How many watts is enough?

[Zerberus]

Re: How many watts is enough?

DEpends on the situation..... At home I can easily get by with 1 watt, most general jamming and impromptu stuff i can easily get by w/ 80 ss watts...

But on stgae I´ve never had a single band / gig combination that would have let me get by with less than a 50W half stack, and even that was at the cost of clean tones.....

It´s easy to get 1W from a 100W amp, the other way around is impossible.

rock & roll is loud, man. Jimmy Paige used a 200 watt fullstack. I don't see anyone givin him crap about that

speakin of jimmy paige, i got my dad the led zeppelin box set yestersay, 9 cd's, 4 additional tracks, all digitally remastered by paige, and i'm havin a real hard time not crackin that bad boy open. I wanna leave the price tag on it, cost me $120

BTW: Assuming you mean Led Zeps guitarist, his name is Jimmy Page

 

[Rainmaker]

Re: How many watts is enough?

If he was a woman, she should be named Paige Jimmy.

Anyway, (lol) my 30 watt solid state amp is by far enough for me... but the jamsite has electronic drums.

Subjective.

 

[Lake Placid Blues]

Re: How many watts is enough?

The speaker or speakers used are crucial. This not only has to do with the voicing issue, alluded to by Alec Lee, but also the precieved volume. Once you get up to about 20-25 watts the speaker efficiency probably has a greater effect on precieved volume, especially in a band mix, than wattage.

A Matchless DC30 with one Vintage30 (100db efficiency) will squash a 50 watt Class A/B amp loaded with a 97 db speaker such as a G12T75. I've seen this happen.

Going back to the original post, a 15 watt class A amp will probably not sound loud enough to cut through a live band when loaded with a Greenback (97 db efficiency). It would probably be great in a recording booth, or at home though. Take the same amp and put in a Celestion with the larger magnet such as the G12H30 or V30 and it's a slightly different situation. Not only does the larger magnet increase the efficiency to 100db but it also gives it a brighter tighter voicing. It might cut it in a band rehersal then.

I used to ofton have to use the 1/2 power switch on a Marshall Jubilee when gigging. It would just absolutely bury the bass player and the vocal monitors in most small clubs otherwise. You could always turn down the master on high power, but then the amp would sound lazy.

25-35 watts is plenty to gig with if you don't need to keep effects clean and your trying to get some output stage overdrive. I like bluesy "Clean but dirty" cleans and don't use hardly any effects. A 30 watt amp in such case is perfect, as the amp will probably be right in the sweet spot and you can push it over the edge with an overdrive device, when not mic'ed up through a pA. With less efficient speakers you can push the power tubes and speakers more. However, if you use a pedal board, you will probably want a high head room amp/speaker combonation to gig with, provided you don't mic up.

Today small clubs, find traditional rock and roll volumes unacceptable. They won't let you crank up a 50 watt or even a 30 watt amp. No way! They may actually deem a 15 watt amp way too loud. If they "see" a 4x12 speaker cab they will automatically start yelling to turn it down no matter how loud it actually is. Many places want not very loud guitar amps and they mic up everything, so they have complete control over volume.

 

[MikeS]

Re: How many watts is enough?

how loud an amp is is not realy too closely based on wattage..

That depends on how the amplifier is rated, as well. However, a true 100 watts to a cab is 100 watts period. The speakers don't care what the signal makeup is, just it's amplitude. To the speaker, decibel output is mathematically dependent on watts recieved. If a Powerball outputs a true 120 watts and a Plexi outputs a true 100 watts, then assuming the same cabinet is used for both, the Powerball will output a higher decibel level than the plexi. That's pure science. Percieved volume is a completely different story. The trouble is that output wattage is tested and marketed differently by every company and then the results are exaggerated.

 

[WhoFan]

Re: How many watts is enough?

