How did you learn to improvise?

[zionstrat]

Everybody learns differently, so there is no single process that always works, but here are a few things to think about.

Pentatonics-
Everybody learns pentatonics at some point. However, they sit exactly on top of a major scale. If you're going to take the time to learn the different pentatonic positions, why not learn the major scale that is right there instead? it's easy to take away the four and the seven if you want a more bluesy sound, but you also have the option to include four and seven when you want more linear lines.

Another advantage of major scales is the 3-4 and 7 to 8 intervals that I just mentioned. They are the only half steps within a scale and are very easy to see when you're moving across the fretboard. It's much easier to see the half steps, to figure out where you're going, while pentatonics skip the half steps so you lose quite a bit of visual information.

Playing by ear-
This is crucial and can actually be very hard for classical guitarists and keyboardist who are not familiar with improvisation. So do it do it do it.

However, if you only play by ear, you can get in big trouble real quick. I think one of the earlier by ear examples was worship music where it's quite common to have modal progressions. A great classic example is All I Need with Danny Chambers and Lincoln Brewster.. incredibly talented musicians.

If you try to solo over this, or any similar song, you can easily be pulled into a trap that hurts the ears... The intro and chorus are in A, but the verse is lydian. As you would expect, it's written beautifully so you don't notice the transition...

But all of a sudden you have a d sharp where you were playing a d natural before and by the time you realize you screwed up, the next cord is coming and it's very hard to make it look like you knew what you were doing

Again, these are all different sides of the same coin. However when somebody already understands chord tones it can be a tremendous advantage to hook them together with scales.. pentatonics are pretty much automatic because they are simply a subset and you have the knowledge to avoid embarrassing notes when you add in the ear

 

[Ascension]

Everybody learns differently, so there is no single process that always works, but here are a few things to think about.

Pentatonics-
Everybody learns pentatonics at some point. However, they sit exactly on top of a major scale. If you're going to take the time to learn the different pentatonic positions, why not learn the major scale that is right there instead? it's easy to take away the four and the seven if you want a more bluesy sound, but you also have the option to include four and seven when you want more linear lines.

Another advantage of major scales is the 3-4 and 7 to 8 intervals that I just mentioned. They are the only half steps within a scale and are very easy to see when you're moving across the fretboard. It's much easier to see the half steps, to figure out where you're going, while pentatonics skip the half steps so you lose quite a bit of visual information.

Playing by ear-
This is crucial and can actually be very hard for classical guitarists and keyboardist who are not familiar with improvisation. So do it do it do it.

However, if you only play by ear, you can get in big trouble real quick. I think one of the earlier by ear examples was worship music where it's quite common to have modal progressions. A great classic example is All I Need with Danny Chambers and Lincoln Brewster.. incredibly talented musicians.

If you try to solo over this, or any similar song, you can easily be pulled into a trap that hurts the ears... The intro and chorus are in A, but the verse is lydian. As you would expect, it's written beautifully so you don't notice the transition...

But all of a sudden you have a d sharp where you were playing a d natural before and by the time you realize you screwed up, the next cord is coming and it's very hard to make it look like you knew what you were doing

Again, these are all different sides of the same coin. However when somebody already understands chord tones it can be a tremendous advantage to hook them together with scales.. pentatonics are pretty much automatic because they are simply a subset and you have the knowledge to avoid embarrassing notes when you add in the ear

Great insights here! For me I work mostly off the relative minor melodically instead of the 5 note pentatonic and then also work off the major scale working in and out of both. That All I need song your right throws you a curve. Not surprising with whos playing on that clip as every player on that track is an absolute monster. Very deceptive song as sounds easy at first but--. Sorta like this thing from Leonard Jones. I have done a LOT of Morningstar stuff over the years with Jones leading and it's no joke!

 

[zionstrat]

Great insights here! For me I work mostly off the relative minor melodically instead of the 5 note pentatonic and then also work off the major scale working in and out of both. That All I need song your right throws you a curve. Not surprising with whos playing on that clip as every player on that track is an absolute monster. Very deceptive song as sounds easy at first but--. Sorta like this thing from Leonard Jones. I have done a LOT of Morningstar stuff over the years with Jones leading and it's no joke!

Love it!

Yes I would live in harmonic / melodic minor if every song would let me And I especially love major/ minor scales over V i...

 

[Ascension]

With me, It's all about being free, not caged..

You need to be able/willing to feel it and let it lead you/take you where it takes you.....

Whether you're playing slow...

or nippy...

And that's a gift ..you either have it or you don't...sad truth.

Get you here man. It is a gift but it also comes with experience and playing with others. Way to many look at music as some type of competition and want to be a star . Real true musicians have the music in their soul and will play to the flow and the song that is what's very hard to teach if you don't have the heart for it.
I live for those times when things take a turn off the plan and it just gets loose. Like this night playing a community worship thing with a bunch of folks from all over Birmingham and few of us had ever met much less played together before. No egos just a band of brothers getting loose and having some fun.
Like with this off the cuff thangie.

