how do I know what the right amp tone is?

[Coma]

Re: how do I know what the right amp tone is?

I of course didn't mean that an amp has the "right" tone. I rather wanted to know whether I should worry about the spot/angle at which the sound is bad, even if there're other spots with "good" sound (all else being equal, of course). But I see your point. If it sounds good it's good. But it perhaps also depends on whether you practice at home, record via mic or line output, or gig.

I would imagine it becomes an issue only when you record. Live, the sound guy (if there is one) will hopefully tell you how to EQ and where to place your amp or mic it up (provided you're also making use of a PA). But if you record something with a "weak" tone, maybe it will be difficult to keep the guitar tracks from being buried in the mix? I honestly have no idea, though.

 

[BleedingFingertips]

Re: how do I know what the right amp tone is?

Ok, if you're playing in the livingroom, try to stand about 5'-6' in front of your cab. It should give you a better idea. But trying to hear what the audience is hearing is a voodoo party.

Well, in my case 5'-6' are somewhat problematic. I mean that's appr. the distance at which the tone gets fuzzier. But I figured that my speaker is angled, so I would agree with you that a better way to get the tone I want is to stand in front of it at this distance, not to sit.

 

[BleedingFingertips]

Re: how do I know what the right amp tone is?

I would imagine it becomes an issue only when you record. Live, the sound guy (if there is one) will hopefully tell you how to EQ and where to place your amp or mic it up (provided you're also making use of a PA). But if you record something with a "weak" tone, maybe it will be difficult to keep the guitar tracks from being buried in the mix? I honestly have no idea, though.

Dying to buy a mic and an interface. Only then I know

 

[eclecticsynergy]

Re: how do I know what the right amp tone is?

Well, in my case 5'-6' are somewhat problematic. I mean that's appr. the distance at which the tone gets fuzzier. But I figured that my speaker is angled, so I would agree with you that a better way to get the tone I want is to stand in front of it at this distance, not to sit.

When it gets fuzzier out at 5'-6', I think that's when you're beginning to hear the full range of sound. It's the treble you don't hear when off-axis that makes it sound fuzzier and harsher to you- that's your actual tone. Try an amp stand, or tilting the whole thing up (angled speaker might not be angled enough by itself). Or at least a chair.

The better way to get the tone you want is to dial the amp in while listening to its full response, rather than counting on the mellowing effect of not hearing all of what it's putting out. That way when you eventually do put a mic in front of it, you won't be unpleasantly surprised at how harsh the tone is.

Many modern players use too much treble and a lot more gain than they really need IMO.

 

[Coma]

Re: how do I know what the right amp tone is?

When it gets fuzzier out at 5'-6', I think that's when you're beginning to hear the full range of sound. It's the treble you don't hear when off-axis that makes it sound fuzzier and harsher to you- that's your actual tone. Try an amp stand, or tilting the whole thing up (angled speaker might not be angled enough by itself). Or at least a chair.

The better way to get the tone you want is to dial the amp in while listening to its full response, rather than counting on the mellowing effect of not hearing all of what it's putting out. That way when you eventually do put a mic in front of it, you won't be unpleasantly surprised at how harsh the tone is.

Many modern players use too much treble and a lot more gain than they really need IMO.

That doesn't really make sense to me. If the full range of your tone starts being reliable around 5 - 6 feet from your amp, and you mic things up cloes and personal (which is the norm in metal, at least) then you're not going to get the same tone you have 6 feet away from the speaker anyway. Unless you mean that you should then re-dial the amp to try to get the sound hitting the close prxomity mic as close to the 6 feet mark as possible?

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: how do I know what the right amp tone is?

My amp's in the living room. It has some furniture and a carpet, of course

As an experiment, try moving your amp to the kitchen or a room with a tiled, wood or solid floor and see if it still sounds muddy.

 

[BleedingFingertips]

Re: how do I know what the right amp tone is?

Well, I hope that I can get the tone I want and make the Black Winters great again, a bit more hassle with the height adjustment may be the solution. Now another question. As I mentioned, my in-built amp booster tightens insanely good. Any idea how the boosting works? From what I've heard the tubes are pushed further into saturation. But shouldn't the higher saturation emphasize the fuzz instead of eliminating it? Or can there be also changes to frequencies?

 

[eclecticsynergy]

Re: how do I know what the right amp tone is?

That doesn't really make sense to me. If the full range of your tone starts being reliable around 5 - 6 feet from your amp, and you mic things up cloes and personal (which is the norm in metal, at least) then you're not going to get the same tone you have 6 feet away from the speaker anyway. Unless you mean that you should then re-dial the amp to try to get the sound hitting the close prxomity mic as close to the 6 feet mark as possible?

It's not the distance, it's the angle. The fuzziness you start to hear 5 feet out is the treble you haven't been hearing when you're not directly in line with the amp. A close mic is directly in front of the speaker, so it hears the treble that you can't when you're off axis.

There is a slight difference in tone a few feet out, which is often taken advantage of in studio recording. But it's a fullness in the body of the tone, not extra treble. When it's been practical I've almost always used a close mic (usually a dynamic aimed near the seam between the cone & dome) and a good condenser mic four to six feet away. These could be blended for a nice full sound. But as I say, that second mic is adding body, not fuzziness.

 

[BleedingFingertips]

Re: how do I know what the right amp tone is?

Okay, now I played around with all my three guitars (Black Winters, Nazgul and Designed 102), and I think I'm starting to understand how I get good tones with all three, although I cannot explain it. So, it has 2 channels (clean/OD) with a boost function sharing one eq. I think that OD with "boost" activated is what a 3rd high gain channel on more expensive amps is. Nazgul and Black Winters excel with the booster, i.e. with tons of gain, whereas they sound too harsh and underpowered without the booster (the problem I mentioned in my opening entry). And without boosting, Duncan Designed kicks Nazgul's and BW's asses. Not what I expected from "modern high gain" pickups but I can live with it.

 

[zionstrat]

Re: how do I know what the right amp tone is?

IMO, if you're gigging the "true" sound is the sound the audience hears, which is either your direct sound if they're standing in front of the stage or your FOH sound if they're standing further back in the room.

A lot of people like the darker off axis sound and dislike having the speakers aimed directly at their head. A lot of those people dial in way too much high end and their sound can come across as piercing. These (IMO) are also the people that ***** about soundmen always asking them to turn down.

Myself, I've gotten better results by aiming the speakers directly at my head. If it's too bright, rather than aim the speakers lower I turn down the treble. My band is typically one of the loudest on the bill and we rarely get asked to turn down.

IMO/YMMV

100% agreed on audience perspective and your foh engineer is your best friend, followed by friendly musicians in audience.

It's been a long time since I've been wireless, but did 1 gig from the booth... Wasn't a large venue and delay was a challenge... But big surprise was my tone was somewhat different than sound check due to the warm bodies absorbing sound.

Might be worth a try if u get a chance.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

 

[eclecticsynergy]

Re: how do I know what the right amp tone is?

It's just amazing how much sound human bodies soak up.