I own a C30 with the ext cab.... sounds good when you get the volume turned up a bit, so at home practice with this amp i don't bother unless i throw a Distortion box thru the clean channel..... for home i use solid state... The C30 is extremely loud and has a lot of headroom for almost any bar with a PA, and for practice with your band it will get heard above the drummer and bassist... I find that the power of the C30 kicks the tubes pretty hard when you push it and tubes wear fast.

I want a Traynor.... i have not tried any at home yet, but the local store has 5 models i think in stock... Good amps and i love the one with the greenback...

If you get a C30 do not change the speaker to a Greenback..... Try to get a cleaner speaker..

 

[ES350]

Re: How many watts is enough?

There's this notion floating around that anything with a circuit vaugely resembling an AC30/15 with EL84's is Class A, perpetuated by manufacturers. Even an AC30, when you wind it up, ends up in Class AB operation. How in the world is 15 Class A watts 'louder' than 15 watts in Class AB ??? See Randall Aikens site if you have questions...

 

[royd]

Re: How many watts is enough?

What es350 said... there are very few true class A amps that have more than one output tube.

That said, lets get back to the real question... volume has a lot of factors other than just wattage. The amps tone stack and gain structure has a lot to do with it... then there is speaker efficiency and then there is the voicing of the amp. We have all played two amps with the same wattage rating,
same tubes and similar speakers but one is WAAAAYYY louder than the other.

I tried a Groove Tubes single at Myles Rose's house that was so loud it was almost painful. I think it had a 6V6 in it so it was running about 6 watts.

Personally, my big amp is 30 watts. My small amp is 6 and I often use it in rehearsal with an 8 piece band... I'm looking to upgrade the transformers so I can use bigger tubes and take it up to 15 watts and I expect it will become my main amp.

So what does that mean in your situation? Try them both. Crank em a bit. See how loud you can get and stay relatively clean. Pick the one that sounds best to you.

 

[Quencho092]

Re: How many watts is enough?

speakers have alot to do with it. TR with JBL's is the king of cleans for a reason-neither speakers nor amp give up anything. C12N's break up in Twins, and in many cases were blown because they couldn't handle the heat.

If it has a vintage 30, then you should rock out without much of a problem.

 

[Corbic]

Re: How many watts is enough?

Hey all! Just got back from Virginia with the rest of my family, and just catching up on all the feedback so far. Thanks for all the advice! I'll be heading to Guitar Center to try out both sometime this week. So while on the topic of replacement speakers, whats the differences between them? The main ones I've been looking at if I don't like the speaker thats in the amp I buy (Most likely won't matter if I get the Traynor), are the Greenback, G12H30, and the Vintage 30. I know the Vin30 and G12H30 have a larger magnet, which makes it louder, but which one would you suggest for my needs of getting a vintage British rock tone? I know Marshall used the G12H30 in its cabinets at one point, and also the Greenback before that, so I'm leaning more toward those at the moment.

 

[Mephis]

Re: How many watts is enough?

My 50watt seems to be right in a sweet spot for anoying the neighbors and still be able to be used for nighttime practice.

 

[Lake Placid Blues]

Re: How many watts is enough?

Hey all! Just got back from Virginia with the rest of my family, and just catching up on all the feedback so far. Thanks for all the advice! I'll be heading to Guitar Center to try out both sometime this week. So while on the topic of replacement speakers, whats the differences between them? The main ones I've been looking at if I don't like the speaker thats in the amp I buy (Most likely won't matter if I get the Traynor), are the Greenback, G12H30, and the Vintage 30. I know the Vin30 and G12H30 have a larger magnet, which makes it louder, but which one would you suggest for my needs of getting a vintage British rock tone? I know Marshall used the G12H30 in its cabinets at one point, and also the Greenback before that, so I'm leaning more toward those at the moment.

The GB and the G12H30 were used concurently by Marshall from the late 60's through the late 70's. Usually the GB was used in the standard 4x12 cabs desiginated model 1960. The G12H was used in the heavy duty 4x12 cabs designated 1982. The Vintage 30 is a 60 watt speaker introduced in the mid 80's, as a cheaper alternative to an Alnico magnet G12. It used the same magnet and cone as the G12H, but used a voice coil assemby with the same mass and materials as an Alnico.