 

[Phantasmagoria]

I think it's actually a more humble approach to let the music lead you. Rather than the other way around. "Tender surrender" so to speak...

As for competion/ego, that's often a wrong assumption. In my case it just gives me a kick, guitar playing in general and playing fast in particular. Speed thrills...it's an adrenaline rush. It's why people drive fast cars..

Not that it's a bad thing per say to take center stage and be a star. If that's what people want and you've got what it takes, why not? No one's going to Yngwie or Vai or Satriani shows 'cause they like the drummer...

As a player you can pull out your guitar (or digereedoo) and improvise without any other music or players to back you up or interact with..it's not a nessessity for improvisation. Of course you can also jam and interact with other players if you prefer to...they're just different ways of going about things ..both totally legit.

In the end everyone's making music 'cause they enjoy it (hopefully). There's no rules or right and wrong way. Being unaccepting of that fact, That's where the real arrogance comes in imo :bigthumb:

 

[NegativeEase]

This guy is going to be an old man trying to read and watch all of these comments before he gets around to actually improvising.:nana:

 

[Securb]

I learned to improvise by simply jamming with people, and most of the time it was with others that had years more experience than me.

That is where I got the roots of improv. My drummer would lay down a beat, the bass player would throw down a groove then I would play over it. Sometimes I would start off with a riff. Playing the blues and R&B jams around Boston was also a master class. At Berklee spontaneous jamming in any style is very common in the classrooms, dorms, and on the sidewalk in front of the school.

 

[Clint 55]

This guy is going to be an old man trying to read and watch all of these comments before he gets around to actually improvising.:nana:

Backing track, box 1.

 

[Phantasmagoria]

Of course we can chat about things all day but nothing beats actually playing your instrument :bigthumb:

 

[Securb]

One of the most important aspects of improvisation has not been touched on, and that is comping. Improving is not playing an extended lead. It is done in an ensemble, and there are times when you will have to comp for others players. In some regards, this is harder because when playing leads, in most cases, you are playing single-note lines. If you play a blues note during a lead it can be a desired effect or resolved quickly. When comping the chord changes need to be found, which can become increasingly difficult as you add instruments. Playing the wrong chord can trip up the soloist and others in the ensemble.

If you are improvising over a standard, comping is very simple, if the improvisation has no or little established form, harmony or melody comping can be challenging. But a very fun challenge.

 

[Phantasmagoria]

Honestly there's nothing that says improvisation has to be done by an ensemble or that an extended solo can't be improvised on the contrary according to the Enclyclopedia Britannica " In essentially monophonic musical cultures, whether Western or non-Western, improvisation has been of paramount importance, if only because successful improvisation is always more readily achieved by soloists than by groups"

https://www.britannica.com/art/improvisation-music

 

[Securb]

Honestly there's nothing that says improvisation has to be done by an ensemble or that an extended solo can't be improvised o

I did not say that improvisation has to be done in an ensemble setting. I said that comping is an important aspect of improvisation that has not been discussed. Even when improvising yourself understanding comping can give you a foundation for the themes you are getting ready to express.

 

[LLL]

LOL

 

[Phantasmagoria]

:dunno:

 

[Securb]

:dunno:

Here is what I am talking about. At the beginning of the clip, I lay down some comping. Once the theme is established, I improvise over the framework that was laid out. Seeing it is one person improvising of course, I have enough room to do whatever I want/need to do. But in the end, I return to the comping theme to tie things back together.

 

[Phantasmagoria]

Yeah I get the recurring theme thing..

You're into it and clearly enjoying yourself, that's all that counts :bigthumb:

 

[Securb]

You're into it and clearly enjoying yourself, that's all that counts :bigthumb:

Isn't that what it is all about? Doing your own thing and keeping a smile on your face.

 

[Demanic]

Here is what I am talking about. At the beginning of the clip, I lay down some comping. Once the theme is established, I improvise over the framework that was laid out. Seeing it is one person improvising of course, I have enough room to do whatever I want/need to do. But in the end, I return to the comping theme to tie things back together.

Love that Tele. And I don't say that very often about Teles.

Sent from my SM-A115A using Tapatalk

 

[Mincer]

Here is what I am talking about. At the beginning of the clip, I lay down some comping. Once the theme is established, I improvise over the framework that was laid out. Seeing it is one person improvising of course, I have enough room to do whatever I want/need to do. But in the end, I return to the comping theme to tie things back together.

Love to hear you loop that progression and play over it!

 

[LLL]

Honestly there's nothing that says improvisation has to be done by an ensemble or that an extended solo can't be improvised on the contrary according to the Enclyclopedia Britannica " In essentially monophonic musical cultures, whether Western or non-Western, improvisation has been of paramount importance, if only because successful improvisation is always more readily achieved by soloists than by groups"

https://www.britannica.com/art/improvisation-music

Succinctly stated.