How do *you* work on theory?

[FretFire]

I'm at a point in my playing where the obvious road block is my lack of music theory knowledge. It limits my writing, improvisation, and creativity more than my technique, gear, or any other factor. So, I started doing something about it.

Last week I sat down and started working with E major. It seems like a natural key for the guitar, and a lot of the songs I play at church are in E. I memorized the notes, played them all over the neck, listened to intervals between them, and built a few chords and progressions. Now I feel fairly comfortable with where E is if that makes sense.

I was curious, how do you guys work on theory? What are some methods or routines you use? How do you move from the theory to actual application?

 

[bigmack209]

Re: How do *you* work on theory?

Man, music theory is my favorite thing in the world haha. At some point i used a lot of this: http://www.musictheory.net/
Even if you already know parts of it, go all the way through all the lessons. Use the exercises too. Memorize all the notes on your guitar and try to think in terms of scale degrees more often. Learn all your diatonic (greek) modes (and their names) and how they sound. Understand that playing in G major is the same as playing in A dorian, B Phrygian, C Lydian, D Mixolydian, E Aeolian(minor), or F# Locrian. Then you can use the arpeggios from the modes of your choice to highlight a particular mood. In addition to getting an idea of how each mode sounds (and which might be your favorite(s)), get an idea of how each interval sounds: minor 2nd, major 2nd, minor 3rd, major 3rd, perfect 4th, tritone, perfect 5th, minor 6th, major 6th, minor 7th, major 7th, octave, and even notes above that such as 9, 11, 13, (2, 4, 6, just an octave up). Memorizing the notes in each key can be a good idea too - it helps to get you out of the mental block of playing in shapes on your neck. Also try to learn about the whole/half patterns of a major scale. For example, a major scale (in steps, W=whole, H=half) WWHWWWH. So you know that if you find yourself on the 6th scale degree, you can go up 2 frets (one whole step) and find yourself on the 7th, then up a half step to the major root.

Sorry for rambling but it's late and I'm spitting out ideas. Most important thing: force yourself to think about it when you play. It might hold you back a little at first because you'll be thinking a lot more, but once your theory is engrained in your brain, it'll become second nature and just another tool.

 

[lpmarshall]

Re: How do *you* work on theory?

Theory? Never heard of it. :scratchch

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: How do *you* work on theory?

It's all about ear. Theory is nothing but a way to describe what your ear already knows. So, the ear comes first. "Theory" is just how to talk about it with others. I suggest simply playing along with records every day. Learn a new album every day. Then learn how to talk about what it is you're doing. Voila, you know theory.

 

[Bludave]

Re: How do *you* work on theory?

Take what you've learned and apply it to ALL other keys. Its really all about intervals.

Personally I like working in "closed keys" Eb, F, Bb, Ab etc. These keys take the open strings out of anything you play. that's why they refer to them as closed keys. We are all creatures of habit & at some point when you are playing in lets say Eb, you will naturally slide into E. It sounds horrible when you do it & the closed keys will keep you focused on playing in key.

 

[GuitarStv]

Re: How do *you* work on theory?

I started with arpeggios. Learn your Major, Minor, Dom 7th, Maj 7th, Min 6th, and Dim arpeggios first and pay close attention to the fretboard locations of the intervals. Practice playing them over backing tracks and following the changes and you'll get yourself more comfortable and better at picking out the sounds you want to hear over the chords as they change.

It's all about ear. Theory is nothing but a way to describe what your ear already knows. So, the ear comes first. "Theory" is just how to talk about it with others. I suggest simply playing along with records every day. Learn a new album every day. Then learn how to talk about what it is you're doing. Voila, you know theory.

I kinda both agree and disagree. You always have to keep in mind what you're playing and how it sounds . . . . but I think that working on arpeggios and scales dramatically improved my ear.

 

[Jakek5150]

Re: How do *you* work on theory?

http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/eve...781593376529&itm=2&usri=the+music+theory+book

I've been reading this book to improve my theory knowledge. I typically just play and write based on what I feel and what sounds good, but knowing the science behind it is interesting and can sometimes help expand your musical abilities. There's some stuff that I'm sure I'll never need to learn, but having a better understanding of intervals, harmonics, and the like always makes me feel more confident in my knowledge of music.

