how much wattage do you *need*?
- Thread starter boulder4112
- Start date
Gearjoneser
Gear Ho
Re: how much wattage do you *need*?
One BILLION Watts!
One BILLION Watts!
Last edited:
Clockwork_Orange
New member
Re: how much wattage do you *need*?
50w (tube) + 4x12 = <3
50w (tube) + 4x12 = <3
Brow
New member
Re: how much wattage do you *need*?
I've found at band practise that I have to run my Marshall JTM60 60w 1x12 combo at about 7 to get heard over our drummer.
Although I've played gigs in bigger sized rooms with my Orange AD30 30w head and Orange 4x12 cab WITHOUT being miked up and the volume was on about 6, and I had no worries about NOT being heard
Nowadays I always try to use my 2x12 or my 4x12 cabs just because I don't think a 1x12 combo can cut it without being miked up (not an option I have alot of the time).
Craig
I've found at band practise that I have to run my Marshall JTM60 60w 1x12 combo at about 7 to get heard over our drummer.
Although I've played gigs in bigger sized rooms with my Orange AD30 30w head and Orange 4x12 cab WITHOUT being miked up and the volume was on about 6, and I had no worries about NOT being heard
Nowadays I always try to use my 2x12 or my 4x12 cabs just because I don't think a 1x12 combo can cut it without being miked up (not an option I have alot of the time).
Craig
Loserchief
SwingingIdiot
Re: how much wattage do you *need*?
300W from my Vetta II combined with a full Stack is just funny to play with although i can't turn it up to full power.
300W from my Vetta II combined with a full Stack is just funny to play with although i can't turn it up to full power.
Zerberus
Baron Von Shred
Re: how much wattage do you *need*?
I need less Wattage than his Wife (LoL, just saw trhat he beat me to it )
But on a more serious note, a 50w+4x12 halfstack is overkill for 90% of the situations you´ll find yourself in if you´re not a gigging musician.
As soon as we´re talking small clubs and Rock music, that halfstack is the only reason you´ll be heard at all (For the reasons TO stated).
For Me: I use a 50w Halfstack in a 20sq yd apartment, and just lose the powerbrake when I play live. But I also don´t have a live drummer to work around, and generally a lot of "space" mucically that makes it easy to cut through, so I can get away w/ less amp or sometimes even going V-Twin -> Console if I have to ...
BTW, the "Screaming Teenager" theory is pretty accurate
I need less Wattage than his Wife
(LoL, just saw trhat he beat me to it )But on a more serious note, a 50w+4x12 halfstack is overkill for 90% of the situations you´ll find yourself in if you´re not a gigging musician.
As soon as we´re talking small clubs and Rock music, that halfstack is the only reason you´ll be heard at all (For the reasons TO stated).
For Me: I use a 50w Halfstack in a 20sq yd apartment, and just lose the powerbrake when I play live. But I also don´t have a live drummer to work around, and generally a lot of "space" mucically that makes it easy to cut through, so I can get away w/ less amp or sometimes even going V-Twin -> Console if I have to ...
BTW, the "Screaming Teenager" theory is pretty accurate
boulder4112
New member
Re: how much wattage do you *need*?
mmmm... how about.... 50w+2x12?
mmmm... how about.... 50w+2x12?
S
Skarekrough
Guest
Re: how much wattage do you *need*?
I've watched plenty of people play big shows with small amps.
I think the problem is called "your idiot friends need to turn down and your drummer needs to learn that "loud" is not a style but a relative measure of volume"
If the PA isn't big enough then everyone going through it is screwed, not just the guitar player.
TwilightOdyssey said:
I've watched plenty of people play big shows with small amps.
I think the problem is called "your idiot friends need to turn down and your drummer needs to learn that "loud" is not a style but a relative measure of volume"
If the PA isn't big enough then everyone going through it is screwed, not just the guitar player.
L
Lewguitar
Guest
Re: how much wattage do you *need*?
I have always found about 50 watts to be plenty...and sometimes to much.
Although I love playing through my 40 - 45 watt Super Reverb (chords are so deep and clean!) I can't turn it up loud enough to get a saturated overdriven tone.
For that I use my smaller amps and often play through two if I need to.
