camera up in the balcony it caught this though with the sound of rain just as everything shifts musically. Just one of those moments in improv that are special. I have hours and hours of this stuff and always record these events because you just never know.

Yep, you (or me or anyone) as the musician are the Jedi. You need to be one with the force, feel it and channel it into your instrument. That's how simple it is :D
 
I learned to improvise by simply jamming with people, and most of the time it was with others that had years more experience than me.
 
I learned to improvise by simply jamming with people, and most of the time it was with others that had years more experience than me.

Yarp

I wasn't comfortable with improvising until I was thrown into the fire with 3 guys several decades older than me. We played together weekly for 3 years and always encouraged each other to try new stuff. Lots of encouragement and positivity.

I did learn a good trick though. When its your turn to solo, start with one note. Pick it in different rhythms until you have a groove... then add a second note but keep the groove going. Etc. That still helps me today to "open up" so to speak. There's too much pressure to bash out an amazing solo immediately sometimes. The single note groove technique lets you be in charge and get comfortable with the spotlight and gives you time to figure out where you want to go with your solo. Rhythmic? Melodic? High, low? Fast, slow? Etc. Start with the groove and the rest will be smoove.

Another trick! Put on a backing track and sing a solo. Sometimes improvised melodies come more naturally from your voice.
 
Another trick! Put on a backing track and sing a solo. Sometimes improvised melodies come more naturally from your voice.

This is a great one -also referring back to my listen to Bebop and Free Jazz comment -Listening to Jazz singers is another way to form melodic connections in your brain.
 
With me, It's all about being free, not caged..

You need to be able/willing to feel it and let it lead you/take you where it takes you.....

Whether you're playing slow...


or nippy...


And that's a gift ..you either have it or you don't...sad truth.
 
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