 

[CapoFirstFret]

Re: How do *you* work on theory?

I probably shouldn't count because I took classes on it in college, but I do have an awesome link I can give you if you want to check out some college level courses in music for free.

Free Online Courses!

That is a link to free online courses as given by major universities like MIT, Notre Dame, and U.C. Irvine. There is no accreditation or anything and no degree at the end, but if all you're after is the information you can find it.


As far as moving to actual application, I find actual application comes from making connections. Like connecting E major with C# minor, and knowing how they relate. Working on arpeggios and chord voicings I find are the best ways to get your mind wrapped around how to utilize the new knowledge. Don't take things too fast. Take one concept and really work it until it is in your head and you don't have to think about it anymore.

 

[FretFire]

Re: How do *you* work on theory?

It's all about ear. Theory is nothing but a way to describe what your ear already knows. So, the ear comes first. "Theory" is just how to talk about it with others. I suggest simply playing along with records every day. Learn a new album every day. Then learn how to talk about what it is you're doing. Voila, you know theory.

I see what you're saying, but if I walk on stage and our song leader says "let's do a pre-jam before the first song, let's just vamp over a I-IV-V in B" then going by ear (as I have for 13 years now) leaves me in the dark. In situations like this it would be very helpful to know which notes fit over what chords (or maybe even more importantly, which ones to avoid).

Plus, you don't have to listen to many jazz or fusion songs to hear things that sound a little out of the box to the ear but are perfectly legit, theory-wise.

 

[CapoFirstFret]

Re: How do *you* work on theory?

I see what you're saying, but if I walk on stage and our song leader says "let's do a pre-jam before the first song, let's just vamp over a I-IV-V in B" then going by ear (as I have for 13 years now) leaves me in the dark. In situations like this it would be very helpful to know which notes fit over what chords (or maybe even more importantly, which ones to avoid).

Plus, you don't have to listen to many jazz or fusion songs to hear things that sound a little out of the box to the ear but are perfectly legit, theory-wise.

Learning to equate numbers to the keys you're in will make your life a lot easier. Music is by numbers, not letters. Memorizing your chords (major, minor, diminished, augmented, major 7ths, dominant 7ths, minor 7ths, etc) is good, but if you learn the numerical formula for them it makes it far easier.

Ultimately you want to have all of your keys memorized as well as your chords. The thing I've stressed to students I'm tutoring in music theory is what I call the five second rule. If you can't spell out any major, minor, augmented or diminished chord in 5 seconds or less, you're going to struggle with music theory especially in an improvised or on the fly situation.

 

[FretFire]

Re: How do *you* work on theory?

Learning to equate numbers to the keys you're in will make your life a lot easier. Music is by numbers, not letters. Memorizing your chords (major, minor, diminished, augmented, major 7ths, dominant 7ths, minor 7ths, etc) is good, but if you learn the numerical formula for them it makes it far easier.

Ultimately you want to have all of your keys memorized as well as your chords. The thing I've stressed to students I'm tutoring in music theory is what I call the five second rule. If you can't spell out any major, minor, augmented or diminished chord in 5 seconds or less, you're going to struggle with music theory especially in an improvised or on the fly situation.

I see what you're saying, that makes sense. I'd think you still need to know where the notes are on the fretboard to apply that. I've got a good ear that's allowed me to write some nice hooks and melodies, but that only takes me so far. Thanks for the tips.

 

[Chickenwings]

Re: How do *you* work on theory?

I started with arpeggios. Learn your Major, Minor, Dom 7th, Maj 7th, Min 6th, and Dim arpeggios first and pay close attention to the fretboard locations of the intervals. Practice playing them over backing tracks and following the changes and you'll get yourself more comfortable and better at picking out the sounds you want to hear over the chords as they change.



I kinda both agree and disagree. You always have to keep in mind what you're playing and how it sounds . . . . but I think that working on arpeggios and scales dramatically improved my ear.

this is great.

Also....get a book called:
"the jazz theory handbook" by mark levine.
and being able to read music saves a lot of heartache and frustration too. I know its not very fashionable and i know its also a lot of hard work, but it really is the fastest way to get where you want to go. Music is a language that is common to all instruments, written music is juts sounds written down on paper...the same way any language is written.
if you are a pick style guitarist then "a modern method for guitar" by william leavitt is a good place to start.