Two 20 watt Fender Deluxe Reverb amps or two 18 watt Fender 5E3 Deluxe amps do the trick for me, for a total of about 40 watts. That's generally the rig I use when I play out these days and I spread them out a couple of feet and then play in stereo using a Kendrick A/B/C box or a stereo effects pedal to split the signal from my guitar.
Lew
boulder4112 said:
I have always found about 50 watts to be plenty...and sometimes to much.
Although I love playing through my 40 - 45 watt Super Reverb (chords are so deep and clean!) I can't turn it up loud enough to get a saturated overdriven tone.
For that I use my smaller amps and often play through two if I need to.
Two 20 watt Fender Deluxe Reverb amps or two 18 watt Fender 5E3 Deluxe amps do the trick for me, for a total of about 40 watts. That's generally the rig I use when I play out these days and I spread them out a couple of feet and then play in stereo using a Kendrick A/B/C box or a stereo effects pedal to split the signal from my guitar.
Lew
TwilightOdyssey
Darkness on the edge of Tone
Re: how much wattage do you *need*?
Wattage is the lifeblood of the electric guitarist; it's like health points in a video game; the more watts you have on tap, the larger your dynamic reserve, plain and simple.
Yes, my original post was intended to be tongue-in-cheek. But there's an awful large grain of reality in there, too.
Such as ... ? And where? Was it to a +750 person crowd? (I'm not being argumentative, I'm genuinely curious)Skarekrough said:
My friends aren't idiots, and neither am I. I am, however, very experienced in playing live shows.
No, if the PA isn't big enough, then you just mic the kick drum and vocals and go with stage volume, which is still plenty loud and drinks up wattage like water.
Wattage is the lifeblood of the electric guitarist; it's like health points in a video game; the more watts you have on tap, the larger your dynamic reserve, plain and simple.
Yes, my original post was intended to be tongue-in-cheek. But there's an awful large grain of reality in there, too.
Curly
Moe's Bluesman
Re: how much wattage do you *need*?
I believe it depends on your type of music, and the venue
generally, I'd say use the SMALLEST amp that will give you the clean headroom you want, but still drive the tubes hard for the best tone
an amp like a 40 watt Super Reverb is a great club amp because it's power handling is a great balance of clean/ breakup for most clubs
for most of the mid size shows that I go watch these days, I don't care for those setups that are too big for the venue ... just not the best tone, IMO
however, there are players who have a clean, or Fusion type tone, and use big amps, but they usually moderate the volume with either pedals, or a second amp for overdrive ... Sonny Landreth being an example of blues tone; Larry Carlton being an example of a Fusion tone
ah, yes ... the "Dr. Evil" amp!Gearjoneser said:
I believe it depends on your type of music, and the venue
generally, I'd say use the SMALLEST amp that will give you the clean headroom you want, but still drive the tubes hard for the best tone
an amp like a 40 watt Super Reverb is a great club amp because it's power handling is a great balance of clean/ breakup for most clubs
for most of the mid size shows that I go watch these days, I don't care for those setups that are too big for the venue ... just not the best tone, IMO
however, there are players who have a clean, or Fusion type tone, and use big amps, but they usually moderate the volume with either pedals, or a second amp for overdrive ... Sonny Landreth being an example of blues tone; Larry Carlton being an example of a Fusion tone
Oldslowhand
New member
Re: how much wattage do you *need*?
Has anyone seen the Clapton Crossroads DVD most where using 50 watt 2 x 12 combo's(including ZZ Top), and Clapton was using the cornford Hurricane a massive 30 watts( ok it's a class A amp). There was of course the odd half stack but this was the 'cream' of the worlds best Guitarists in a stadium and they all had all the tone & volume they needed from just a line of small amps.
Has anyone seen the Clapton Crossroads DVD most where using 50 watt 2 x 12 combo's(including ZZ Top), and Clapton was using the cornford Hurricane a massive 30 watts( ok it's a class A amp). There was of course the odd half stack but this was the 'cream' of the worlds best Guitarists in a stadium and they all had all the tone & volume they needed from just a line of small amps.
That90'sGuy
DyzaBoyzologist
Re: how much wattage do you *need*?