All three give Rock sounds. The GB is the British Blues Rock speaker. The G12H has a noticable lower midrange hump, and has been described as giving the 70's Kiss sound when used with a humbucker. However, this all assumes closed back cabs.

In open back cab's the GB has been described aa a bit flubby in the low end, and the Vintage30 can be a bit bright. I don't find the GB as being flubby, but it may depend on the guitar too. I would say the G12H30 is the best bet, in an open back cab.

 

[drew_half_empty]

Re: How many watts is enough?

i'd go with an eminence wizard if you're set on the g12h's, so you get 75 watt power handling instead of 30

 

[Wattage]

Re: How many watts is enough?

how loud an amp is is not really too closely based on wattage..

Well if Wattage doesn't matter I am taking my amp and going home.

Never had any luck gigging with less than 50w prefer 100w anyday and I'll take more if I can get it.


btw Corbic I have a Peavey XXX 120wt 2x12 combo 4 sale on Long Island. If you are interested let me know.

 

[The Golden Boy]

Re: How many watts is enough?

rock & roll is loud, man. Jimmy Paige used a 200 watt fullstack. I don't see anyone givin him crap about that

They're up to 180w. Yeah, but listen to the DRAMATIC decline of Jimmy Page's tone after he got the heads modded. What was that thick, over driven sizzle became that clean, high endy sound. It's the big difference between the sounds on How The West Was Won and The Song Remains The Same.

 

[drew_half_empty]

Re: How many watts is enough?

i thought his tone on the soundtrack to the song remains the same was friggin killer

 

[neosadist]

Re: How many watts is enough?

Hey all, as some of you know I've been looking for a tube amp, and after some great advice from everyone here (thanks!), I'm stuck between a Peavey Classic 30 and a Traynor YCV20 combo. Both are a 1X12 combo, with a master volume and reverb. Now the Peavey is 30 watts, and comes with a Blue Marvel speaker. Unless the speaker was incredibly great I'd plan on changing it to a Greenback speaker or G12H30. The Traynor is 15 watts, Class A, with a Greenback speaker standard. They are both around the same price, the Traynor being only a little bit more. Now I'd be using whichever one I get for practice at home, with my fledgeling band, and eventually (and hopefully) some small shows. So here's my question : how many watts is enough for that? 15 or 30? Thanks!

I'd say 30, because you can turn the volume down at home, but you'll need some wattage to put out in concert, whether mic'd or not. Hope that helps!

 

[Lake Placid Blues]

Re: How many watts is enough?

They're up to 180w. Yeah, but listen to the DRAMATIC decline of Jimmy Page's tone after he got the heads modded. What was that thick, over driven sizzle became that clean, high endy sound. It's the big difference between the sounds on How The West Was Won and The Song Remains The Same.

I have some questions about this. What kind of mods are going on with Page's Marshalls? Is ~180 watts at clipping just the result of going from EL34 to KT88? The stock metal panel 1959's put out 170-180 watts max, distorting, with EL34's. Output at clipping was usually about 115 watts with EL34's, and it's the clean output that tube amps are rated at. Putting in KT88's would increase the clean head room to the point that amp wouldn't start clipping until almost max output.

 

[milkbone]

Re: How many watts is enough?

I've used my Mesa 20/20 extensively at home, practice, small gigs, large gigs and outdoor gigs. I've never been short on power. I hear alot of talk about small wattage el84 amps not having enough headroom or power. Either I'm not really picky or my ears are no good because my sound on my clean channel has always been great. Anyway I've used my Mesa and I've also used a Hughes&Kettner Edition Tube 20 which is another excellent amp(1x12 combo). I usually run direct with an ADA microcab II and use a 4x12.
Just my experience. Hope it helps some.