 

[guitfiddle]

Re: How do *you* work on theory?

Scales are important, but more important is to learn the different places/shapes you can play them around the fretboard, and then to learn how those interconnect. Then you have a road map for all the places you can put your fingers and have it come out right. This also lets you know how you can move to other shapes to keep a flow.

Then, and this is a BIG one, you can start to see that if a particular closed shape works in one key, then you slide that exact same shape up or down, play it the same, and you're in a new key. I never think about notes, and rarely about the numbers. Once you know where and HOW the scales intersect, then it's a snap to transpose.

 

[MojoMonster]

Re: How do *you* work on theory?

Scales are important, but more important is to learn the different places/shapes you can play them around the fretboard, and then to learn how those interconnect. Then you have a road map for all the places you can put your fingers and have it come out right. This also lets you know how you can move to other shapes to keep a flow.

Then, and this is a BIG one, you can start to see that if a particular closed shape works in one key, then you slide that exact same shape up or down, play it the same, and you're in a new key. I never think about notes, and rarely about the numbers. Once you know where and HOW the scales intersect, then it's a snap to transpose.

This is what I need to learn.
Any suggestions about the most effective way to go about it?

 

[GuitarStv]

Re: How do *you* work on theory?

This is what I need to learn.
Any suggestions about the most effective way to go about it?

This book really helped me do that. It's got pretty much every shape and interconnection for all of your basic arpeggios (and therefore chord shapes). It'll take a few months of steady, consistent study but it really pays off. I know it says 'For Rock Guitar' but the stuff in the book helps for any style of music.

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: How do *you* work on theory?

I see what you're saying, but if I walk on stage and our song leader says "let's do a pre-jam before the first song, let's just vamp over a I-IV-V in B" then going by ear (as I have for 13 years now) leaves me in the dark. In situations like this it would be very helpful to know which notes fit over what chords (or maybe even more importantly, which ones to avoid).

Plus, you don't have to listen to many jazz or fusion songs to hear things that sound a little out of the box to the ear but are perfectly legit, theory-wise.

The "learn how to talk about what you're doing" was the most important part of my suggestion. That is all that practical theory is in my book. And the good part is that learning enough to communicate is incredibly easy. There are only a few things to learn to be able to do it. You need to know what the intervals are. I, V, etc. You learn that based on the two basic triads and scales, major and minor. Then, learn which chords in a key are naturally major or minor, and how to hear the deviations from this (which are quite common, especially in the cases of the II and III chords in a major key, or the V chord in a minor key).

My point with my statement was that theory should almost never tell you what to play, unless you are just desperately lost and need a "safe" part to play that will work OK to get you through. Your ear knows what to play, or it doesn't. No amount of theoretical knowledge is going to give you the ear to know what to play and what not to play. Only natural ability and practice does that.

In short, theory won't really make you a better player in and of itself...it'll just make you a better team player, because it provides a common understanding between musicians. It won't make you "understand" music in the same way that your ear naturally understands music, but it will make it easier for musicians to understand each other.

 

[FretFire]

Re: How do *you* work on theory?

The "learn how to talk about what you're doing" was the most important part of my suggestion. That is all that practical theory is in my book. And the good part is that learning enough to communicate is incredibly easy. There are only a few things to learn to be able to do it. You need to know what the intervals are. I, V, etc. You learn that based on the two basic triads and scales, major and minor. Then, learn which chords in a key are naturally major or minor, and how to hear the deviations from this (which are quite common, especially in the cases of the II and III chords in a major key, or the V chord in a minor key).

My point with my statement was that theory should almost never tell you what to play, unless you are just desperately lost and need a "safe" part to play that will work OK to get you through. Your ear knows what to play, or it doesn't. No amount of theoretical knowledge is going to give you the ear to know what to play and what not to play. Only natural ability and practice does that.

In short, theory won't really make you a better player in and of itself...it'll just make you a better team player, because it provides a common understanding between musicians. It won't make you "understand" music in the same way that your ear naturally understands music, but it will make it easier for musicians to understand each other.

I see what you're saying now, thanks for clarifying.

 

[Quencho092]

Re: How do *you* work on theory?