100W is good for some people because a) more headroom typically and b) bigger frequency
With that said, odds of having really good power tube saturation?... not very high
Realistic application for most players? Unless you're doing heavy touring... no
Me? I am happy with a 30w combo and I've had no problem cutting through moderately loud drummers. I've played with some drummers where you absolutely *needed* 100w to cut through (thank God I had the H&K Triamp at the time).
The db change between 50 and 100w is only about 3 db, so it isn't a huge difference. Me? I may eventually go to 20w for small to medium size gigs and if for some strange reason I play a bigger venue, they can just mic my amp through the PA, it will certainly cover more area than a 100w amp blasted by itself.
100W is good for some people because a) more headroom typically and b) bigger frequency
With that said, odds of having really good power tube saturation?... not very high
Realistic application for most players? Unless you're doing heavy touring... no
Me? I am happy with a 30w combo and I've had no problem cutting through moderately loud drummers. I've played with some drummers where you absolutely *needed* 100w to cut through (thank God I had the H&K Triamp at the time).
The db change between 50 and 100w is only about 3 db, so it isn't a huge difference. Me? I may eventually go to 20w for small to medium size gigs and if for some strange reason I play a bigger venue, they can just mic my amp through the PA, it will certainly cover more area than a 100w amp blasted by itself.
TwilightOdyssey
Darkness on the edge of Tone
Re: how much wattage do you *need*?
Nothing like that "cupped hands over mouth" tone you get from being played through a crappy horn loaded PA ... now, that's some killer tone for ya! :laugh2:the_Chris said:
straightblues
New member
Re: how much wattage do you *need*?
Nobody needs to play louder than about 20 watts. It is the clean sounds versus dirty sounds that gets people. If you want 20 watts of clean power, you need a 50+ watt amp to deliver it. But a 50 watt amp won't deliver the dirty tones at 20 watts unless it has a master volume. If you use a master volume amp and like the way it sounds, get however many watts you want, but you will still only need about 20 of them.
Anything after 20 watts will have to be put throught the PA to be able to hear the drummer. (If your drummer is playing louder than that, tell him to settle down, there is no reason to hit the drums that hard.)
I use my Deluxe at 90% of the places I play. But, the first time I play somewhere or with new people, I always bring a Fender Bassman with a 2x12 cabinet along with me in case my Deluxe doesn't cut through.
Nobody needs to play louder than about 20 watts. It is the clean sounds versus dirty sounds that gets people. If you want 20 watts of clean power, you need a 50+ watt amp to deliver it. But a 50 watt amp won't deliver the dirty tones at 20 watts unless it has a master volume. If you use a master volume amp and like the way it sounds, get however many watts you want, but you will still only need about 20 of them.
Anything after 20 watts will have to be put throught the PA to be able to hear the drummer. (If your drummer is playing louder than that, tell him to settle down, there is no reason to hit the drums that hard.)
I use my Deluxe at 90% of the places I play. But, the first time I play somewhere or with new people, I always bring a Fender Bassman with a 2x12 cabinet along with me in case my Deluxe doesn't cut through.
S
Skarekrough
Guest
Re: how much wattage do you *need*?
I don't think there has been a statement made on this board that I could possibly disagree with more.
"Dynamic reserve" has absolutely nothing to do with it.
The more watts in a guitar amp you have the louder you can be. By the same token the bigger the PA whatever's going through it can be as louder as well.
The smaller the wattage of your amp the easier it is to get it to break up at low volumes. The oppisite side of this is that certain classic sounds are based on amplifiers that operated at louder volumes.
Unless you're going for that specific sound then you really don't need that level of wattage.
By your "dynamic reserve" analogy the classic Fender 100 watt Twin amps should be what everyone on Gods Green Earth are striving for. They have headroom for days....and that's the problem with them. In order to get the classic "Twin" sound you need to crank the amp to a level that's deafening to 50 yards away. There's a reason why you always see vintage Twins being sold and traded; they're too damned loud for the application that most musicians would encounter!
Technically with a decent PA and some good monitors (and a soundguy that isn't nodding off) you could gig one of those little cigarette pack amps in a stadium setting and have it work just fine. If you like that sound then there is absolutely nothing in the equasion that would require that it put out more volume as long as you have it miced into a decent PA, a good monitor setup and, of course, the soundguy not nodding off.
