Aceman
I am your doctor of love!
And this brings up the very important OTHER aspect of improvising. Yes - you are making a "melody". BUT, it is occurring in the context of a Harmony.
How did you learn to improvise?
- Thread starter BlackhawkRise
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And this brings up the very important OTHER aspect of improvising. Yes - you are making a "melody". BUT, it is occurring in the context of a Harmony.
Aceman
I am your doctor of love!
Another note about "improvisation" is that a lot of what you might think was "improvised" can be traced back to noodling sessions, jams, and other 'semi-worked out' stuff that players do.
Lots of studies that had players document their jams and practices, and then "improvise." When analyzed, it turns out a lot is like 90% perspiration and 10% inspiration.
Lots of studies that had players document their jams and practices, and then "improvise." When analyzed, it turns out a lot is like 90% perspiration and 10% inspiration.
Aceman
I am your doctor of love!
I'll mention this...
Pentatonic: Box 1, the extension in Box 2, and Box 5.
Modes: Ionian and Mixolydian
Arpeggios: the 3 Major triads on strings 4/3/2 and 3/2/1 along with the 3 Minor triads on 4/3/2 and 3/2/1
From a technical point - that is not much to learn. But it can get you miles and miles of playing.
Pentatonic: Box 1, the extension in Box 2, and Box 5.
Modes: Ionian and Mixolydian
Arpeggios: the 3 Major triads on strings 4/3/2 and 3/2/1 along with the 3 Minor triads on 4/3/2 and 3/2/1
From a technical point - that is not much to learn. But it can get you miles and miles of playing.
ThreeChordWonder
New member
Demanic
PenultimateTone Member
The harmony arises from the melody, does it not?
What's really interesting are a series of melodies, done in a round, that create shifting harmonies.
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Securb
One of Jerry's Kids
That is precisely what Brian May does with his improved guitar solos live. If there are three repeats in the delay he hits the root and when the root repeats he plays the 3rd over it when the root and 3rd repeat he plays the 5th over those two and goes down a deep harmony rabbit hole with it building those huge lush harmonies. I am just giving a major triad as an example here, Dr. May builds some beautiful and complex chords while doing this.
Check out Briton Rock at about 7:30
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Demanic
PenultimateTone Member
You tell them that.
Their the ones that always run away screaming.
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Demanic
PenultimateTone Member
A lot o folk music works that way.
https://youtu.be/0QdbeM2JWYE
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Aceman
I am your doctor of love!
I submit there is nothing "improvised" about that.
Phantasmagoria
watch where you point that sabre
The thing is if you're playing something different over the same piece of music every time you play it and it's not coming from notation ..you're improvising..
Ideally, if you have the knack for improvising you're going to automatically create something on the fly that will have a bit of a "wow" factor..ie, someting that captures/holds/grabs people's attention using the tools you have at hand whether it's technical dexterity or melody or speed or a nice catchy hook or whammy tricks or w/e...that's what a good improviser needs, not just always being in key and playing this or that suitable/predictable scale or chord....cuz spontaneous or otherwise 'out of the box' playing is often what takes it from safe, boring/run-of-the-mill & mediocre to actually being enjoyable.
The key thing for me is to just always play along to stuff..stuff I hear on TV, youtube, the radio, a song melody in my head or whatever. try and get down what I'm hearing or something close to it & then try and do ****loads of variations of that theme/melody..fast, slow, bluesy,dark, weird or w/e.
In time I stopped thinking about how to go about stuff and it came to me naturally as I was playing (no matter what style or genre....although it would work better with something I liked and was into) It's a practical approach using just my ears that's been hella effective for me :bigthumb:
Ideally, if you have the knack for improvising you're going to automatically create something on the fly that will have a bit of a "wow" factor..ie, someting that captures/holds/grabs people's attention using the tools you have at hand whether it's technical dexterity or melody or speed or a nice catchy hook or whammy tricks or w/e...that's what a good improviser needs, not just always being in key and playing this or that suitable/predictable scale or chord....cuz spontaneous or otherwise 'out of the box' playing is often what takes it from safe, boring/run-of-the-mill & mediocre to actually being enjoyable.