The great composers knew little about theory DIRECTLY but they had a functional system of putting music together that worked astoundingly well. Modern analysts take apart the chord changes and found that composers just really liked the resolution from V to I, from ii to V, from I to IV, from I to vi, etc. You learn how HARMONY works, and find so many more opportunities than 12 bar blues or vamps and directionless pentatonic noodle seshes.

Theory is a way of explaining why you played what you played, and YES, the greats KNEW HOW TO COMPOSE and knew some functional theory. (or else they would have just sucked)

Theory helps you connect what's going on. An Eb maj7 arpeggio starting on G sounds great in G minor, if you know just THAT arpeggio across the fretboard you could use the pattern in Eb maj, G minor, C minor, C dorian, G phyrigian, G#melodic minor (loosely of course, some tones are different but 3rd's and 7ths are kosher, so as long as you TARGET the 3, 5, 7, 9 and don't rest on non chord tones awkwardly forward motion is established. Knowing a little theory helps you guide where you're going, and it networks your skills in your own mind so you can PLAN sounds and express better.

I believe it will make you a better player if you're aware of the theory behind what you're playing. Absolutely no question, when I learned which scales were relative to which and which tones LED the change (the 7th is known as the leading tone), all of the sudden you could call the shots with the same physical finger positionings as before. Learning theory is like upgrading the head coach of your basketball team! A real gameplan is in effect, not just winging it and praying that the ball goes in the basket.

Burying one's head in the sand like an ostrich ignoring the knowledge out there that really helps connect the dots will NOT give you enhanced feel/soul/technique. It's an immature excuse for not learning, aka ignorance. Knowing the chemistry of intervals, harmonized chord scales, altered scales, substitutions- a handful of chord shapes that we all know suddenly become a massive vocabulary....

http://soundcloud.com/ze-quencho/fun-times-2 I just tracked this down right now as a rough example of trying to follow changes and plan a bit more of what I'm doing. Tune can be played as a D blues, but the Emin7b5 and A7#5 beg for a Bb melodic minor as passing tones.

 

[Al.C]

Re: How do *you* work on theory?

I have read (and forgotten) several theory books over the last few years. Generally rather dry and much just doesn't stick. I am currently reading a great book called "The Songwriting Secrets of the Beatles" by Dominic Pedler. He actually discussed much of popular music theaory in great detail but because he continually uses the Beatles songs as reference the material actually sticks. It is a rather lengthy book but is easy to read. Unfortunately it is out of print but can be purchased online (not cheap though-but well worth the price IMHO)

 

[guitfiddle]

Re: How do *you* work on theory?

Here are the five shapes for the major scale ( Ionian mode) in C. The bold, red numbers are the "key" note/tonic. An * beside a number means to use your fourth (pinky) finger on that note. The indicated finger is where you position your hand.

Second finger, sixth string.

1 -------------------------------7 8 10
2 ---------------------------8 10
3 ---------------------7 9 10
4 ---------------7 9 10
5 -------- 7 8 10
6 ---7 8 10

Fourth finger, sixth string

1 -------------------------------5 7 8
2 -------------------------5 6 8
3 -----------------4 5 7
4 -------------5 7*
5 --------5 7 8
6 ---5 7 8

Second finger, fifth string.

1 -----------------------------3 5
2 ------------------------3 5 6
3 -------------------2 4 5
4 --------------2 3 5
5 ---------2 3 5
6 --- 1 3 5

Fourth finger, fifth string.

1 ----------------------------------------12 13 15
2 --------------------------------12 13 15
3 ---------------------------12 14
4 -------------------12 14 15
5 -----------12 14 15
6 ---12 14 15

Second finger, fourth string.

1 --------------------------------------10 12 13
2 ------------------------------10 12 13
3 -----------------------9 10 12
4 ----------------9 10 12
5 -----------10 12*
6 ---10 12 13


Now, take all five of these, and make a picture of the fretboard, with dots instead of numbers. Here's the first example above, to get you started. Draw these all out, and you'll be able to see how they work.

1 __*__*_____*__
2 _____*_____*__
3 __*_____*__*__
4 __*_____*__*__
5 __*__*_____*__
6 __*__*_____*__
second finger @ 8th fret


After you've done all that, move the dots up one fret, and you're now doing the exact same shapes in C# major. Move those shapes back one fret, and you're in B, and so on.