If you think about it most Overdrive and Distortion pedals exist because amps have become too loud - look at what effect they acheive; they make an amp sound "cranked" or "dimed." There's plenty of little extras they provide as well. As a confirmed overdrive pedal junkie I certainly can't dismiss the necessity they have in a guitar players arsenal. But at a core level that's what they do; they make a non-cranked amp sound dimed (or, if you're doing it right, sound more dimed...as weird as that sounds).
I think probably at the crux of our impasse will be the question "Do you play your amps primarily to get good tone or do you play your amps primarily to be heard; which is your priority?"
To me, the priority is sounding good. I'll let the PA do the heavy lifting for me.....
TwilightOdyssey said:
I don't think there has been a statement made on this board that I could possibly disagree with more.
"Dynamic reserve" has absolutely nothing to do with it.
The more watts in a guitar amp you have the louder you can be. By the same token the bigger the PA whatever's going through it can be as louder as well.
The smaller the wattage of your amp the easier it is to get it to break up at low volumes. The oppisite side of this is that certain classic sounds are based on amplifiers that operated at louder volumes.
Unless you're going for that specific sound then you really don't need that level of wattage.
By your "dynamic reserve" analogy the classic Fender 100 watt Twin amps should be what everyone on Gods Green Earth are striving for. They have headroom for days....and that's the problem with them. In order to get the classic "Twin" sound you need to crank the amp to a level that's deafening to 50 yards away. There's a reason why you always see vintage Twins being sold and traded; they're too damned loud for the application that most musicians would encounter!
Technically with a decent PA and some good monitors (and a soundguy that isn't nodding off) you could gig one of those little cigarette pack amps in a stadium setting and have it work just fine. If you like that sound then there is absolutely nothing in the equasion that would require that it put out more volume as long as you have it miced into a decent PA, a good monitor setup and, of course, the soundguy not nodding off.
If you think about it most Overdrive and Distortion pedals exist because amps have become too loud - look at what effect they acheive; they make an amp sound "cranked" or "dimed." There's plenty of little extras they provide as well. As a confirmed overdrive pedal junkie I certainly can't dismiss the necessity they have in a guitar players arsenal. But at a core level that's what they do; they make a non-cranked amp sound dimed (or, if you're doing it right, sound more dimed...as weird as that sounds).
I think probably at the crux of our impasse will be the question "Do you play your amps primarily to get good tone or do you play your amps primarily to be heard; which is your priority?"
To me, the priority is sounding good. I'll let the PA do the heavy lifting for me.....
TwilightOdyssey
Darkness on the edge of Tone
Re: how much wattage do you *need*?
Good thing you're not excitable and prone to exaggeration! :laugh2:Skarekrough said:
Davey
Goliath of Tone
Re: how much wattage do you *need*?
umm.. 20W?? what have you been smokin and what do you play?
unless you're playing in a circle, everything needs to go through the PA, just so you hear the rest of the band, unless you play in your bedroom or for not over than 50 people that keep their mouths shut.
a cranked 50W halfstack is the absolute minimum if you want to play clubs that hold 200+ screaming people. if you play at a stadium you'll be lost.
what you say is, i need a 20W amp if i want to play in an arena where there are 80 thousand people there? are they supposed to shut up when i play so i can be heard?
there's a big diference playing in a church or at a BBQ to 30 people or playing a club or show that takes a load of people that want to party..
umm.. 20W?? what have you been smokin and what do you play?
unless you're playing in a circle, everything needs to go through the PA, just so you hear the rest of the band, unless you play in your bedroom or for not over than 50 people that keep their mouths shut.
a cranked 50W halfstack is the absolute minimum if you want to play clubs that hold 200+ screaming people. if you play at a stadium you'll be lost.
what you say is, i need a 20W amp if i want to play in an arena where there are 80 thousand people there? are they supposed to shut up when i play so i can be heard?
there's a big diference playing in a church or at a BBQ to 30 people or playing a club or show that takes a load of people that want to party..
ROFL, your're not serious, are you? BWAHAHAHAHAHA you been playing to 5 year old kids? or some 80 year old timers? geez... you ever been to a REAL concert?