The key thing for me is to just always play along to stuff..stuff I hear on TV, youtube, the radio, a song melody in my head or whatever. try and get down what I'm hearing or something close to it & then try and do ****loads of variations of that theme/melody..fast, slow, bluesy,dark, weird or w/e.
In time I stopped thinking about how to go about stuff and it came to me naturally as I was playing (no matter what style or genre....although it would work better with something I liked and was into) It's a practical approach using just my ears that's been hella effective for me :bigthumb:
Securb
One of Jerry's Kids
So you are trying to tell me a 9:30-minute guitar solo is scripted?
Aceman
I am your doctor of love!
I'm saying he plotted out the scales he planned on using long before he hit the stage. It may not be note-for-note planned out, but he isn't making that up out of his imagination purely on the fly.
I'd like to hear a couple of shows just to see. We may be quibbling over the definition of "improvisation". I'm saying if he does that during Brighton Rock every show - it is not 90% different every night.
Ascension
Well-known member
Spot on to truly improvise you have to go with the flow and some times just work with the melody lines that are natural/ Like here where I get thrown a curve by this pastor during the band introduction at a conference. He calls me out and i just go with the flow. This particular group of players was truly special in how we paled off each other at times. Been to long since we have played together.
Aceman
I am your doctor of love!
Note the similarities here. Not exactly the same thing. But a very similar kind of thing. My point is he didn't wake up and just do that, or most of it. I bet if you had enough of them, you could easily trace the licks, and parts to a core set of stuff he always does.
Securb
One of Jerry's Kids
Even when playing totally off the cuff we are going to play certain passages and phrases that are familiar to us so in a way nothing is truly 100% improvised. The way we put those pieces together in new ways is through improvisation. Playing a 9-minute guitar solo, I think Dr. May relied on quite a bit of improvisation.
Securb
One of Jerry's Kids
Case in point, let's say Slash was playing WTTJ, and instead of his typical solo he decided to do a tapping solo one night. The song itself is unchanged and the same piece of music but the solo is improvised. Would you say Slash was not improvising because 90% of the song remained unchanged?
NegativeEase
New member
Agree, It's all pattern recognition and muscle memory -even if you think you are making something brand new improvised, it is from parts of patterns and motion you have practiced. Most everything is preconceived whether you realize it or not.
The real art of improvisation is hearing what various pattern and motion permutation will be before you go there on the fretboard, also visualizing how it will fit with other instruments playing at that time
Securb
One of Jerry's Kids
If you take some of the most recognizable improved pieces of rock let's say Silver Wheels and Eruption. There are different themes and phrases that are strung together but there is no way Wilson or VanHalen could have stitched those riffs together if they had not played and practiced them many times over and over. Both performances are off-the-cuff improvisations, but both performers are going to build the piece of music based on their prowess of the instrument, song structure, and musical knowledge. Most improv is a variation of a theme. Nancy never played Silver Wheels the same way twice.
Aceman
I am your doctor of love!
Again - I'm arguing against the "romantic" notion of improvisation. I think there are a LOT of people that believe magical melodies and series of notes that are unique and awesome just flow from the creative genius of said improvisers.
As you point out, there is a lot off sweat equity that goes into that stuff. To say there is zero spontaneity or unique creativity or novelty would be completely untrue. However to say it was 90, 75, or perhaps even 50% truly unique would also be false.
And it isn't just scales and arpeggios...as mentioned, this stuff occurs in context. The Brighton Rock one is an example of contextless wankery. He can't really play anything wrong because he isn't playing against anything.
The interesting thing to me, is when someone creates a truly notable melody...however they do it; Worked out and written out, or off the cuff. I'm sure they happen both ways.
I know I'm playing sometimes and go "Whoa - that was cool! Hope I can do it again..."
As you point out, there is a lot off sweat equity that goes into that stuff. To say there is zero spontaneity or unique creativity or novelty would be completely untrue. However to say it was 90, 75, or perhaps even 50% truly unique would also be false.
And it isn't just scales and arpeggios...as mentioned, this stuff occurs in context. The Brighton Rock one is an example of contextless wankery. He can't really play anything wrong because he isn't playing against anything.
The interesting thing to me, is when someone creates a truly notable melody...however they do it; Worked out and written out, or off the cuff. I'm sure they happen both ways.
I know I'm playing sometimes and go "Whoa - that was cool! Hope I can do it again..."
