how much can be attributed to pickups, guitar and technique?

orpheo

Well-known member
A short story.

Some weeks ago I got a PM from a dutch board for pickup recommendations to go in a les paul. The player experienced some issues with his current guitar, and I already found peculiar that he had those issues on that particular guitar. He found that his new guitar, a les paul custom, sounded mushy and overly warm. I know the previous owner and his playing and his other gear quite well, and he claims, in fact, that that guitar was bright and clear compared to his other LP custom. I know that guitar too, so I can really attest to his statement: that LP custom the guy had who came to me is clear and bright, not warm and punchy.

But ok. He wants more clarity, but not a 'hifi tone'. He is bend on using seymour duncans and he wants low output pickups. So I recommend using the pearly gates B in the bridge and a 59 in the neck. I have had great experiences with the 59 in several guitars. Perhaps that pickup is a bit boomy, but no way you can turn it into a mush.

After he's wired the pickup in, a myriad of problems are bombarded onto me. Too warm, too mushy, not enough output. I find that very hard to believe. Not only are these the exact same issues he's had before with the stock pickups, but a '59 shouldn't be mushy, and a '59 shouldn't have much less output than a PG at all. He thinks it's a short, but that's ofcourse hogwash. If it were a short, there wouldn't be any output at all!

So, I wonder. How much can really be attributed to technique, or the guitar, or the pickups? I have used that set on more than one occasion, and never experienced mushyness. I know the guitar and rig, and they're not 'mushy' either. Is technique really THAT important that it can make a clear pickup mushy and overly middy?
 
Re: how much can be attributed to pickups, guitar and technique?

Tell him to get his ears cleaned.
No, seriously.
Ear wax builds up, especially if he uses q-tips.

Do you know he wired it correctly with correct pot and cap values?
Did he adjust the pickup height?

The other issue I tend to have when describing tone is agreeing on terms... what do terms like "mushy" mean, exactly?
To you?
To him?

And finally, some people really don't know how to communicate what they want or can tell the difference between what they want or what they think they should want.

That or he can't dial in his gear worth a crap.
 
Re: how much can be attributed to pickups, guitar and technique?

A short is a real possibility, at least from the 3-way's side.

I've had two guitars with 3-ways with both of them shorting on the neck position.
The result is a really LOW output, like I switched the amp from the gain to the cleans channel and lowered the volume pot to 5. Usually a few flicks of the switch down and up again fix the problem (but I really need to rewire or swap that 3-way though :9:).

I'm not saying that's his problem but I'm describing what a wiring problem can sound like.
Now, after completely agreeing on what MojoMonster is saying about agreeing on what mushy or bright sounds like, I too can't get along with the '59.

If it were me, I'd tell him to check and recheck his wiring (especially for cold solder joints) and then switch to a Jazz, that's a GREAT neck pickup.
 
Re: how much can be attributed to pickups, guitar and technique?

he explicitly didn't want the jazz: too hifi.

the switch isn't the problem. it never was a problem, and he didn't touch the switch, just the pot. the wiring was ok. he refuses to give me any insight regarding the pickup- and polepiece height.

mushy is like having the tonepot closed or very much closed, to me anyway. mushy is so warm that it's hard to distinguish notes in a chord. what it is for him? again: no insight.

the question is more: is technique really that important? the rest is just a background for that question ;)
 
Re: how much can be attributed to pickups, guitar and technique?

the question is more: is technique really that important? the rest is just a background for that question ;)
Given that context, I'm going to say no.
With the caveat that I don't know nearly enough about the reality of the situation to make a definitive statement.

You didn't say what sort of style/music he played.

I'm going to assume that he's not palm-muting the hell out his guitar and playing right on top of the neck pickup and wondering why his neck pup sounds "mushy".

If that is the case, the I'm sticking with "no".
It's not his technique.
 
Re: how much can be attributed to pickups, guitar and technique?

This might be a question for.... Amplifier Central!
 
Re: how much can be attributed to pickups, guitar and technique?

perhaps he needs a strat.
59s are anything but muddy IMO.
 
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Play the guitar yourself through his rig with his pick and make the assessment from there. In fact, even go so far as to checking his wiring and checking the setup on the guitar. Play it, make necessary adjustments and let him tell you when it sounds good. Then hand the guitar to him. If he *****es then, it's his technique.
 
Re: how much can be attributed to pickups, guitar and technique?

Is he using the right value pots?
 
Re: how much can be attributed to pickups, guitar and technique?

When I work on friends' guitars, I take it home, triple check the setup and wiring, then play it myself until I'm completely satisfied as well as getting a sound as close to my client's requests.

59 is a nice and clear neck pickup in my experience, hell even my seth lover JANGLES through a 280 volume pot......
Is he using the right value pots?
THIS!
 
Re: how much can be attributed to pickups, guitar and technique?

Play the guitar yourself through his rig with his pick and make the assessment from there. In fact, even go so far as to checking his wiring and checking the setup on the guitar. Play it, make necessary adjustments and let him tell you when it sounds good. Then hand the guitar to him. If he *****es then, it's his technique.

+1.
 
Re: how much can be attributed to pickups, guitar and technique?

pots were the originals.

we found the issue. he fried the pot. thats it. but again: that was not my intention for this thread. I wanted to know what you guys feel about technique: if it can make a guitar sound with one player warm and with the other bright(er).
 
Re: how much can be attributed to pickups, guitar and technique?

I don't think you can pull brightness out of thin air. If you use a pick and attack the strings close to the bridge it will be brighter, but someone else's pick attack will not magically produce more brightness given the same pick thickness.

I think that the differences in players is purely articulation and note choice (obviously...). Good players know how to adjust their articulation to sound more musical through ALL amps than players who expect charismatic tones to fly out of their amps on command with minimal effort, thus sounding like crap through a cheaper amp vs. a good player.
 
Re: how much can be attributed to pickups, guitar and technique?

You don't hear guys who can sound like a '59 burst or a '57 Tele.

You hear guys who can sound like other guys.

You hear talented guys who can sound like themselves on anything they play.
 
Re: how much can be attributed to pickups, guitar and technique?

From what I'm hearing it sounds more like the problem is due to obsessive compulsive disorder.
 
Re: how much can be attributed to pickups, guitar and technique?

From what I'm hearing it sounds more like the problem is due to obsessive compulsive disorder.

This. Plus an unskilled player, wrong amp settings, dead strings, high action, clumsy pick attack.....at some point, none of it matters.

What's needed is 5 years of woodshedding with a cheap guitar plugged into a practice amp. Then, put the good gear in his hands and it'll all come together in minutes.

I'm not saying this is the issue for certain, but it usually is.
 
Re: how much can be attributed to pickups, guitar and technique?

That guy dropped me an email that he went to a 'tech' to have it fixed. why is beyond me, just test it out yourself, but the tech claimed that the impedence of the '59 and PG are so widely different that they'll never work together properly.


can I get a ha-ha-ha-ha?!
 
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